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Author Topic: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)  (Read 18738 times)

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November 10, 2014, 05:37:50 pm Reply #66

Offline vegolino

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: islandking on November 10, 2014, 03:57:41 pm

+1 As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of 3rd party DAC.
Would you do share drop percentage of your business to low value coin with small community  or would you shared drop to high value coin with big community?  For me answer is very simple from business point of view. Big community with a lot of developers will always be priority for any 3rd party DAC.
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November 10, 2014, 05:31:25 pm Reply #65

Offline gamey

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
I have a feeling they will not be continuing from NOV5 on the release chain.  :(   I hope I'm wrong but I am guessing we will see a song and dance about why they had to go with a later snapshot.  I would not be surprised if this act doesn't drive someone to make a pts user issued asset as the overhead will be minimal.

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November 10, 2014, 05:28:28 pm Reply #64

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: biophil on November 10, 2014, 05:10:45 pm
Quote from: GaltReport on November 10, 2014, 04:51:47 pm
Sure, let people do what they want.  It's a partly-free country ( :( )...but keeping the same name would be dishonest IMHO because it is not the same "coin" and doesn't represent the same value proposition.

What's different about the value proposition? It grants holders a 10% stake in new DACs. How is that different from the old PTS?

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It's not backed by the development nor funding of the AGS fund.
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November 10, 2014, 05:10:45 pm Reply #63

Offline biophil

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: GaltReport on November 10, 2014, 04:51:47 pm
Sure, let people do what they want.  It's a partly-free country ( :( )...but keeping the same name would be dishonest IMHO because it is not the same "coin" and doesn't represent the same value proposition.

What's different about the value proposition? It grants holders a 10% stake in new DACs. How is that different from the old PTS?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

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November 10, 2014, 04:51:47 pm Reply #62

Offline GaltReport

Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Sure, let people do what they want.  It's a partly-free country ( :( )...but keeping the same name would be dishonest IMHO because it is not the same "coin" and doesn't represent the same value proposition.
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November 10, 2014, 04:35:10 pm Reply #61

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Isn't this what Dan and Stan said would happen back in November of last year? Back on the old www.invictus-innovations.com website.

I remember them saying that DACs are resilient to death. If DACs were ever abandoned by their devs, large stakeholders would have incentive to keep that DAC going, since the code is open source.

I think this is just nature running its course, and should not be resisted.
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November 10, 2014, 03:57:41 pm Reply #60

Offline islandking

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: inarizushi on November 10, 2014, 03:55:01 pm
PTS still alive = more confusion and less people focused on a single product. That's not good for marketing.
I don't really care about PTS being kept alive, AlphaBar can do what he wants to, but by doing so it's obvious to me that he goes against the interests of BTS holders. PTS has nothing of value to offer now : 1) it doesn't represent the founders anymore (since so many people sold them), and 2) it has no useful functionality. If I am wrong on these 2 points, I'd be happy to reconsider. But if PTS don't represent people that helped build the ecosystem anymore, then they don't mean anything, and should be worthless.

+1 As a newbie myself it took me a few hours to figure it all out. Its extremely confusing and if 3rd parties start releasing share drops to PTS then it would hurt BTS in the long run.
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November 10, 2014, 03:55:01 pm Reply #59

Offline inarizushi

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
PTS still alive = more confusion and less people focused on a single product. That's not good for marketing.
I don't really care about PTS being kept alive, AlphaBar can do what he wants to, but by doing so it's obvious to me that he goes against the interests of BTS holders. PTS has nothing of value to offer now : 1) it doesn't represent the founders anymore (since so many people sold them), and 2) it has no useful functionality. If I am wrong on these 2 points, I'd be happy to reconsider. But if PTS don't represent people that helped build the ecosystem anymore, then they don't mean anything, and should be worthless.

In my point of view, the only reason alphaBar tries to keep PTS alive is an investment bet : he wants to earn some more money with his PTS and the one he probably bought at low price - money that, in my point of view, he doesn't deserve, as the BTS allocation already made PTS holders whole. I cannot see how maintaining a useless coin can generate any value for the community.

