Author Topic: Why are market-makers reluctant to make a tighter market?  (Read 10208 times)

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Offline alt

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Offline bytemaster

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Offline bytemaster

I mean sell remaining btc.  Keeping pts and btsx
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Offline alt

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If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

 +5% I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!

We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX.    We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD.   

Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.
Please keep  BTSX and PTS, you should sell these at more higher price.
If you sell all BTC for USD, buy bitUSD with these USD is enough for now.

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If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

 +5% I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!

We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX.    We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD.   

Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.

I will be more than happy with converting even 50% of the AGS to bitUSD.... and the rest from BTC to BTSX...but if you really plan to do that is, it's much better... I do not really know if Pluton is a planet or just a reference point.   :)

Offline Overthetop

I've started using bitUSD as my savings account. The money is only a couple days away and it kicks the living tar out of my checking account (yield is so low on savings accounts it's just not worth the hassle).

Besides if I'm not putting my money where my mouth is than what are we talking about? Time to get on board for real.

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 +5%
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Offline BTSdac

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There is no interest for unbit , and only can buy at 1.01usd, sell at 0.99usd,    buyer must lost money when he buy ,and the big risk is the seller steal usd and run.
but why there are much volume , the mainly reason is the trasnlation is  unbit/BTC, becasue of price wave of btc. it is like gain money through translation unbit , compare with hold usd with any operation,no matter how smart you are to translate with unbit. you must lost USD.  so it is a false appearance.

PS : if open bitusd/btc  there are more volume than unbit.   because  bitusd will have interest .
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 03:37:28 am by BTSdac »
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Offline Riverhead

if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX.    We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD.   

Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.


Certainly makes me feel better using bitUSD as a savings account.  +5%
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 03:34:14 am by Riverhead »

Offline 天籁

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 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

 +5% I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!

We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX.    We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD.   

Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries.

Offline bytemaster


If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

 +5% I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!

We are planning on converting all remaining AGS funds to BitUSD and paying salaries from the BitUSD with the goal to scale the burn rate so the interest earned on the BitUSD is able to sustain the development team for BTSX.    We are also moving to pay everyone on the team in BitUSD.   

Those of us on the team are willing to accept it a par value for prior salaries. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Mysto

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If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

 +5% I agree with this. We have to start somewhere and this would be a great starting place!

Offline luckybit

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I'm not sure we have anything to offer those who do not have a saving habit.  If you are living hand to mouth with no savings at the end of the month, then by definition you would be selling your bitUSD as soon as you got it.  You would not be holding it for yield and you would not be worried about your government inflating away its value or confiscating your nest egg. 
I'm talking about a closed loop where people actually work in the Bitshares ecosystem, get paid in BitUSD, spend most of their BitUSD and save some of it.

If a janitor were working for BitUSD why wouldn't they save some of it?
I guess we could collect fees for the wages passing through our network, but is that really helping people?
That's not exactly what I had in mind. I don't think the goal should be to deliberately help people. The goal should be to create an ecosystem where people can help each other while earning BitUSD. There doesn't need to be any active effort except to make it easier for people to facilitate earning BitUSD.

For example if someone started a brick and mortar janitorial company where they go into commercial offices with their team of people and clean up then they should be encouraged to use BitUSD. Businesses or sole proprietors need a way to pay their employees or contracts in BitUSD/BitJYP/BitCNY or BitGLD.
Such people are better off getting paid in fiat wherever they can earn the most for their time, cashing their paycheck, and spending it with no fees of any kind.
If we have that attitude why would people who have jobs paying in fiat ever care about BitUSD or Bitcoin? They'll only care when the job they have pays in BitUSD or the new job they get is offering to pay in BitUSD. At that point they will investigate what BitUSD is and discover Bitshares. That is free marketing to anyone looking for work and also if we are getting paid in BitUSD then we show we trust the system enough ourselves.

