Decentralizing Mining - The future of BitShares Mining

[bytemaster]

I know this might be off topic or whatever but Master, have you considered telling infowars/prison planet more about this. They do advertising for bitcoins and I think your amazing concepts and morals would prove true to the informed community. I really appreciate all the work you do, keep it up. This could be the engine you guys need. Everyone will want keyhotee because it is practical in todays world(assuming all goes well)

Once we have a stable client out there I believe that would be a good audience to target.  Right now we are in early development phases, though with the advent of Angel Shares and the new bounty system things could be speeding up quite a bit. 

[bretthuda33]

I know this might be off topic or whatever but Master, have you considered telling infowars/prison planet more about this. They do advertising for bitcoins and I think your amazing concepts and morals would prove true to the informed community. I really appreciate all the work you do, keep it up. This could be the engine you guys need. Everyone will want keyhotee because it is practical in todays world(assuming all goes well)

[bytemaster]

I have come up with a new approach using proof-of-stake that could make mining as we know it irrelevant.   

Please read this thread: http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.0

I just came across this thread today and let me tell you that I believe that there are a large number of us that have invested in the long term potential of crypto equities. That being said, I think that you should go ahead with introducing a 6 month vesting period.

Those of us like myself that see the true potential of crypto equities will do just about anything to get our hands on more Protoshares, Bitshares etc. I am willing to mine for 6 months without any instant gratification. You should move forward with a 6 month vesting period for Bitshares. I think that will be most fair to those of us that actually FUND the progression of this technology. A person that is in it for the long term will obtain Angelshares or donate Protoshares for the continued development and implementation of something like Kehotee ID.

By the way if we obtain Protoshares after the release of Bitshares are we still able to get Bitshares just by getting more Protoshares?

Since writing this we have opted to move to Ripple Style Consensus combined with Proof of Stake.  There will be no need to mine BitShares.

The only way to get BitShares is to either make donations to the Angel addresses or to buy PTS prior to the genesis block.  Afterward you have to buy BitShares from someone who has them.

[jae208]

I have come up with a new approach using proof-of-stake that could make mining as we know it irrelevant.   

Please read this thread: http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.0

I just came across this thread today and let me tell you that I believe that there are a large number of us that have invested in the long term potential of crypto equities. That being said, I think that you should go ahead with introducing a 6 month vesting period.

Those of us like myself that see the true potential of crypto equities will do just about anything to get our hands on more Protoshares, Bitshares etc. I am willing to mine for 6 months without any instant gratification. You should move forward with a 6 month vesting period for Bitshares. I think that will be most fair to those of us that actually FUND the progression of this technology. A person that is in it for the long term will obtain Angelshares or donate Protoshares for the continued development and implementation of something like Kehotee ID.

By the way if we obtain Protoshares after the release of Bitshares are we still able to get Bitshares just by getting more Protoshares?

[bytemaster]

I have come up with a new approach using proof-of-stake that could make mining as we know it irrelevant.   

Please read this thread: http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.0

[Pocket Sand]

Thank you your clearing that out, Pocket Sand! 

Not a problem man

[robozombie]

Thank you your clearing that out, Pocket Sand! 

[Pocket Sand]

There is no 'conversion' between ProtoShares and BitShares... everyone will immediately have BOTH ProtoShares and BitShares.  Your BitShares are kind of a 'dividend payment' on your ProtoShares .    Therefore, there is no cost or conversion to create BitShares from ProtoShares and in fact your ProtoShares will remain valuable for future DACs.

Hi, Daniel! Quick question: will Bitshares value be awarded to the same Protoshares address or through a Bitshares address? If the latter, how could one (assuming one has PTS accumulated) claim the 1:1 value? Thanks!

I can answer this one for you, Daniel had mentioned earlier that you will be able to import your PTS wallet with your BTS wallet and receive one bitshare for every protoshare you hold while still maintaining all your Protoshares. So basically if you had 100 Protoshares when bitshares are released, you'd import your wallet and you'd now have 100 Protoshares and 100 Bitshares.

