Author Topic: Lets bring " earn x% interest on 'anything' " back to Bitshares!  (Read 33176 times)

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Offline fractalnode

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If you reward a short sale, you increase the price of the BTS
If you pay interest for everyone who has bitAssets, then you will create bitAsset buy wall,
which will make it difficult to increase the BTS price.

That's why I do not like this idea.
But I think it would be most beneficial to pay dividends depending on the amount of collateral and open orders on DEX and only for LTM.
It should also be easier to implement.

Similar ideas were discussed here:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23706.0.html

Anyway, first we have to be able to pay dividends or any other kind of simple profit sharing

« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 04:12:39 pm by FractalNode »

Offline R

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How much "interest" do our miners make daily?  Do they want to share it with the users of their chain?

Or do they choose to keep all the freshly created BTS for themselves?

Your questions were answered long ago when you chose not to subsidize liquidity, and so the capable man who wanted to code liquidity incentives for us for free, left.

Back then (before we voted to give our miners a raise) we said it would be too dillutive to incentivize market makers.  How hypocritical are we?
Witnesses (what you're referring to as miners) draw funds from the reserve pool, we're talking about reallocating fees for the purpose of profit sharing for asset holders.
The guy that left wasn't going to do it for free.
Who cares about the hypocracy of others for past forgotten conversations? The point of this thread is to look forwards not backwards.

Offline sahkan

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...are backed 100% by actual assets in our reserve account.

lol, what could possible go wrong here?
Yes, a lot. I don't negate that.

Offline JonnyB

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Bitassets are derivative contracts

Derivatives contracts are assets
I run the @bitshares twitter handle
twitter.com/bitshares

Offline yvv

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I want 1000 SILVER without interest even -1% interest, can anybody sell SILVER to me?

you don't need to encourage the shorter or the longer, you need to encourage the traders, reward the traders.
liquid is the real problem we need to resolve.
with good liquid, more people will accept holder bitasset, more people will accept shorter bitasset. this is what happened today in bitCNY/bitUSD

I will ask people borrow CNY/USD/SILVER..., and be a market maker in pairs: CNY/USD, USD/SILVER, CNY/SILVER,
and this will give you more profit than the poor interest.

Most new comers to DEX do not understand very well how bitAssets work. For example in my mind BitSilver should be backed by Silver (not BTS) and a broker of that asset should provide liquidity (maybe 1% over and 1% under the spot price for buy/sell). If I can't buy and sell at the current real market price or get that silver shipped to me, then what's the point of holding it?
You want exposer to the value of silver not the actual metal. If you truly want silver go out and buy some physical silver. That applies to all the assests on the DEX. You are exposed to the underlining assets value, not physical properties. These are derivatives. Also if the value depended on a 3rd party having the physical good then that introduces counterparts risk and adds centralization which is goes against being a DEX.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed. On the other hand if I get bitSILVER I am making a bet that it will go up and since I can't get real silver out of it it's not really an asset, is it?

Yes, it is really an asset. No, it is not silver or something backed by silver. It is an asset which value is pegged to value of silver.

I know some of the long time members here have strong feelings about bitAssets, I am not trying to change that. But atm I don't see it as an asset.

And here is some other people view it: http://coinjournal.net/what-is-a-bitasset/  A bitasset is basically a derivative built on top of a cryptocurrency through the use of smart contracts. As a simple explanation, it’s useful to think of it as a bet...

No feelings has nothing to do with this. BitAsset is a derivative, and it is an asset, as good as many other assets in real world.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=asset+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Quote
as·set
ˈaset/
noun
noun: asset; plural noun: assets

    a useful or valuable thing, person, or quality.

Offline fav

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...are backed 100% by actual assets in our reserve account.

lol, what could possible go wrong here?

Maybe the bank could block them... Oh wait that's currently happening

chryspano

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...are backed 100% by actual assets in our reserve account.

lol, what could possible go wrong here?

Offline sahkan

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I want 1000 SILVER without interest even -1% interest, can anybody sell SILVER to me?

you don't need to encourage the shorter or the longer, you need to encourage the traders, reward the traders.
liquid is the real problem we need to resolve.
with good liquid, more people will accept holder bitasset, more people will accept shorter bitasset. this is what happened today in bitCNY/bitUSD

I will ask people borrow CNY/USD/SILVER..., and be a market maker in pairs: CNY/USD, USD/SILVER, CNY/SILVER,
and this will give you more profit than the poor interest.

