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Offline Stan

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BitShares the Platform
« on: October 22, 2014, 12:14:34 AM »

I love metaphors.  They can take one set of facts and completely change which branch of government wants to arrest you.  They can change you from a fan to a foe in one flash of insight.  Or vice versa.  Dr. Charles Evans had a fun time with this in his delightful classic blog post "A bitRose by any Other Name".  http://bitshares.org/a-bitrose-by-any-other-name/

Quote
Most of us, who are familiar enough with Bitcoin to explain it to others, know that there are no ‘coins’ to be ‘mined’, as if coins were mined in the real world. Ore is mined, and coins are minted, which has nothing to do with how they smell or taste. These are similes and analogies. To fixate on their literal meanings is foolish, if not disingenuous.

So now, here's a switch of metaphors for you. 
Does it change how you view things?

BitSharesX (BTSX) is shares in a DAC.  BitShares (BTS) is shares in a DAC platform.  A DAC operating system.

This DAC-OS provides (or will provide) a whole bunch of common services that are much less effective if they aren't common services:
  • A unified basket of stable, robust global currencies (bitAssets)
  • A unified set of well compensated, best-of-breed delegates.
  • A unified name system.
  • A unified secure messaging system.
  • A unified set of on and off ramps - portals to the fiat world.
  • A unified marketing message.
  • A unified consensus-based governing system.
  • A unified family of tools and wallets.
  • A unified way for newcomers to make instant friends with everyone already there.
  • A built-in venture capital system where you can compete for start-up funds - democratically.
New business developers (DAC engineers) shouldn't want to reinvent these things any more than I would want to reinvent my computer's device drivers and operating system.  And what sense would it make to have different competing operating systems, each with a subset of drivers and services?

Gee, I sure wish I could go back in time and invest in MS-DOS. 
Rats. 
An opportunity like that will never come around again.

BitShares takes the whole ecosystem into one DAC friendly free-trade zone with all the services that benefit from network effect already in place.

Any developer who wants to build a business would be crazy to stay on the outside and try to replicate that.  Even if they can pick up the toolkit and get all the functions - the network effect doesn't come with the toolkit!  You get that by joining the club.  You still run your own business with its own custom storefront and Internet presence.  You just skipped a year or two of trying to get traffic to stop by!

Now do you begin to see why it wasn't hard for the VOTE and DNS developers to Seize the Day?

You may have heard many opinions that DAC Developers would never want to honor the old AGS/PTS value proposition, but there are plenty of examples of those who did.  But that value proposition is now unassailable! 

We offer instant network effect.  Built in. 

Come build you business in our free trade zone mall.  Join us in free space.  We are the mall developers.  You can be a mall tenant.   We've got lots of real estate for you - all wired up with power, plumbing, internet and customers browsing the halls.  Add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own and get issued shares to match the value you have added to our free trade ecosystem.  And its growing network effect.

You'd be crazy to locate your business outside the mall.  Why start over?

So, the ravenous, irresistible, competition eating monster some have been fearing is now an inviting level business playing field where you can get a huge head start on your business model.  We invite you to be a member rather than a competitor.  We hold out an open hand of friendship and a value proposition that will get better and better over time.

In Free Space Real Estate, its about Location, Location, Location.

And yes, resistance is futile.
:)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Xeldal

Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 12:40:27 AM »
I can dig it  8)   +5%  Full circle now with FreeSpace. Its good.

Malls died years ago though.

Offline GaltReport

Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 12:44:00 AM »
I love metaphors.  They can take one set of facts and completely change which branch of government wants to arrest you.  They can change you from a fan to a foe in one flash of insight.  Or vice versa.  Dr. Charles Evans had a fun time with this in his delightful classic blog post "A bitRose by any Other Name".  http://bitshares.org/a-bitrose-by-any-other-name/

Quote
Most of us, who are familiar enough with Bitcoin to explain it to others, know that there are no ‘coins’ to be ‘mined’, as if coins were mined in the real world. Ore is mined, and coins are minted, which has nothing to do with how they smell or taste. These are similes and analogies. To fixate on their literal meanings is foolish, if not disingenuous.

So now, here's a switch of metaphors for you. 
Does it change how you view things?

BitSharesX (BTSX) is shares in a DAC.  BitShares (BTS) is shares in a DAC platform.  A DAC operating system.