[robozombie]

There is no 'conversion' between ProtoShares and BitShares... everyone will immediately have BOTH ProtoShares and BitShares.  Your BitShares are kind of a 'dividend payment' on your ProtoShares .    Therefore, there is no cost or conversion to create BitShares from ProtoShares and in fact your ProtoShares will remain valuable for future DACs.

Hi, Daniel! Quick question: will Bitshares value be awarded to the same Protoshares address or through a Bitshares address? If the latter, how could one (assuming one has PTS accumulated) claim the 1:1 value? Thanks!

[bytemaster]

Value drives price, price doesn't drive value.  Today's price factors in all risks / rewards.

Todays price factors in all risk reward as they are understood by the market participants making decisions based on their personal factoring.  I would argue that means that unlike a normal cryptocurrency, the market is only as informed as you (the company doing the backing) make it.  You can control information, hide bad news, promote good news that will probably have an inordinately large impact on the price of the currency because the entire value depends on Invictus honoring the social contract.

So yes, and no.  When you put your entire corporate R&D, workflow etc. on Trello then the price will be informed by the fundamentals but so long as the only way the community gets data is via an official conduit (Bytemaster or Stan), you're the chokepoint for information on the future value of the currency.

The entire process is being developed in the open on Github.  Ideas we have are being published here. 

You are right, the market is information constrained and right now the price reflects the lack of understanding and information.  Which means that as the market learns more and we deliver more the price will go up.   Obviously it takes time and energy to get ideas out there. 

[Lighthouse]

Value drives price, price doesn't drive value.  Today's price factors in all risks / rewards.

Todays price factors in all risk reward as they are understood by the market participants making decisions based on their personal factoring.  I would argue that means that unlike a normal cryptocurrency, the market is only as informed as you (the company doing the backing) make it.  You can control information, hide bad news, promote good news that will probably have an inordinately large impact on the price of the currency because the entire value depends on Invictus honoring the social contract.

So yes, and no.  When you put your entire corporate R&D, workflow etc. on Trello then the price will be informed by the fundamentals but so long as the only way the community gets data is via an official conduit (Bytemaster or Stan), you're the chokepoint for information on the future value of the currency.

[barwizi]

The value of PTS is based upon the future value of the DAC ideas that Invictus is developing.

The current value of PTS equals its price. That's what the price is.

You can only hope that PTS's value will rise because of other DACs.

Anyone seeking a profit can make more mining and selling than by a 51% attack.

This may be true today. This won't be true in March. Or whenever the block reward is going to be like 1 PTS.
Profitable mining ends *very* fast. That's the way you designed this coin.

Value drives price, price doesn't drive value.  Today's price factors in all risks / rewards.

i think we need ideas to prop up value/price regardless

[bytemaster]

The value of PTS is based upon the future value of the DAC ideas that Invictus is developing.

The current value of PTS equals its price. That's what the price is.

You can only hope that PTS's value will rise because of other DACs.

Anyone seeking a profit can make more mining and selling than by a 51% attack.

This may be true today. This won't be true in March. Or whenever the block reward is going to be like 1 PTS.
Profitable mining ends *very* fast. That's the way you designed this coin.

Value drives price, price doesn't drive value.  Today's price factors in all risks / rewards. 

[iruu]

The value of PTS is based upon the future value of the DAC ideas that Invictus is developing.

The current value of PTS equals its price. That's what the price is.

You can only hope that PTS's value will rise because of other DACs.

Anyone seeking a profit can make more mining and selling than by a 51% attack.

This may be true today. This won't be true in March. Or whenever the block reward is going to be like 1 PTS.
Profitable mining ends *very* fast. That's the way you designed this coin.

[bytemaster]

Another minor problem is that it's impossible to know the cost of a 51% attack. For a botnet operator it can be zero if he has no idea how to use his zombies differently at the moment. For a coin to be secure it should be very hard to amass a botnet with enough power.

The cost of a 51% attack is in the opportunity cost for the Botnet operator.  Botnet operators are seeking profit and mining and dumping legitimately is more profitable than mining to support a double spend that would crash the currency.   They would be killing the golden goose that is laying the PTS eggs for them to sell on BTC38.   

Anyone seeking a profit can make more mining and selling than by a 51% attack.