Most new comers to DEX do not understand very well how bitAssets work. For example in my mind BitSilver should be backed by Silver (not BTS) and a broker of that asset should provide liquidity (maybe 1% over and 1% under the spot price for buy/sell). If I can't buy and sell at the current real market price or get that silver shipped to me, then what's the point of holding it?
You want exposer to the value of silver not the actual metal. If you truly want silver go out and buy some physical silver. That applies to all the assests on the DEX. You are exposed to the underlining assets value, not physical properties. These are derivatives. Also if the value depended on a 3rd party having the physical good then that introduces counterparts risk and adds centralization which is goes against being a DEX.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed. On the other hand if I get bitSILVER I am making a bet that it will go up and since I can't get real silver out of it it's not really an asset, is it?

Yes, it is really an asset. No, it is not silver or something backed by silver. It is an asset which value is pegged to value of silver.

I know some of the long time members here have strong feelings about bitAssets, I am not trying to change that. But atm I don't see it as an asset.

And here is some other people view it: http://coinjournal.net/what-is-a-bitasset/  A bitasset is basically a derivative built on top of a cryptocurrency through the use of smart contracts. As a simple explanation, it’s useful to think of it as a bet...

Offline sahkan

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No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed.

wrong, tether is not backed.

Quote
PURCHASE AND REDEMPTION OF TETHERS: The Site is an environment for the purchase and redemption of Tethers. Once you have Tethers, you can trade them, keep them, or use them to pay persons that will accept your Tethers. However, Tethers are not money and are not monetary instruments. They are also not stored value or currency.
There is no contractual right or other right or legal claim against us to redeem or exchange your Tethers for money. We do not guarantee any right of redemption or exchange of Tethers by us for money. There is no guarantee against losses when you buy, trade, sell, or redeem Tethers.

@fav I like your attention to detail. But ...

All tethers are pegged at one-to-one with matching fiat currency (e.g., 1 USD₮ = 1 USD) and are backed 100% by actual assets in our reserve account. As a fully transparent company, we publish a real-time record of all value held and transferred in and out of our reserve account.

Tethers can be securely stored, sent and received across the blockchain and are redeemable for cash (the underlying asset) pursuant to Tether Limited’s terms of service.


What you quoted is their Term of Service where they state that they do not have a contractual obligation to exchange USDT to any currency. But that does not change the fact that it is still backed 1 to 1.

Offline mf-tzo

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what about the following:

bitasset holders should earn a daily interest depending on the peg? i.e. if bitusd / usd peg is 1.05 / 1 bitusd holders earn 5% if bitgold / gold is 1.2 / 1 bitgold holders earn 20%.

At the same time people who short bitassets earn the respective % in bts yield. Those who short bitgold putting bts collateral and assuming bitgold/gold to 20% away from peg should earn 20% bts daily yield in their bts collateral..

I haven't thought this through, just throwing an idea that just came out of my head before I forget it.

 

Offline R

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so who's formulating the idea and approaching blockpay.ch (via email)?

so... anyone?

Why not you fav? Your idea, take it and run with it. Just think, if you put the same effort into writing ken an email to look at key posts in this thread you believe are convincing, the task you're requesting others to do would already be done.

I know @kenCode and his team have a full plate of work, so I am doubtful on that basis alone he'll be interested in taking this on, but it never hurts to ask. IMO it's a worthy project that has great potential. Whether he agrees or wants to invest the effort to assess the code and then get a proposal written is any one's guess but his.
We could all discuss it in the next Bitshares hangout in person too.

find a dev > get a quotation > then discuss > get shit done

or discuss on a hangout and spin in cycles like this thread.
And we can't get 'dev > quote > discuss > get shit down' done in a hangout instead of emailing a single company?  I believe that the Bitshares hangouts are tremendously productive and more effective than emails.

Offline yvv

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I want 1000 SILVER without interest even -1% interest, can anybody sell SILVER to me?

you don't need to encourage the shorter or the longer, you need to encourage the traders, reward the traders.
liquid is the real problem we need to resolve.
with good liquid, more people will accept holder bitasset, more people will accept shorter bitasset. this is what happened today in bitCNY/bitUSD

I will ask people borrow CNY/USD/SILVER..., and be a market maker in pairs: CNY/USD, USD/SILVER, CNY/SILVER,
and this will give you more profit than the poor interest.