Whether or not there is enough BitUSD flowing has a lot to do with how large the ecosystem of producers, service providers, merchants, but the problem is just telling merchants to accept BitUSD doesn't get the majority of the economy to accept it. What about their employees? What about the parent who could be paying their child's allowance in BitUSD? The ideal situation would be if we could convince businesses like Overstock to agree to pay it's employees using BitUSD because that would immediately get BitUSD to circulate.

So, I view BitUSD as the best place for savers to keep their savings.  This option is open to everybody who is able to save, so this is where it makes the most sense to place the on-ramp.
We agree BitUSD is a great place for savers. The problem is you cannot spread BitUSD like it's some commodity that people buy if it's supposed to be the ultimate digital version of USD. It has to spread viral and the way to make that happen is as simple as making it easy to pay employees/workers in BitUSD.

This way if any of us start businesses in the future we can set them up to pay higher salaries to people who accept BitUSD instead of USD for example. If workers get paid more if they accept BitUSD then they'll accept it and at the same time it would be subtle marketing by business owners. I think just accepting Bitcoin and immediately converting it to fiat doesn't support Bitcoin except to spend it which is why it's not much of a currency and isn't spreading viral but if people actually went to work one day and their boss offered to pay them in Bitcoin the polls I've seen show that a significant number of people actually want to get paid in Bitcoin despite it's volatility. http://www.coindesk.com/getting-paid-in-bitcoins/
Rather than engineering a thousand ways for different skill sets to earn bitUSD,
lets engineer just one way for all those skill sets to save. 

That's the most cost effective way to benefit everybody who can benefit.

Why not do both? The success of the dollar and reason everyone uses it (beside the fact that it is legal tender) is that you can get a job and it's always going to pay in dollars. This isn't going to change until Silicon Valley and the majority of the companies in the tech industry start paying in their own currencies, in Bitcoin or in BitUSD. If a tech entrepreneur offered their employees the option to get paid in BitUSD I'm sure some of them would give it a try and if they find out the peg holds that is when they'll go all in.

I think yes we should market it to savers. I absolutely support that idea. I just think if money isn't flowing in from savers today and savers aren't paying attention to Bitcoin either it could be that they don't understand what it is because they don't have experience getting paid in it. I think if barbershops and casinos for example started paying their employee in BitUSD then it would spread viral pretty quick and it's an advantage for BitUSD because Bitcoin cannot make a good currency due to volatility.

I don't think the Bitshares team has to do much to make this happen I just think we need to balance out the on-ramps with the off-ramps. The Bitshares team does not have to directly hire people or create fake jobs it just has to encourage BitWage and similar companies to integrate BitUSD into their product. Then the product should be marketed to business owners who want to be able to hire tech workers internationally without having to deal with the expense of converting between different currencies or having workers wait weeks to get paid when they could be paid in real time.

I've started using bitUSD as my savings account. The money is only a couple days away and it kicks the living tar out of my checking account (yield is so low on savings accounts it's just not worth the hassle).

Besides if I'm not putting my money where my mouth is than what are we talking about? Time to get on board for real.

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This is a good start. We need some businesses to actually put their savings in BitUSD. We also need businesses to start paying employees in BitUSD so that all the employees can do the same.

It would be nice if Overstock could be made to pay it's employees in BitUSD instead of Overstock coin. It would be even better if large tech companies agree to pay their employees in BitUSD.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 12:32:45 am by luckybit »
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Offline Riverhead

I've started using bitUSD as my savings account. The money is only a couple days away and it kicks the living tar out of my checking account (yield is so low on savings accounts it's just not worth the hassle).

Besides if I'm not putting my money where my mouth is than what are we talking about? Time to get on board for real.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 12:23:35 am by Riverhead »

Offline Stan

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I think because we are in the early stages we put perhaps too much emphasis on BitUSD "adoption" when we should put more emphasis on using BitUSD ourselves. In order to do that we need ways to set up smart contracts or other means so that we can easily pay developers in BitUSD.

I think the future for BitUSD is bright but we have to use it before merchants will care about it. Bitcoin is slow to focus on payroll and paying wages because Bitcoin isn't good for that. BitUSD doesn't have to be slow at that because it's perfect for that.

