Author Topic: PTS -> BTS ratio?  (Read 9691 times)

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Offline thisisausername

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It's unreasonable!BM's decision hurt PTSer deeply!

Please describe the value you had in PTS...   what DACs were you expecting a cut in, what percent of those DACs were you expecting to get and when did you expect those DACs to be released?
30% PTS, 30% AGS VOTE that looked like it was going to out-compete BTSX for a little bit there...

Not to say that the plan at that time was any good, the competing DACs model looked to be headed to failure, but the merger/sharedrop is a changed expectation.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:19:01 am by thisisausername »
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Offline bytemaster

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It's unreasonable!BM's decision hurt PTSer deeply!

Please describe the value you had in PTS...   what DACs were you expecting a cut in, what percent of those DACs were you expecting to get and when did you expect those DACs to be released?
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Offline linyibo010

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That's my point - there is no real incentive to hold PTS at all with the current setup. Unless they make PTS not have to vest, which in my mind would be fair.

I mean it is liquid right now, so it's not like adding a lock to it is going to stop people from liquidating it.

I still do not get your point though....

You want BM to make such an incentive or what?

PTS is a sell-able badge in my view - "Here, I am a Bitshares enthusiast. And my self proclaimed value is X" (X is the amount of badge I have bought). I am not contributing any other value to the system except purchasing said badge, and declaring my value to be as high as that.
 ohh and btw, at any second I choose I can sell this badge for whatever I find appropriate....

The point is that PTS had a much higher value due to the fact that it is liquid, it was it's main characteristic.

When you bundle PTS and AGS into the merger, I can understand AGS liquidity being locked for 2 years, but the PTS should not be locked in.

The argument for the locking of liquidity was to prevent sudden dumping of BTS, but the thing is PTS is already liquid, so in fact it is causing people to dump PTS and buy BTSX. Since BTSX will remain liquid when it switched to BTS, while PTS portion will suddenly be locked.
It's unreasonable!BM's decision hurt PTSer deeply!

Offline James212

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That's my point - there is no real incentive to hold PTS at all with the current setup. Unless they make PTS not have to vest, which in my mind would be fair.

I mean it is liquid right now, so it's not like adding a lock to it is going to stop people from liquidating it.

I still do not get your point though....

You want BM to make such an incentive or what?

PTS is a sell-able badge in my view - "Here, I am a Bitshares enthusiast. And my self proclaimed value is X" (X is the amount of badge I have bought). I am not contributing any other value to the system except purchasing said badge, and declaring my value to be as high as that.
 ohh and btw, at any second I choose I can sell this badge for whatever I find appropriate....

The point is that PTS had a much higher value due to the fact that it is liquid, it was it's main characteristic.

When you bundle PTS and AGS into the merger, I can understand AGS liquidity being locked for 2 years, but the PTS should not be locked in.

The argument for the locking of liquidity was to prevent sudden dumping of BTS, but the thing is PTS is already liquid, so in fact it is causing people to dump PTS and buy BTSX. Since BTSX will remain liquid when it switched to BTS, while PTS portion will suddenly be locked.

 +5%  Bitmeat does make a valid point.   A good portion of the value of PTS is that it is liquid.......(this is not monitory value mind you but it is value none the less).  The deal is taking away the liquidity  (somewhat) from PTS owners but still provides  the same split to AGS which is GAINING liquidity..

I hesitate to make this point only because as a PTS owner, I really just want to accept BMs slip proposal, get on with the merger and move forward.  I'm ok to do that.   However the facts are the facts.
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Offline mf-tzo

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Offline bytemaster

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Yes.. there will be a "collect vested shares" button on each account under an advanced tab.

But will there be any benefit for not collecting the shares too soon? Will I receive less shares if I collect them whenever that button appears? I don't want to collect any shares if no need be and lose some yield or whatever..

If you collect early no penalty other than trx fee.
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Offline mf-tzo

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Yes.. there will be a "collect vested shares" button on each account under an advanced tab.

But will there be any benefit for not collecting the shares too soon? Will I receive less shares if I collect them whenever that button appears? I don't want to collect any shares if no need be and lose some yield or whatever..

Offline xeroc

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I think the airdrip ( ;) ) shares are collected like yield. You claim them by importing the private keys of the PTS/DNS/AGS wallets and every time you do a transaction (like voting) whatever has vested transfers in like yield. Is it going to work differently?
That's news to me .. never read this anywhere ..