Most new comers to DEX do not understand very well how bitAssets work. For example in my mind BitSilver should be backed by Silver (not BTS) and a broker of that asset should provide liquidity (maybe 1% over and 1% under the spot price for buy/sell). If I can't buy and sell at the current real market price or get that silver shipped to me, then what's the point of holding it?
You want exposer to the value of silver not the actual metal. If you truly want silver go out and buy some physical silver. That applies to all the assests on the DEX. You are exposed to the underlining assets value, not physical properties. These are derivatives. Also if the value depended on a 3rd party having the physical good then that introduces counterparts risk and adds centralization which is goes against being a DEX.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed. On the other hand if I get bitSILVER I am making a bet that it will go up and since I can't get real silver out of it it's not really an asset, is it?

Yes, it is really an asset. No, it is not silver or something backed by silver. It is an asset which value is pegged to value of silver.

Offline Pheonike

I want 1000 SILVER without interest even -1% interest, can anybody sell SILVER to me?

you don't need to encourage the shorter or the longer, you need to encourage the traders, reward the traders.
liquid is the real problem we need to resolve.
with good liquid, more people will accept holder bitasset, more people will accept shorter bitasset. this is what happened today in bitCNY/bitUSD

I will ask people borrow CNY/USD/SILVER..., and be a market maker in pairs: CNY/USD, USD/SILVER, CNY/SILVER,
and this will give you more profit than the poor interest.

Most new comers to DEX do not understand very well how bitAssets work. For example in my mind BitSilver should be backed by Silver (not BTS) and a broker of that asset should provide liquidity (maybe 1% over and 1% under the spot price for buy/sell). If I can't buy and sell at the current real market price or get that silver shipped to me, then what's the point of holding it?
You want exposer to the value of silver not the actual metal. If you truly want silver go out and buy some physical silver. That applies to all the assests on the DEX. You are exposed to the underlining assets value, not physical properties. These are derivatives. Also if the value depended on a 3rd party having the physical good then that introduces counterparts risk and adds centralization which is goes against being a DEX.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed. On the other hand if I get bitSILVER I am making a bet that it will go up and since I can't get real silver out of it it's not really an asset, is it?

Do you want the asset or the cash equivalent?  Once you get into fiat and physical you will always have a counter party risk.  So you have to decide do which do you trust more, the blockchain or or another party to secure and maintain the asset for you.

Offline fav

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No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed.

wrong, tether is not backed.

Quote
PURCHASE AND REDEMPTION OF TETHERS: The Site is an environment for the purchase and redemption of Tethers. Once you have Tethers, you can trade them, keep them, or use them to pay persons that will accept your Tethers. However, Tethers are not money and are not monetary instruments. They are also not stored value or currency.
There is no contractual right or other right or legal claim against us to redeem or exchange your Tethers for money. We do not guarantee any right of redemption or exchange of Tethers by us for money. There is no guarantee against losses when you buy, trade, sell, or redeem Tethers.

Offline sahkan

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I want 1000 SILVER without interest even -1% interest, can anybody sell SILVER to me?

you don't need to encourage the shorter or the longer, you need to encourage the traders, reward the traders.
liquid is the real problem we need to resolve.
with good liquid, more people will accept holder bitasset, more people will accept shorter bitasset. this is what happened today in bitCNY/bitUSD

I will ask people borrow CNY/USD/SILVER..., and be a market maker in pairs: CNY/USD, USD/SILVER, CNY/SILVER,
and this will give you more profit than the poor interest.

Most new comers to DEX do not understand very well how bitAssets work. For example in my mind BitSilver should be backed by Silver (not BTS) and a broker of that asset should provide liquidity (maybe 1% over and 1% under the spot price for buy/sell). If I can't buy and sell at the current real market price or get that silver shipped to me, then what's the point of holding it?
You want exposer to the value of silver not the actual metal. If you truly want silver go out and buy some physical silver. That applies to all the assests on the DEX. You are exposed to the underlining assets value, not physical properties. These are derivatives. Also if the value depended on a 3rd party having the physical good then that introduces counterparts risk and adds centralization which is goes against being a DEX.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No, I don't want exposure to the price. I want to invest in an asset, so if get USDT I am sure to get $1 for my 1 USDT because it's backed. On the other hand if I get bitSILVER I am making a bet that it will go up and since I can't get real silver out of it it's not really an asset, is it?