This DAC-OS provides (or will provide) a whole bunch of common services that are much less effective if they aren't common services:
  • A unified basket of stable, robust global currencies (bitAssets)
  • A unified set of well compensated, best-of-breed delegates.
  • A unified name system.
  • A unified secure messaging system.
  • A unified set of on and off ramps - portals to the fiat world.
  • A unified marketing message.
  • A unified consensus-based governing system.
  • A unified family of tools and wallets.
  • A unified way for newcomers to make instant friends with everyone already there.
  • A built-in venture capital system where you can compete for start-up funds - democratically.
New business developers (DAC engineers) shouldn't want to reinvent these things any more than I would want to reinvent my computer's device drivers and operating system.  And what sense would it make to have different competing operating systems, each with a subset of drivers and services?

Gee, I sure wish I could go back in time and invest in MS-DOS. 
Rats. 
An opportunity like that will never come around again.

BitShares takes the whole ecosystem into one DAC friendly free-trade zone with all the services that benefit from network effect already in place.

Any developer who wants to build a business would be crazy to stay on the outside and try to replicate that.  Even if they can pick up the toolkit and get all the functions - the network effect doesn't come with the toolkit!  You get that by joining the club.  You still run your own business with its own custom storefront and Internet presence.  You just skipped a year or two of trying to get traffic to stop by!

Now do you begin to see why it wasn't hard for the VOTE and DNS developers to Seize the Day?

You may have heard many opinions that DAC Developers would never want to honor the old AGS/PTS value proposition, but there are plenty of examples of those who did.  But that value proposition is now unassailable! 

We offer instant network effect.  Built in. 

Come build you business in our free trade zone mall.  Join us in free space.  We are the mall developers.  You can be a mall tenant.   We've got lots of real estate for you - all wired up with power, plumbing, internet and customers browsing the halls.  Add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own and get issued shares to match the value you have added to our free trade ecosystem.  And its growing network effect.

You'd be crazy to locate your business outside the mall.  Why start over?

So, the ravenous, irresistible, competition eating monster some have been fearing is now an inviting level business playing field where you can get a huge head start on your business model.  We invite you to be a member rather than a competitor.  We hold out an open hand of friendship and a value proposition that will get better and better over time.

In Free Space Real Estate, its about Location, Location, Location.

And yes, resistance is futile.
:)
+5%
So weird to see this post just as I was contemplating the genius of all these features as generic building block  features that could and will ultimately build more than the particular DAC that they were associated with to begin with...Only greater genius would be if someone had planned this from the beginning...to disguise the real plan... I'm willing to pretend that was the case!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 12:46:36 AM by GaltReport »

Offline Xeldal

Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 12:55:59 AM »
...Only greater genius would be if someone had planned this from the beginning...to disguise the real plan... I'm willing to pretend that was the case!

That is exactly what I was thinking : )  so funny.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 12:57:56 AM »
Let's say I am a DAC/decentralized application developer and I want to use the network effect how do I do it? I can think of two ways:
a) Write something that rides on top of the BTSX blockchain, e.g. like Counterparty does with BTC with an Ethereum style scripting environment. Here I would have an own token for which I could define what it's value is (what is is required for).
b) Working together with I3 and do a merger so that my application is a feature without an own token.

How do you envision that (now that devs should not create their own DAC with the toolkit)?

[I will check your answer tomorrow; late her :)]
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 01:00:06 AM by delulo »

Offline CLains

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 01:04:53 AM »
Quote from: Stan


 :D
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Offline Stan

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 01:06:09 AM »
Let's say I am a DAC/decentralized application developer and I want to use the network effect how do I do it? I can think of two ways:
a) Write something that rides on top of the BTSX blockchain, e.g. like Counterparty does with BTC with an Ethereum style scripting environment. Here I would have an own token for which I could define what it's value is (what is is required for).
b) Working together with I3 and do a merger so that my application is a feature without an own token.

How do you envision that (now that devs should not create their own DAC with the toolkit)?

[I will check your answer tomorrow; late her :)]

Well, first, we have always said we are not releasing DACs ourselves - just a toolkit for developers.  Now I'm trying out the view that this toolkit can be more than just static software - it can be a full-up DAC mall with increasing customer traffic.  Something more valuable than free software libraries.

Under this model, DSL's BTSX (a bank and exchange) could be viewed as one of the first mall anchor tenants...

And if this metaphor catches on, then it would inform what else gets added to the toolkit to allow plug-and-play DACs to move in and set up operations quickly.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 01:07:12 AM »
Quote from: Stan


 :D

Ah, what memories!
A dream fulfilled at last!
Just wait for the land rush!
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 01:13:25 AM »
Newton had to be hit on the head with an apple to discover gravity.
Fleming had to mess up his lab with moldy dishes to discover penicillin.
Most archeological treasures are discovered while digging sewage ditches.

