Summary of recent events / merger proposal

[Ander]

From what I've read, wouldn't the distribution be unfair because of pre/post 28 February. On top of that, won't the snapshots affect BitsharesX price? Given that, shouldn't we merge PTS with AGS into GENESIS and just turn BitsharesX into Bitshares?

I just wrote another post about what a fair merger of BTSX with AGS/PTS looks like:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10219.0

[Akado]

From what I've read, wouldn't the distribution be unfair because of pre/post 28 February. On top of that, won't the snapshots affect BitsharesX price? Given that, shouldn't we merge PTS with AGS into GENESIS and just turn BitsharesX into Bitshares?

[jsidhu]

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

I don't think PTS pumps since Feb/Mar have been more than a few million USD.
Would not be a huge impact on BTSX. Risk will lessen as the market cap grows.

I think that angel investing should have its own assets because it doesn't bring anything technical into the fold... while things like VOTE/DNS do so they should be merged into BTSX... you shouldnt mix the two.. and it is a creation of a simply unpegged asset of bitProtoAngel that merges in AGS/PTS with no capital infusion properties.. while technical implementations or imporvements would go into BTS.. thus you move new technologies into one DAC.

And who paid for the 'technical implementations or improvements' if not AGS?

AGS holders were already compensated... this is essentially converting PTS/AGS into a asset which is tradeable. In code its called separation of concerns. The function of bitProtoAngel is drastically different than BTS, while it makes sense to merge some things in BTS which will function as part of a whole and inter-dependent on other features in the main asset.

[onceuponatime]

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

I don't think PTS pumps since Feb/Mar have been more than a few million USD.
Would not be a huge impact on BTSX. Risk will lessen as the market cap grows.

I think that angel investing should have its own assets because it doesn't bring anything technical into the fold... while things like VOTE/DNS do so they should be merged into BTSX... you shouldnt mix the two.. and it is a creation of a simply unpegged asset of bitProtoAngel that merges in AGS/PTS with no capital infusion properties.. while technical implementations or imporvements would go into BTS.. thus you move new technologies into one DAC.

And who paid for the 'technical implementations or improvements' if not AGS?

[jsidhu]

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

I don't think PTS pumps since Feb/Mar have been more than a few million USD.
Would not be a huge impact on BTSX. Risk will lessen as the market cap grows.

I think that angel investing should have its own assets because it doesn't bring anything technical into the fold... while things like VOTE/DNS do so they should be merged into BTSX... you shouldnt mix the two.. and it is a creation of a simple unpegged asset of bitProtoAngel that merges in AGS/PTS with no capital infusion properties.. while technical implementations or imporvements would go into BTS.. thus you move new technologies into one DAC. This is would mean no P&D as new DAC technologies get merged on BTS.. and when new technologies are implemented the share allocation can depend on snapshots of the new bitProtoAngel asset. It would atleast establish the difference between investing in future projects vs a DAC intended to be used for some sort of real world utility.

[roadscape]

I don't think it should be used for the marketing campaign because marketing hasn't been successfully accomplished by anyone in the industry. Even Bitcoin failed at marketing so far.

But I have some questions which maybe some people can answer:

1) Is it possible to launch a new AGS like campaign for people who missed the Feb 28th deadline  and set it up so that whoever donates to this AGS campaign will receive BTSX via the dilution but that the vesting period requires they cannot utilize these shares until 2016 when the Bitcoin block reward halves? This way they cannot dump or mess things up for the original group of investors who met the deadline, also it rewards people who donated early.

2) Can there be a proposal and a vote? I don't think many shareholders will agree on spending millions of dollars on marketing when marketing hasn't been successful. Let the shareholders decide on where to direct the resources.

I think if they do this and get it wrong it's going to wreak havoc on the market. I don't think shareholders will accept dilution for marketing. I do think shareholders would accept it if there was some sort way to track the success of things but how do you track that?

