BM:i tell you why you are the bigest bug of bts

[BTSdac]

 

[xeroc]

There is nothing divided, there are some people that simple don't get it and they are the minority, lets see how many pages and how many new threads it will take until they finally understand.

I could say that there is also a possibility that some of those voices are from competitors or "third parties" that wanted to create themselves a superDAC and now they see their plans ruined because they will have to compete with Invictus, it's not hard to imagine a "SuperBitshares" scamcoin that offers "everything" plus it is called bitcoin3.0 and bla bla bla bla....

That's what I'd like to believe too ... not sure though ..

It's really funny if you try to imagine this minority as miners of bitcoin and Gavin Andresen trying to convince them that they have to change POW to DPOS, POS or something else. LOL!!!

[chryspano]

A House Divided

24" If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25" If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
26" If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!…

We must unite  as soon as possible, to be able to stand...
If you think about it deeper, bytemaster has done all of this, to have as all united as an end result!
He want us united in the long term and not only at the early days... if you know what I mean...

I am ALL IN for...

A House UNITED !!!

There is nothing divided, there are some people that simple don't get it and they are the minority, lets see how many pages and how many new threads it will take until they finally understand.

I could say that there is also a possibility that some of those voices are from competitors or "third parties" that wanted to create themselves a superDAC and now they see their plans ruined because they will have to compete with Invictus, it's not hard to imagine a "SuperBitshares" scamcoin that offers "everything" plus it is called bitcoin3.0 and bla bla bla bla....

It's really funny if you try to imagine this minority as miners of bitcoin and Gavin Andresen trying to convince them that they have to change POW to DPOS, POS or something else. LOL!!!

[alt]

You seem to missed my point...It's not a job for you to fork the code,you just need to let 3rd think you would "if they do not give 20% to pts and ags". It's not for you , it's for them.

You don't need to ground a child for small time shoplifting ,you just need to let them think they would.

And once again , I stress my point : When I'm talking about AGS and PTS,I meant the original one,not their stake in BTS.

Toast also said something like future 3rd dac should honer AGS-PTS instead of BTS.

I've been watch you guys trying to fix this pain in the ass situation,I understand your frustration . The DNS compensation thing is a good
gesture,you've actually earned back some supports for that.

Now,you don't have to do anything ... Just a sentence in a software license ..."We will fork those who don't honer PTS and AGS if our community demands it and if we happened to have the resource to do it."

something like that.

support, I agree future independent DAC should continue honer AGS-PTS.
which I mean independent DAC means the DAC  can't build in new BTS.
I think this is not a problem, and should  persisted.
to avoid competition with ourself, III can claim all future independent DAC will all honer the snapshot at 11.5.

[carpet ride]

A House United !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[liondani]

A House Divided

24" If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25" If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
26" If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!…

We must unite  as soon as possible, to be able to stand...
If you think about it deeper, bytemaster has done all of this, to have as all united as an end result!
He want us united in the long term and not only at the early days... if you know what I mean...

I am ALL IN for...

A House UNITED !!!

[kisa]

Is it just me, or is a lot of the hatred for these changes coming directly from the Chinese community? The majority on this board seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of the proposed changes, but we keep getting these random attacks from Chinese board members who are absolutely against it...

Is there some kind of miscommunication going on here? These changes are necessary and will greatly benefit the ecosystem as a whole...I'm struggling to see how anyone can't see that.

I think that a lot more of them went and bought DNS on one of the chinese exchanges, and then got screwed by the unfairly low DNS allocation.

Probably right...

BM in the meantime please be assured of utmost respect from majority of the community for all your talent, leadership, dedication, fairness, endurance and hard work! Naturally in a diverse crowd people often deviate from your perspective, and its impossible to please everyone. Still, any personal offence is misplaced and should be attributed to different communication culture, emotional reactions, incoherent expectations, and possibly disrespectful character. Wish you to overcome disappointments from such personal remarks quickly!

[alphaBar]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

How presumptuous of you to think that the majority of PTS holders have such a large stake (like yourself) that they would be forced to "move the market" in order to liquidate their position. You are completely wrong about this, and you should start looking at the issue from the perspective of a person who owns a small amount (the majority of users) rather than assuming everyone has a 10% stake (like I3). For the average investor (80% of PTS users), you have taken their liquidity and locked them in for two years. Welfare for the rich strikes again. On the flipside you have granted AGS liquidity at the expense of PTS and in violation of the social contract. Thanks for the "gift" of sell pressure that was never supposed to exist.

Lastly I will say that the sharedrop model dies with this proposal. Any serious DAC that wants to use the Bitshares Toolkit will compete at least partially with the superDAC and would be insane to sharedrop to their direct competitor. This is not just consolidation, it is a hostile takeover combined with a complete abandonment of the "DAC platform" model which encouraged third parties to build on the Toolkit. Before this nonsense if BitsharesX failed there was always a possibility that another banking DAC would fork the Toolkit and sharedrop to PTS/AGS. In this way, PTS/AGS was a sort of hedge against the failure of any one DAC and was an avenue for at least partial diversification. Consolidating VOTE, DNS, and any other DACs is not as much of an issue (if done fairly and correctly), but I'm still in favor of PTS/AGS being moved to a bare GENESIS chain. My 2 cents.