I'd rather be lucky than good.  :)




Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline clayop

Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 01:33:08 AM »
Stan, I love your wording "DAC-OS"
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 01:43:02 AM »
Let's say I am a DAC/decentralized application developer and I want to use the network effect how do I do it? I can think of two ways:
a) Write something that rides on top of the BTSX blockchain, e.g. like Counterparty does with BTC with an Ethereum style scripting environment. Here I would have an own token for which I could define what it's value is (what is is required for).
b) Working together with I3 and do a merger so that my application is a feature without an own token.

How do you envision that (now that devs should not create their own DAC with the toolkit)?

[I will check your answer tomorrow; late her :)]

Well, first, we have always said we are not releasing DACs ourselves - just a toolkit for developers.  Now I'm trying out the view that this toolkit can be more than just static software - it can be a full-up DAC mall with increasing customer traffic.  Something more valuable than free software libraries.

Under this model, DSL's BTSX (a bank and exchange) could be viewed as one of the first mall anchor tenants...

And if this metaphor catches on, then it would inform what else gets added to the toolkit to allow plug-and-play DACs to move in and set up operations quickly.
Still awake. This kept me awake http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2jw5pm/im_gavin_andresen_chief_scientist_at_the_bitcoin/clg5g9n Please upvote...

Back on the topic: ...But what would be the option now for third party devs that want to build an application? Aside from the options I pointed out above a third party dev on his own chain could get community/i3 approval if he allocated 20%+ of BTS (without X) to his DAC which would be based on the toolkit.
Am I right that the toolkit would be equal to BTS?

Did you think about legal implications of all the changes?

Offline Stan

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 01:54:47 AM »
Let's say I am a DAC/decentralized application developer and I want to use the network effect how do I do it? I can think of two ways:
a) Write something that rides on top of the BTSX blockchain, e.g. like Counterparty does with BTC with an Ethereum style scripting environment. Here I would have an own token for which I could define what it's value is (what is is required for).
b) Working together with I3 and do a merger so that my application is a feature without an own token.

How do you envision that (now that devs should not create their own DAC with the toolkit)?

[I will check your answer tomorrow; late her :)]

Well, first, we have always said we are not releasing DACs ourselves - just a toolkit for developers.  Now I'm trying out the view that this toolkit can be more than just static software - it can be a full-up DAC mall with increasing customer traffic.  Something more valuable than free software libraries.

Under this model, DSL's BTSX (a bank and exchange) could be viewed as one of the first mall anchor tenants...

And if this metaphor catches on, then it would inform what else gets added to the toolkit to allow plug-and-play DACs to move in and set up operations quickly.
Still awake. This kept me awake http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2jw5pm/im_gavin_andresen_chief_scientist_at_the_bitcoin/clg5g9n Please upvote...

Back on the topic: ...But what would be the option now for third party devs that want to build an application? Aside from the options I pointed out above a third party dev on his own chain could get community/i3 approval if he allocated 20%+ of BTS (without X) to his DAC which would be based on the toolkit.
Am I right that the toolkit would be equal to BTS?

Did you think about legal implications of all the changes?

Well innovations are happening at lightning speed so it is hard to say.

I'm just an old metaphor peddler, so we'll see if it catches on.

But it seems to me your suggested methods would work and that a DAC Mall Tenant API might be designed.  Or it could eventually be just apps you install in the DAC-OS.

There's quite a difference between MS-DOS and MAC-OS-X so who knows where it might go.

With Turing complete smart contracts, you might launch your business without formally building a DAC.

And with user interfaces ranging from a debit card to a smart phone app to a web app to a full up e-trade console to a voting booth to a, um, I can't say yet....  There will be many ways to build unmanned businesses on the platform.

And yes, a third party merger can now proceed from inception as a delegate who is seeking VC funding from the community through development to installation with help from the core devs where appropriate.  Honoring the 20% BTS deal would become the formal negotiated deal to get space in the mall.  A much more compelling proposition than free-standing DACs have had to motivate them up to this point.  Now, you'd be crazy to turn down a 20-80 merger with that much going for it.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:00:33 AM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline fuzzy

Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 02:14:35 AM »
Let's say I am a DAC/decentralized application developer and I want to use the network effect how do I do it? I can think of two ways:
a) Write something that rides on top of the BTSX blockchain, e.g. like Counterparty does with BTC with an Ethereum style scripting environment. Here I would have an own token for which I could define what it's value is (what is is required for).
b) Working together with I3 and do a merger so that my application is a feature without an own token.

