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Offline bytemaster

Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« on: October 17, 2014, 02:16:25 PM »

Future DACs should honor PTS for helping bootstrap this community and fund development of the toolkit... but should we continue to dilute PTS holders just to fund mining?

Based upon designs for future DACs that we have, there is no need to have PTS be liquid.   

What if we simply shut down PTS after one last snapshot for all eternity for any and all future DACs after which it becomes an empty token with the value of all the other alt coins?

I think it would be much cleaner to simply end PTS... have DACS launch their own proto-dac like Toast did or even BTSX did.   

Why do this?  It simplifies our marketing message... no need to advertize/support PTS after the last snapshot.   

Those who want liquidity could sell prior to the last snapshot and buy into individual proto-dacs when the time comes. 

This will also create one genesis block initial balance template for all DACs and remove the need to support the genesis block generators for arbitrary dates.

We are coming up on November 5th, 1 year from the launch of PTS so I would like to propose that November 5th be the last snap shot day for all time after which we would dump all of our PTS on the market to who ever wants to speculate.    I suspect that the price fall on PTS after this date would stop mining in its tracks anyway..

Mining is costing our community over $5000 per day right now and over $1 million over the next year.... assuming block times will "average" 5 minutes.  We should certainly end mining prior to the next difficulty adjustment... because with what we are paying for mining on PTS we could hire many developers.

Just a proposal...
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2014, 02:22:50 PM »
Can you simplify it for me : PTS will not be honored in future after stopping mining ?

The last PTS snapshot of all time (Nov 5, 2014) should be honored by DAC developers... afterward PTS will have no value to US thus we will dump it... and miners which are currently mining near a loss or at a loss will stop completely.   
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Offline BldSwtTrs

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2014, 02:22:58 PM »
What will happen to the 10% AGS/10% PTS social consensus? Will it become 20% for AGS or still be 10% for AGS?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2014, 02:23:31 PM »
What will happen to the 10% AGS/10% PTS social consensus? It will become 20% for AGS or still 10% for AGS?

10% Last PTS snapshot
10% AGS.

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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 02:24:39 PM »
Can you simplify it for me : PTS will not be honored in future after stopping mining ?

The last PTS snapshot of all time (Nov 5, 2014) should be honored by DAC developers... afterward PTS will have no value to US thus we will dump it... and miners which are currently mining near a loss or at a loss will stop completely.   

will there be PTS-2.0 ? or just no more PTS at all?

No more PTS at all is the proposal... there would only be a 20% allocation to a fixed genesis block that will be distributed with the toolkit as a recomendation. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline Rune

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 02:27:56 PM »
How about making PTS an asset on btsx? It would be a great way to show off the capabilities of the market engine, and would save the community both mining and exchange fees.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 02:32:51 PM »
How about making PTS an asset on btsx? It would be a great way to show off the capabilities of the market engine, and would save the community both mining and exchange fees.

But would require generate of new snapshot tools... would be another "thing" to explain to new members of our community.... it would be competing with new DACS for capital.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 02:34:29 PM »
At least this would greatly simplify future genesis blocks ..

unless people leave their PTS in the exchanges
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014, 02:35:09 PM »
So,DAC only wants to give AGS 10%,but under recommendation can also give 20% to the last PTS snapshot ?
no .. will be 10% / 10% .. as usual ..
makes 20% for the combined AGS+PTS snapshot
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Offline Frodo

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014, 02:36:00 PM »
I think it would be much cleaner to simply end PTS... have DACS launch their own proto-dac like Toast did or even BTSX did.   

What do you mean by proto-dacs? Some sort of tradable IOUs prior to launch?

Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 02:36:38 PM »
2.5 weeks is not very much notice. We may have some very angry people show up in a month or two that don't check the forums often after they see the PTS value crashed. I personally think it would be better to do a snapshot then migrate to a DPoS network.

Another thing is in the future 20% of all DACs released will be owned by the same people. It is already bad enough to have 10% that way (AGS). Seeing as though some of the new DACs are only awarding 10%-20% from their pre sales, that means up to 90% of the genesis coins of future DACs new users will not be able to invest in and may affect the popularity and adoption of them.

We should learn from Nxt in this scenario.. If initial distribution of tokens is poor the coin will have low interest and adoption. Historically Nxt's volume is crap compared to the other coins in the top tier in terms of market cap. Even though they have a great product and are one of the most promising cryptocoin 2.0 projects, they are barely alive... under $30,000 in volume the past 24 hours.

Offline Stan

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 02:36:59 PM »
So this would leave both AGS and PTS working the exact same way:

The last AGS snapshot on July 18
The last PTS snapshot on Nov 5

But they both still function as unique demographic mailing lists for all new DAC categories.

Developers would choose whether their new DAC honors an existing category formerly derived 50/50 from PTS and AGS (like BTSX) or is a new category derived directly from PTS and AGS.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:44:01 PM by Stan »
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Offline cryptillionaire

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2014, 02:37:05 PM »
Massively against continuing POW on PTS, it should be moved to DPOS ASAP.
The developers of new dacs would be perfect delegates.

I do think however, that snapshots for sharedrops shouldn't be limited to only PTS/AGS - the social consensus is that they each get 10% minimum, why not then snapshot other blockchains like bitcoin for 10%? It would bring a massive influx of new users!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:39:02 PM by cryptillionaire »

Offline Riverhead

Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014, 02:39:22 PM »
I support this.

Likely it'll just die out but I already have all the PTS I plan on buying and am only holding them for future snapshots. If there is one final snapshot than I don't have to worry about accounting for dilution for each new announced DAC.


Offline emski

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Re: Should we continue to funding mining of PTS?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014, 02:39:41 PM »
I also think PTS should migrate to DPOS and remain liquid.

 

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