Author Topic: Fee Adjustments  (Read 7048 times)

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Offline Akado

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An idea:

Higher fees for anonymous (stealth and blinded) transactions.
Reason: It is a "cost" for the network because voting isnt possible when using these tx types.

Thoughts?

Makes sense to have them a little higher than normal transactions, the problem is, we still need somewhat reasonable fees even for the most basic of transactions simply to prevent spam.
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Offline santaclause102

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An idea:

Higher fees for anonymous (stealth and blinded) transactions.
Reason: It is a "cost" for the network because voting isnt possible when using these tx types.

Thoughts?

Offline alt

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I will continue use BTS wallet as an exchange,and I think it will be a great exchange.
but I will try not to use it for transfer. 
we need to focus on the exchange business, help the gateways. 
and we should give up the payment business(at least in Chinese). I don't want to pay for the higher transfer fee, I don't need to see the damn ad, because I have alipay and so many banks support free transfer.

Ok, if we must keep high fee, I'll look Bts as an exchange.
Hope OL, CCEDK, DACX, TRANSWISER, BLOCKTRADE can do their best.

Fees should remain high enough for Bitshares to have enough revenue to fuel it's components. If you want cheaper fees, use ad revenue to pay for it and go with a freemium model.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 11:34:48 pm by alt »

Offline luckybit

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Ok, if we must keep high fee, I'll look Bts as an exchange.
Hope OL, CCEDK, DACX, TRANSWISER, BLOCKTRADE can do their best.

Fees should remain high enough for Bitshares to have enough revenue to fuel it's components. If you want cheaper fees, use ad revenue to pay for it and go with a freemium model.
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Offline alt

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Ok, if we must keep high fee, I'll look Bts as an exchange.
Hope OL, CCEDK, DACX, TRANSWISER, BLOCKTRADE can do their best.

chryspano

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I have no opinion in this but we must be carefull not to kill the referal system by reducing the fee, feathercoin and worlcoin and a ton of other "coins" had small fees but where are they today? at place 100th of coinmarketcap,  low fees alone are worthless.

Offline BTSdac

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Even if we can resolve this by just voting, the different perspectives shown in this thread work in people minds to enrich their decisions.

I do agree that we need to be profitable as a DAC and fees play an critical role.
I also don't have the scientific proof that if we lower the fees transfers will climb.

(Maybe there is no high amount of transfers because we are not ready (yet) for mainstream users, and bitcoiners don't like us much (yet) ) 

Having said that $0.2 USD transfer fees make some project unviable.

Im pushing Bitshares for a joint effort of two NGOs and the local crypto community which one the objectives is to provide entrepreneurs from marginal economies with a way to use digital cash. (Its a bigger project ex-Worldbank, ex-UN people working on it)
 
Basically they will be moving an IOU, but $3.2 ARS is too much for the average size of that transactions. ($30-$50)

One of the founders of http://www.rootstock.io/ is heavily involved in the project also, so that platform is on the table also even if its on alpha stage.

Another issue is the order placement fee in the DEX, but i read that with lifetime subscription the fees goes down to something like 2 BTS? So that will be fine to bootstrap the DEX.
I think the transfer is 4 times of trade fee ,it is unreasonable ,
user just transfer bts or IOU  several times  one months , they cannot to update life-time member ,  so they have to pay 0.2$ per transfer ,
it mean bts give up small amount  transfer , small amount transfer cannot bring bts much transfer fee ,but the can bring bts many user ,
user is very important thing .
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Offline ElMato

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Even if we can resolve this by just voting, the different perspectives shown in this thread work in people minds to enrich their decisions.

I do agree that we need to be profitable as a DAC and fees play an critical role.
I also don't have the scientific proof that if we lower the fees transfers will climb.

(Maybe there is no high amount of transfers because we are not ready (yet) for mainstream users, and bitcoiners don't like us much (yet) ) 

Having said that $0.2 USD transfer fees make some project unviable.

Im pushing Bitshares for a joint effort of two NGOs and the local crypto community which one the objectives is to provide entrepreneurs from marginal economies with a way to use digital cash. (Its a bigger project ex-Worldbank, ex-UN people working on it)
 
Basically they will be moving an IOU, but $3.2 ARS is too much for the average size of that transactions. ($30-$50)

One of the founders of http://www.rootstock.io/ is heavily involved in the project also, so that platform is on the table also even if its on alpha stage.

Another issue is the order placement fee in the DEX, but i read that with lifetime subscription the fees goes down to something like 2 BTS? So that will be fine to bootstrap the DEX.

Offline fav

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if you lower fees in general there's no need for lifetime accounts. no lifetime accounts no marketers. no marketers, have fun with your low fees, you'll never see more users.

things are not so simple, suppose user A do 1 transfer one day under 20BTS fee, but do 10 transfers under 4BTS fee, he will generate 2 times revenue to his referrer in lower fee conditions.

and I don't think "We only need fees to be competitive with centralized exchanges" is good idea, we need reasonable fees,  it should be high enough, but not too high to get enough transactions.

in theory. but BTS1 had low TX too, so you can't expect any more than that.

Offline bitcrab

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if you lower fees in general there's no need for lifetime accounts. no lifetime accounts no marketers. no marketers, have fun with your low fees, you'll never see more users.

things are not so simple, suppose user A do 1 transfer one day under 20BTS fee, but do 10 transfers under 4BTS fee, he will generate 2 times revenue to his referrer in lower fee conditions.

and I don't think "We only need fees to be competitive with centralized exchanges" is good idea, we need reasonable fees,  it should be high enough, but not too high to get enough transactions.
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Offline Troglodactyl

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I would set the fees back to their initial 2.0 values at least until the rising value in BTS has them back around 20 cents and then reevaluate whether to update them to maintain that level.  I don't think people can be expected to pay as much to use the network until its value and utility are recognized, and that recognition requires that people feel free to experiment with the network.

I will likely create a committee member eventually, but the last few weeks I've been short of time and haven't caught up on all of that yet.

Offline Thom

And BM never addressed puppies question. What sense does it make to increase the fees for publishing price feeds? It just erodes witness pay. Granted they get back 80% of it but if publishing feeds is only possible through voted in witnesses with LTMs why not minimize their costs?
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Offline fav

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total costs of bts2/ numbers of transaction =per transaction  cost

now  total costs of bts2 is stable 

but  numbers of transaction  is very very very low
I  guess  the numbers of transaction   is less than price feed

It is totally  waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

proof it.

check some random blocks on bitsharesblocks.com and tell me there is a significant number of txs.

block 200.000 - 200.005 zero TX
block 300.000 - 300.005 zero TX

BitShares never had many transactions in my opinion.

Offline sudo

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total costs of bts2/ numbers of transaction =per transaction  cost

now  total costs of bts2 is stable 

but  numbers of transaction  is very very very low
I  guess  the numbers of transaction   is less than price feed

It is totally  waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Chris4210

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I also think that the ~40 bts right now are to much for transaction fees. That can cost you a lot of money in the longterm and makes micro transactions completely impossible.

Are these 40 bts also charged for UIA transfers? Does that mean that a Miles& More Network needs to pay 40 bts everytime they want to send some credits to their users? that will be costly...

I would welcome a pool for the next mumble and ask the most active shareholders about their opinion. After that we can take the witnesses to vote on that topic.

Since the bts value is so low, we can also lower to fees for now. I do not see a problem to rise them back to 40 bts in the future.

cheers
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