How do you envision that (now that devs should not create their own DAC with the toolkit)?

[I will check your answer tomorrow; late her :)]

Well, first, we have always said we are not releasing DACs ourselves - just a toolkit for developers.  Now I'm trying out the view that this toolkit can be more than just static software - it can be a full-up DAC mall with increasing customer traffic.  Something more valuable than free software libraries.

Under this model, DSL's BTSX (a bank and exchange) could be viewed as one of the first mall anchor tenants...

And if this metaphor catches on, then it would inform what else gets added to the toolkit to allow plug-and-play DACs to move in and set up operations quickly.
Still awake. This kept me awake http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2jw5pm/im_gavin_andresen_chief_scientist_at_the_bitcoin/clg5g9n Please upvote...

Back on the topic: ...But what would be the option now for third party devs that want to build an application? Aside from the options I pointed out above a third party dev on his own chain could get community/i3 approval if he allocated 20%+ of BTS (without X) to his DAC which would be based on the toolkit.
Am I right that the toolkit would be equal to BTS?

Did you think about legal implications of all the changes?

Well innovations are happening at lightning speed so it is hard to say.

I'm just an old metaphor peddler, so we'll see if it catches on.

But it seems to me your suggested methods would work and that a DAC Mall Tenant API might be designed.  Or it could eventually be just apps you install in the DAC-OS.

There's quite a difference between MS-DOS and MAC-OS-X so who knows where it might go.

With Turing complete smart contracts, you might launch your business without formally building a DAC.

And with user interfaces ranging from a debit card to a smart phone app to a web app to a full up e-trade console to a voting booth to a, um, I can't say yet....  There will be many ways to build unmanned businesses on the platform.

And yes, a third party merger can now proceed from inception as a delegate who is seeking VC funding from the community through development to installation with help from the core devs where appropriate.  Honoring the 20% BTS deal would become the formal negotiated deal to get space in the mall.  A much more compelling proposition than free-standing DACs have had to motivate them up to this point.  Now, you'd be crazy to turn down a 20-80 merger with that much going for it.

 +5%
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Offline arhag

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 03:20:52 AM »
+5%


And with user interfaces ranging from a debit card to a smart phone app to a web app to a full up e-trade console to a voting booth to a, um, I can't say yet....

Hmm... e-commerce marketplace? Just wild speculation.

Online oco101

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Re: BitShares the Platform
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 03:36:49 AM »

Sounds good really like the Bitshare OS analogy . But what about the following scenario :
 
  • BTS price is 1$. I raise money to develop my Dapp(not easy need to convince the majority of BTS network to get the funds...). I'm lunching a amazing Dapp let's take  Music as an example.  My Dapp is doing absolutely great let's suppose that it is the most popular on the Bitshare OS and maybe other Dapps are not doing so great. So now because of my amazing Dapps,  BTS  is worth1.5$. Because there is no such think as Notes there is no way I will make money out of Bitshare OS except if I own BTS( by the way those i should buy myself with my own money) and hope that different good Dapps are there to raise the value of the BTS. But what if someone is starting selling DaappCocaine now my BTS are going  down like  bitcoin, now I'm losing money.  As a developer the only way to make money it using the PeerTrack website.
  • Now same idea but as independent DAC, I clone Bitshare OS so I have all the goodies of the toolkit( I print my own bitUSD). I have no intention to go against Bitshare at all I just want to run my business and do one think well, sell music that's it. I pre-sale Notes  to acquire some founds classical style,( I may honor AGS/PTS holder just for the fun of it  :P). I lunch. Notes are going to the moon, the shareholders are happy my shares are not diluted by other non successful Dapps . I'm not is in danger of collapse because of dangerous DappCocaine.

Of course this scenario will not apply for every third party DAC but for some I thing will be an attractive alternative i.e A DAC like Music is special they don't need the network effect of the cryptoword, so they don't really need the network effect of Bitshare OS and BTS shareholders

Before you could build your own business, now you could only be an employee .

I use Music as a example not suggesting anything here.I'm also 100% absolutely in favor for the merger, because I thinks this is the best thing to do at this point in time no question about. We are to small to do it otherwise.  I just don't think this is the best solution long term. I still prefer the  of  1000 blockhain original philosophy model more than Bitshareum one chain model. 

 

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