Author Topic: Summary of recent events / merger proposal  (Read 18000 times)

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Offline janx

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I think the point is it's bad to manipulate the value of people's assets through some 'proposal', no matter how great the proposals look like. What's the difference from gov?

Prices plunged, damages done. The whole drama is hurting people. I believe BM was not intended, but still, hurting. Please stop.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:04:39 pm by janx »

Offline davidpbrown

3) Capital infusion to fund marketing efforts is solved by allowing for a majority vote of BTS holders to vote to create and sell shares for funding purposes, which would then be used to grow Bitshares much faster than it could otherwise have developed (hopefully).

If the community believes that the secondary offering of new shares is in its interest, it would vote in favor.  If the community believes that the dilution is not worth the benefits, they will vote against it.

Does this suggest we will expect a pump and dump within BTSX at each new DAC!?.. I don't mind the idea of snapshoting against BTS but diluting it as a method to support new DACs, surely will detract from other DACs.

Surely a new DAC should stand relative to the idea of what it is, rather than the inclination of a few insiders who want to prefer one new DAC rather than any other. I would rather see what we have atm, that new DACs can fail and others can go large.. Lotto as one example that seems to have faltered. On that note then, surely the market is a statement of the real interest in a DAC and is better then that just the inclination of core individuals. 101 delegates is perhaps too centralised for some decentralised advocates; what is proposed looks to risk the creation of real politiking about what comes next.

Is this proposal of dilution only for core DACs and if so what of third party DACs, do they use ye olde method of snapshot and IPO??


With dilution now it seems there are three issues proposed!..
  • A. [PTS -> BTSX]
  • B. [drawing all DACs dev together]
  • C. [dilution of BTSX to support new DACs]

A. is needed for the extreme cost of PoW.
B. will be useful in the short term and perhaps then longer term having a core base spawning what is new.
C. looks like weakness and lack of confidence in what new DACs the market beyond BTS can support.

I'd rather see BTSX benefiting from assets and other DACs value held seperate as DNS|Vote|Note etc; I've no issue with those being assets on the BTS blockchain. The arguement perhaps for being within a larger pool of liquidity is that those will be less vunerable to then inevitable early pump and dump but I'm not sure that p&d is such a big issue, if a DAC is a good idea and BTS support is strong then I would default to being confident the market will resolve to a good sense of value relative to the value of the DAC. How else will the value of individual DACs be known, if everything is BTS?

« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 12:05:55 pm by davidpbrown »
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Offline neo1344

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hi Stan
Thanks for your  reply after reading your link l could say that l was wrong l look forward to investing.

Offline Stan

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start to stink,get out soon as u can

Before you get out, think:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10293.msg135123#msg135123

Golly, people are fighting about trivia when this weekend's innovations should have you dancing in the streets.

This is mind-boggling good news. 
An order of magnitude more potential.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 03:00:48 am by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline neo1344

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start to stink,get out soon as u can

Offline celticwarrior72

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Sounds like a frightful mess.

Offline liondani

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10% for AGS and 10% for PTS ?

Don't you remember what happened when COB wanted to give us 10% for bitshares-music?
The majority was not satisfied and guess what? It changed to 35% each...

How much % gave  freetrade for lotto shares? (doesn't matter it was not successful)

How much for DNS?

So why are you all happy right now with 10% ????
Not to mention that the $5 milion marketcap of PTS don't reflects the real value of AGS/PTS in my opinion ...
as I explained here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10181.msg134374#msg134374


PS I am positive for the merge to happen but I think right now it's not fair for both PTS and AGS holders/donators... Maybe and I hope I am wrong...
      After all 10% was the minimum, why not get with the maximum % or at least with a percenatge between... I thought bytemaster would suggest to give the max support to AGS/PTS holders/donators since he is the only one (maybe) that knows exactly how important it was to get a dream to a reality because of the early supporters.

Offline alphaBar

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Based on the market action, it seems that most of those who would be opposed to this have simply dumped all their BTSX already, and that those who held are generally in favor.

Ridiculous assumption.

Okay.  Some of those that were opposed dumped.

Only a half truth. People who support any one of the competing proposals could say the same, ie, "anyone who doesn't agree has probably divested".

Offline Ander

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Based on the market action, it seems that most of those who would be opposed to this have simply dumped all their BTSX already, and that those who held are generally in favor.

Ridiculous assumption.

Okay.  Some of those that were opposed dumped.
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Offline alphaBar

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Based on the market action, it seems that most of those who would be opposed to this have simply dumped all their BTSX already, and that those who held are generally in favor.

Ridiculous assumption.

Offline ag

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I would like to have bitshares DAC, vote DAC, and dns DAC, on separate block chain. the problem is: dns and vote need a stable unit of value for users to transact in and that if they decide to issue a bitUSD against their own collateral then that puts them as direct competitors with bitshares.

As alternative you can have bitUSD gateways on the vote and dns chains. In the simplest form, just a user with bitshares and vote/DNS account which take bitUSD deposits on the bitshares blockchain, and issue bitUSD IOU's (essentially user issued tokens) on the second blockchain. these IOU's just facilitate exchange on the specific DAC. for instance with the music DAC these IOU's are used to buy artist coin or with DNS domains. the person receiving these IOU's will want to redeem them immediately with the gateway for interest bearing bitUSD.

Another way to think of these IOU'S, is how bitcoin is used with silkroad. no one likes to hold bitcoin, just have to use it as payment within silkroad. same with bitUSD IOU's. bitUSD IOU's are risky and give no interest. just facilitate transactions in DAC, but rather redeem for bitUSD.




Offline Ander

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Any official announcement if Vote and DNS accepted the merger ?

There is nothing official so far.  Right now it is just proposals and the community is working to build consensus.
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Offline oco101

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Any official announcement if Vote and DNS accepted the merger ?   

Offline roadscape

Stan: The rules are that snapshots give two week's notice.  So if someone decides to do this, you've got several whole days left to make the announcement if you want to hit the Nov 5th anniversary date.

Are we still looking to capture this opportunity?

There's 1 day left to agree if we want free anniversary buzz:

 - Market it as a 1-year anniversary celebration/evolution/metamorphosis/death.
 - Convert the remaining value of PST+AGS to BTSX through dilution.
 - Announce the death of PTS/AGS and introduce BitSharesNoX.

To come to a consensus, don't we have to agree on what consensus looks like?

 - Start a poll thread?
 - Vocally consent in mumble?
 - Wait for VOTE?
 - Try to convert every last user on this forum?
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Offline Ander

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Great summary  +5%

Just one thing should be corrected.
50mil BTSX vs 10mil PTS+AGS is not 80:20 (actually it's 83:17). 50mil:12.5mil or 48mil:12mil is 80:20.

Yes, this is true.

Market caps are an 83/17 split, while traditional social consensus is an 80/20 split.

Fortunately these are not too far off form each other!


I think its clear that giving more than 20% to PTS/AGS would be unfair to BTSX holders.
I think its clear that giving less than 17% to PTS/AGS holders would be unfair to PTS/AGS holders, based on the market caps.

I think that I would lean towards the 20% number purely to preserve the social consensus, even though it reward PTS/AGS holders a LITTLE bit over BTSX holders.   (It hurts me personally a tiny bit, since I have more BTSX than PTS.  But I still think it would be correct.  You PTS/AGS people should be happy with that number, it gives you a 20-25% premium over your old market cap, worth of value).


I discussed this a bunch more in my new thread.


Also, wow, my thread got stickied! :D

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