AFAIK .. it's like an airdrop .. you can import your stake as usual.. and either the wallet won't let you take out .. or the wallet won't display the "full" amount

Offline bytemaster

Thank you Stan. Regarding the share claims? Can we claim all our shares on the 6th Nov or not? Has this finalized? Is there a benefit if we hold and do not claim our shares? For how long?
you can gradually withdraw you "airdropped" shares over a 2 years period ..
so for example .. first 50% after 1 year .. second 50% after another year .. or you split it into 4 pieces .. what ever you like .. linear over 2 years!

this does NOT include BTSX .. they will stay liquid and tradable ..

I think the airdrip ( ;) ) shares are collected like yield. You claim them by importing the private keys of the PTS/DNS/AGS wallets and every time you do a transaction (like voting) whatever has vested transfers in like yield. Is it going to work differently?

Yes.. there will be a "collect vested shares" button on each account under an advanced tab. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Thank you Stan. Regarding the share claims? Can we claim all our shares on the 6th Nov or not? Has this finalized? Is there a benefit if we hold and do not claim our shares? For how long?
you can gradually withdraw you "airdropped" shares over a 2 years period ..
so for example .. first 50% after 1 year .. second 50% after another year .. or you split it into 4 pieces .. what ever you like .. linear over 2 years!

this does NOT include BTSX .. they will stay liquid and tradable ..

I think the airdrip ( ;) ) shares are collected like yield. You claim them by importing the private keys of the PTS/DNS/AGS wallets and every time you do a transaction (like voting) whatever has vested transfers in like yield. Is it going to work differently?

Offline xeroc

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Thank you Stan. Regarding the share claims? Can we claim all our shares on the 6th Nov or not? Has this finalized? Is there a benefit if we hold and do not claim our shares? For how long?
you can gradually withdraw you "airdropped" shares over a 2 years period ..
so for example .. first 50% after 1 year .. second 50% after another year .. or you split it into 4 pieces .. what ever you like .. linear over 2 years!

this does NOT include BTSX .. they will stay liquid and tradable ..

Offline mf-tzo

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We don't want to expand the supply all at once for obvious reasons. 
So we have to trickle them out to everybody in consideration of everyone else.
Goal is to stay well below Bitcoin's 50 per block precedent for total of all delegates and sharedrops etc. 
This aims to ensure infusion of value exceeds infusion of supply.   :)

Thank you Stan. Regarding the share claims? Can we claim all our shares on the 6th Nov or not? Has this finalized? Is there a benefit if we hold and do not claim our shares? For how long?

Offline Riverhead

The Music snapshot has already happened. However if successful others may try to compete as well.

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Offline pseudoscops

Is PTS truly worthless as some are suggesting? According to cob, from Music, for now they have decided that they will go it alone with their own DAC. See 2nd post down on the 2nd page of this thread:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10258.15


If that is the case then a separate Music DAC will still allocated 35% of genesis to PTS holder and 35% to AGS holders post Nov 5th or am I missing something? Does this set the precedent for how PTS could live on with value in some way post VOTE/DNS merger (i.e. not become completely worthless)?


http://www1.agsexplorer.com/


I think the Music team has a very strong product. Music could position itself well for branching in to video, books etc. I just wish the incentives were strong enough to get them to join the BitShares DAC.

I've been considering buying some NOTES from the pre-sale, but I'm not sure how the pre-sale under the circumstance that they do ultimately decide to move to the BitShares DAC? Indeed I'm not sure what would happen with BitShares, would there need to be further dilution of BTSX over and above the current proposal?

Offline Stan

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Thank you Xeroc.

Don't fully get that since I thought the Dev funds were part of the initial supply of 5 bil and 3 bil and I would assume that they could convert their dev funds as well in BTS and change them to bitusd if they wanted but never mind. I do not really care anyway how this is handled..

Is there a plan finalized as to when we claim those shares? Is there a cost if we claim them on the 6th November? Is there a benefit of not claiming them for 2 years?

We don't want to expand the supply all at once for obvious reasons. 
So we have to trickle them out to everybody in consideration of everyone else.
Goal is to stay well below Bitcoin's 50 per block precedent for total of all delegates and sharedrops etc. 
This aims to ensure infusion of value exceeds infusion of supply.   :)

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.