And I haven't even sold my PTS, assuming they would have no value after november 5th. I'll be happy to sell them if the price comes back up.
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November 10, 2014, 03:29:46 pm Reply #58

Offline ticklebiscuit

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: biophil on November 10, 2014, 03:13:15 pm
Quote from: bytemaster on November 10, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
You can clone the code, but must build your own network effect.

I say we let those who wish to continue PTS do so and wish them well.   I think it is a positive initiative.

Thanks for not being crazy, BM! It always makes me happy when you share my opinion :)

To all the anti-PTS people out there: it seems like the biggest argument against PTS is that somehow it will compete against BTS. This assumes that crypto is a zero-sum game, that the amount of wealth in crypto is fixed, that one coin's gain must come out of another coin's loss. Since when has the Bitshares community ever been so small-minded, so unambitious?

Everybody here should see the fallacy in the above thinking: if bitshares is the world-changing tech we all think it is, it will bring in more wealth than all other cryptos combined and PTS will be a tiny drop in the bucket in comparison. Do you really think that BTS is so fragile that its success will be threatened by a simple featureless DPOS chain?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Hehe...smart guy with vision.  Can tell you are probably here from the beginning!
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November 10, 2014, 03:13:15 pm Reply #57

Offline biophil

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: bytemaster on November 10, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
You can clone the code, but must build your own network effect.

I say we let those who wish to continue PTS do so and wish them well.   I think it is a positive initiative.

Thanks for not being crazy, BM! It always makes me happy when you share my opinion :)

To all the anti-PTS people out there: it seems like the biggest argument against PTS is that somehow it will compete against BTS. This assumes that crypto is a zero-sum game, that the amount of wealth in crypto is fixed, that one coin's gain must come out of another coin's loss. Since when has the Bitshares community ever been so small-minded, so unambitious?

Everybody here should see the fallacy in the above thinking: if bitshares is the world-changing tech we all think it is, it will bring in more wealth than all other cryptos combined and PTS will be a tiny drop in the bucket in comparison. Do you really think that BTS is so fragile that its success will be threatened by a simple featureless DPOS chain?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

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November 10, 2014, 03:12:11 pm Reply #56

Offline kingslanding

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
I support keeping PTS alive 100%.  I picture in the near future new DACs coming out almost every week, much like the alt coins.  So there will be much more people wanting in well after BTS has been established.  PTS would be the easiest way for new investors to climb aboard.  This would give even more validity & value to BTS.  BTS would represent the blue-chip DAC much like bitcoin is to the alts.  Plus, it would give liquidity to BTS to use it's hoard of PTS for future dev work.
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November 10, 2014, 03:00:08 pm Reply #55

Offline cass

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: bytemaster on November 10, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
You can clone the code, but must build your own network effect.

I say we let those who wish to continue PTS do so and wish them well.   I think it is a positive initiative.

 +5%
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November 10, 2014, 02:51:18 pm Reply #54

Offline fuzzy

Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: bytemaster on November 10, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
You can clone the code, but must build your own network effect.

I say we let those who wish to continue PTS do so and wish them well.   I think it is a positive initiative.

Me too.  Do you think it might be advantageous though to rename it?  Perhaps snapshot PTS/AGS 50/50 and create "AlphaShares" or something like that?  Heck maybe even snapshot BTS/PTS/AGS 33.3/33.3/33.3?
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November 10, 2014, 02:15:54 pm Reply #53

Offline bytemaster

Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
You can clone the code, but must build your own network effect.

I say we let those who wish to continue PTS do so and wish them well.   I think it is a positive initiative.
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November 10, 2014, 02:12:28 pm Reply #52

Offline Ben Mason

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Re: Long live the social consensus, long live PTS! (Stay tuned)
Quote from: ticklebiscuit on November 10, 2014, 01:58:06 pm
Ethereum will probably clone bts and showed interest in honoring AGS/PTS with new versions...

SuperDACs can be cloned too...

Super DAC's can be cloned but why would you unless you were doing something significant, in which case you would want to snapshot significantly to the original.....
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