So instead of focusing on where we can spend BitUSD we should focus on allowing people to earn it through DACs somehow so that more of us have some through earnings. It doesn't make a lot of sense why people would take regular USD out of their bank and buy BitUSD but it does make sense that people would work for BitUSD and then start using it.

I'm I am new to this space, never heard of Bitcoin before and I ask: "How can I earn some BitUSD?" what would I be told?

Good ideas here, but there is an overriding Universal Economic Truth that should be mentioned and you have created a "teachable moment" for us all:

Money is fungible.  If you want a certain kind of money, you should earn whatever kind of money you can earn most efficiently and then buy the kind of money you want to hold with it.

This is the idea behind the trend of "mining the most profitable asset, selling it, and using the proceeds to buy the most promising asset."

So, we shouldn't create low-value make-work tasks for earning bitUSD.  If the most profitable use of your time is shining shoes for Zimbabwe dollars, well, shine shoes for Zimbabwe dollars!  Then quickly sell and buy bitUSD, bitGLD, bitBTC or BTSX.  :)
How do we help people most efficiently earn BitUSD then? It's like analog to digital conversion or copying tape to tape in a studio where with each copy the signal quality reduces. The act of actually earning BitUSD is what conditions people to value BitUSD as they do USD. The same conditioning process would work for any of the other currencies supported by Bitshares X.

In my opinion if we want BitUSD to be used by everyone then instead of telling people to use Zimbabwe dollars before converting into BitUSD we should let them earn BitUSD or BitZWD directly. How else do you promote a currency if hardly anyone works for it directly?

Bitcoin is suffering from the same problem. Everyone says to buy Bitcoin but Bitcoin is volatile. If people said to work for Bitcoin then people wouldn't care as much about speculating with it. Bitcoin is volatile so people cannot save in it but with Bitshares X you can save your BitUSD as BitGLD.

So the idea is you want to get people to work to earn BitUSD (no matter if it's high or low value it's still activity which has some value), then store their savings in BitGLD. Mining for Bitshares could actually work to a certain extent for the mining community but if you want to bring the whole world into it then you have to market to the whole world.

If someone isn't from the USA then maybe they don't want BitUSD. Maybe they want to work and earn in their own currency. In order to market their own currency to them we need testimonials where people around the world are working and earning BitCNY, BitJPY, or whatever their local currency is.

This way if someone from here wants to start a business which is or is not a DAC then we can pay our employees in their local currency of choice easily. It doesn't really matter what the business is or how much money the business makes, it only matters that workers are exposed to and become accustomed to earning digital currency.

I hope we can avoid making the same mistakes Bitcoin made and actually encourage adoption by the working class (not just merchant class).  I think one problem I've identified with the current marketing is that it doesn't seem international in scope and the best way to make it international in scope is to translate into as many languages as possible while also launching all the different currencies so that people in these countries can pay their employees in BitAssets. I understand it's really early on in the development of this new industry but I think it should at least be a priority for each of us to try to reach a point in our lives where we earn all of our money in crypto-currency (BitUSD preferably) so that we can market the product by using it which is something the Bitcoin community isn't doing.

I'm not sure we have anything to offer those who do not have a saving habit.  If you are living hand to mouth with no savings at the end of the month, then by definition you would be selling your bitUSD as soon as you got it.  You would not be holding it for yield and you would not be worried about your government inflating away its value or confiscating your nest egg. 

I guess we could collect fees for the wages passing through our network, but is that really helping people?

Such people are better off getting paid in fiat wherever they can earn the most for their time, cashing their paycheck, and spending it with no fees of any kind.

So, I view BitUSD as the best place for savers to keep their savings.  This option is open to everybody who is able to save, so this is where it makes the most sense to place the on-ramp.

Rather than engineering a thousand ways for different skill sets to earn bitUSD,
lets engineer just one way for all those skill sets to save. 

That's the most cost effective way to benefit everybody who can benefit.



« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 10:31:19 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.