Bytemaster says the raising capital when the market is going down is a solid plan as long as the capital is put toward good purposes? What good purposes is that? Marketing seems like it would be a waste of money based on what information we currently have.

Current proposal is to kill PTS/AGS but transfer their value into BTS.

I think your proposal sounds more like another round of crowd-funding.

[matt608]

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

I don't think PTS pumps since Feb/Mar have been more than a few million USD.
Would not be a huge impact on BTSX. Risk will lessen as the market cap grows.

Good point. 

[luckybit]

I don't think it should be used for the marketing campaign because marketing hasn't been successfully accomplished by anyone in the industry. Even Bitcoin failed at marketing so far.

But I have some questions which maybe some people can answer:

1) Is it possible to launch a new AGS like campaign for people who missed the Feb 28th deadline  and set it up so that whoever donates to this AGS campaign will receive BTSX via the dilution but that the vesting period requires they cannot utilize these shares until 2016 when the Bitcoin block reward halves? This way they cannot dump or mess things up for the original group of investors who met the deadline, also it rewards people who donated early.

2) Can there be a proposal and a vote? I don't think many shareholders will agree on spending millions of dollars on marketing when marketing hasn't been successful. Let the shareholders decide on where to direct the resources.

I think if they do this and get it wrong it's going to wreak havoc on the market. I don't think shareholders will accept dilution for marketing. I do think shareholders would accept it if there was some sort way to track the success of things but how do you track that?

Bytemaster says the raising capital when the market is going down is a solid plan as long as the capital is put toward good purposes? What good purposes is that? Marketing seems like it would be a waste of money based on what information we currently have.

[roadscape]

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

I don't think PTS pumps since Feb/Mar have been more than a few million USD.
Would not be a huge impact on BTSX. Risk will lessen as the market cap grows.

[jsidhu]

The market cap may not even retain $50M... if merged in pts/ags members may sell and also btsx may sell snowballing a marketcap way lower than it started with.

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

Maybe if one BTS snapshot is taken a the start and distibuted to BTS holders and then traded somehow as an unpegged bitasset on BTS?  So as not to rock the BTS price unnecessarily.

Ok so one snapshot of PTS/AGS/BTSX to create BTS and bitProtoAngel.. and then future DACS can snapshot this new bitProtoAngel(the golden goose) to allocate a percentage of shares to...

Maybe better to just create bitProtoAngel from PTS/AGS snapshot and just convert BTSX to BTS.. with ability to vote for cap infusion for BTS for VOTE/DNS so forth.

[clayop]

Great summary 

Just one thing should be corrected.
50mil BTSX vs 10mil PTS+AGS is not 80:20 (actually it's 83:17). 50mil:12.5mil or 48mil:12mil is 80:20.

[Ander]

If we want the market price to not be rocked, then those who believe in this new entity that we want to create, BTS, must buy the cheap shares that the panic sellers are selling, and hold up the price. 

I believe this is currently happening, and the drop to 2 cents last night was the bottom, and we are now aobut 10-15% higher than this.  But of course, its hard to know the bottom until well after the fact.

[matt608]

The market cap may not even retain $50M... if merged in pts/ags members may sell and also btsx may sell snowballing a marketcap way lower than it started with.

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

Maybe if one BTS snapshot is taken a the start and distibuted to BTS holders and then traded somehow as an unpegged bitasset on BTS?  So as not to rock the BTS price unnecessarily. 

[jsidhu]

The market cap may not even retain $50M... if merged in pts/ags members may sell and also btsx may sell snowballing a marketcap way lower than it started with.

Will future DACs be snapshoted from BTS? If so, will you have cases where it will be pumped and dumped as new snapshots occur?

[roadscape]

Excellent summary! Here's my rally call.

48 hours is way too fast.  At the very least we need to go for the november target that bytemaster first proposed for closing PTS (the 1 year anniversary of PTS).

The 1 year anniversary is in 16 days: November 5. Stan stated snapshots require two week notice.