[Thom]

I dream of a day where the forum feels less like an episode of The View and more like the start of an emerging technology.

+100%

[Ander]

Is it just me, or is a lot of the hatred for these changes coming directly from the Chinese community? The majority on this board seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of the proposed changes, but we keep getting these random attacks from Chinese board members who are absolutely against it...

Is there some kind of miscommunication going on here? These changes are necessary and will greatly benefit the ecosystem as a whole...I'm struggling to see how anyone can't see that.

I think that a lot more of them went and bought DNS on one of the chinese exchanges, and then got screwed by the unfairly low DNS allocation.

[Musewhale]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

I am not care about liquidity.Because it was wrong at the begining.
What i really care about is that no one have the right to destroy the white paper, no one have the right to destroy the social contract, no one have the right to be a dictator of the community.
Why does a discussion turn into a decision?And it is necessary for us  to continue the discussion  on the wrong direction?
In other words,iii create the pts/ags/bts_toolkit/btsx and we admit,but you have no right to destroy them.When they were born, they belong to the community,not you.

I don't know whether you understand what I mean, but I want to discuss so far  so that we can reduce the loss of the community ASAP.

 
I am deeply disappointed

[Riverhead]

I like where this is going,I just need to work on some fix and see if you can approve.
If we do this right,it'll actually be a great sign of understanding and corporation for this amazing community.

I would love to mend fences for all parties involved .

 

[Stan]

If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%.

Tell them that we don't expect any forks worth while to fork at just 20%... I think third parties will do what is best... we always said that AGS/PTS was voluntariy and best practice is 10%.... not everyone does 10%.   The point is that I wouldn't worry about 3rd parties much... it would be like complaining that you aren't getting a large stake in all of the alt coins.

The people asking for semi-mandatory guidance for 3rd DAC don't care about the actual value.
Just one in a thousand jackpot would be nice to live with.
Even if they got a thousand junk DAC's 20%,they will laugh,because their faith in you were not in vain.

Even if 3rd party dac don't give 20% after your semi-mandatory guidance,they don't care.

Even if in the end,all the 3rd party DAC are Junk ,they don't care.They just want a gesture.

Happy to do more than make a gesture.
Happy to continue to make the recommendation that any 3rd party developer that honors the original AGS/PTS should be honored and supported.  Two examples are BitShares Music and BitShares Play.   

But keep in mind the Ten Laws of the Crypto Universe.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2876.msg35841#msg35841

Developers will do what they think they need to do to succeed.
And the Ten Laws will incentivize them to honor the strongest supporters.

We promise to compete aggressively according to those natural laws.
(A much more polite way of saying what you seem to want.)

Either way we intend to show PTS/AGS/BTS are three great ways for a new DAC to win.

I like where this is going,I just need to work on some fix and see if you can approve.
If we do this right,it'll actually be a great sign of understanding and corporation for this amazing community.
I used to do lots of these PR and writing stuff for a living,so I see the significance in this specific topic.

As a leader , it's important to let the people of the community know that they still matter to the Bitshares community,not just a cold word saying that "some people do not like the plan,they can vote with their feet",that's effective,but would be wrong.

I hold you and Bytemaster to a higher standard  , because this cause of Bitshares actually meant something to me , because I believe in my heart that you guys are far more greater than other guys .

I would love to mend fences for all parties involved .

So would we.  I hope everything we have said will catch up soon through the language and culture filters.

We recognize China is our biggest base and would never, never, never intentionally wrong them.
That means using our best judgment to maximize their long term benefit and not bowing to short term pressures.
We have always been clear we are pursuing a long term vision and not trying to generate short term gains at that expense.

[joele]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

What i really care about is that no one have the right to destroy the white paper, no one have the right to destroy the social contract, no one have the right to be a dictator of the community.
I am not care about liquidity.Because it was wrong at the begining.
Why does a discussion turn into a decision?And it is necessary for us  to continue the discussion  on the wrong direction?

Please check BM post here

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10367.msg135990#msg135990

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10357.msg135858#msg135858

[Stan]

Note to PTS holders... we didn't take your liquidity, we gave you liquidity.

PTS is liquid and remains liquid... holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.    Now they get gradual liquidity in a real DAC that is implementing all of the features they were hoping for. 

So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.

What i really care about is that no one have the right to destroy the white paper, no one have the right to destroy the social contract, no one have the right to be a dictator of the community.
I am not care about liquidity.Because it was wrong at the begining.
Why does a discussion turn into a decision?And it is necessary for us  to continue the discussion  on the wrong direction?

The proposed next step allows the community to change leadership and change directions in ten seconds.