Author Topic: Marketing Direction - Why not How or What...  (Read 23047 times)

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Offline liondani

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bitshares is something bigger than bitUSD...
don't take me wrong but the term bitUSD sounds too cheap to me.
It's like promoting in some degree the... past...
bitUSD is the digital mirror of USD and USD is 100% controlled from people that want our slavery(same with euro etc.)...
What if USD loose much of it's present "real" value in the near future because they want it to happen ?
That would mean that bitUSD will follow the decline, so our supporters with bitUSDs on their accounts would be  be "trapped" too.... Why should we follow the old system? Are we really thinking out of the box?
I think we must promote bitAssets in general and we should not promote to much on one of them, like we do right now...
We should promote the ability/option they have on our system/platform to own a basket of different global bitASSETS in a very easy way, knowing that:

1. They are 100% safe.
2. They are taking benefits/rewards for keeping them (Yield etc.)
3. They are liquid (max. 1 month delay)
4. Their privacy is 100% respected (TITAN, crypto etc...)
5. They can easy/fast/cheaply exchange from one bitASSET to another (?)
6. They can transfer/pay easy/fast/secure with minimal fees (goodbye paypal,bitcoin)
7. They can have a mixed bitASSET  portofolio without limits in quantity and value!
8. TAX FREE (what means IRS ?)
9.  ....name it...

...sorry if what I am saying doesn't make sense, maybe it is better I am going to sleep too  :)

it should be possible to code in a pegged asset that's inflation- adjusted, correct?   we could have an asset chained to 2014 dollars, might be cool

If I understand correct what you propose... we already successfully  have that  :P   Just download your client and check it!  https://bitshares-x.info/

Offline xh3

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bitshares is something bigger than bitUSD...
don't take me wrong but the term bitUSD sounds too cheap to me.
It's like promoting in some degree the... past...
bitUSD is the digital mirror of USD and USD is 100% controlled from people that want our slavery(same with euro etc.)...
What if USD loose much of it's present "real" value in the near future because they want it to happen ?
That would mean that bitUSD will follow the decline, so our supporters with bitUSDs on their accounts would be  be "trapped" too.... Why should we follow the old system? Are we really thinking out of the box?
I think we must promote bitAssets in general and we should not promote to much on one of them, like we do right now...
We should promote the ability/option they have on our system/platform to own a basket of different global bitASSETS in a very easy way, knowing that:

1. They are 100% safe.
2. They are taking benefits/rewards for keeping them (Yield etc.)
3. They are liquid (max. 1 month delay)
4. Their privacy is 100% respected (TITAN, crypto etc...)
5. They can easy/fast/cheaply exchange from one bitASSET to another (?)
6. They can transfer/pay easy/fast/secure with minimal fees (goodbye paypal,bitcoin)
7. They can have a mixed bitASSET  portofolio without limits in quantity and value!
8. TAX FREE (what means IRS ?)
9.  ....name it...

...sorry if what I am saying doesn't make sense, maybe it is better I am going to sleep too  :)

it should be possible to code in a pegged asset that's inflation- adjusted, correct?   we could have an asset chained to 2014 dollars, might be cool

Offline Empirical1.1

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Agreed 100% with everything Luckybit has posted. Very, very powerful points in those posts. Utility and "what can it do for me?" is most important first and foremost, and the ideology will inevitably follow...

100% Agree with Nomorehereoes' 100% agreement with luckbit. Utility. Utility. Utility.

I understand the desire to emulate Apple's approach to marketing in some way. Their 1984 Superbowl 'Think different' ad for the Macintosh was one of the best TV ads ever made. But the Macintosh was not Apple's first product, they had already proven themselves to the world at large - they were already famous. They could afford to take risks with big ideological, slightly wooly, messaging as part of their advertising. They were big enough and organised enough to do that. We are not at that stage yet.

The Macintosh had a screen and a keyboard and a mouse and although we all now know that the Apple ecosystem became much more, most users (not developers) at the time would have seen the Macintosh as a way of using a handful of software packages to get their work done and perhaps be more creative. The ultimate USP was that Macintosh owners could do these things more efficiently and in a slicker way than they could on any other PC available at the time. That value and utility along with a little aspirational messaging was enough to propel Apple forward. Trying to sell the vision of a different society, as yet unrealised, as the product is a very different kettle of fish. That sounds like what Dan was suggesting, but I might have misinterpreted?

Luckily most of the people who will have read this thread will not have freaked at the sentiment from Dan's OP, including myself. But in the wider world I think we have to be very very careful with this kind of language being part of core messaging:

Lets reimagine everything, think out side the box and create a society where we can be secure and where threats of violence by the government are overwhelmed by non-violent cooperation.  We all long for freedom, it is universal.    We all long for security.   No one likes theft and violence. 

It's the sort of language that will put off or even scare average users. Elon Musk's reason for creating Tesla and Space-X are largely to do with his desire to do good. To reduce global warming and help heal the planet with Tesla and to give us humans a better chance of long term survival by exploring space and creating a human colony on Mars with SpaceX . I don't see his desire to colonise Mars or to cool down the planet featuring in either company's marketing material in any significant way. Sure he talks about these goals and his beliefs when speaking and when interviewed, but it's not part of the core marketing message aimed at his customers.

First and foremost it's value and utility that will bring the masses to Bitshares. To some extent novelty/shiny-cool-stuff will do this too as is always the way. There is a difference between a marketing strategy that lists boring specs and Ghz as a means to grab attention (like Dell used to) vs one that wraps up it's marketing message in imagery and slightly amorphous ideological/aspirational messaging (like Apple).  I'm up for more of the latter - it can be a very solid strategy. Lot's of non-specific talk and imagery signifying freedom and individuality works and is probably a very good fit for Bitshares from a marketing point of view. But the latter is not the same as wholly defining an ideology as if it's part of the product itself and then shouting about it. I think we are much more likely to scare people off this way - i.e. the lets create a new society message. 9.99 people out of 10 will take the view that you have no chance of breaking the status quo (or colonising mars). They'll say it's impractical and unrealistic and then they'll switch off. I think Bitcoin suffers from this, people switch off because they can never see it truly taking over from traditional fiat. Their lack of understanding of it's potential slows adoption and the innovations that would create more utility. If we saw more utility within the Bitcoin ecosystem then perhaps things would change more swiftly. Bitshares has the opportunity and toolkit to demonstrate that crypto is not just about another way to pay for things. It's so much more, but it's utility not ideology that will demonstrate this.

Maybe I'm wrong and there is a way to weave both ideology and utility into messaging in a more palatable way for users. But I think it's a tall order and perhaps too risky to spell out the ultimate vision at this stage. Maybe one day the Bitshares brand will be big enough and established enough so that we can consider doing that, but at the moment it simply isn't. There's too much danger that we'll sound like a bunch of cranks, people are not ready for the message yet.

As a marketing strategy to attract bright and talented developers - well that's a different story. Here perhaps the vision and ideology is what will get the best and brightest through the door. They'll have the sense to understand what DACs offer themselves and wider society. But that's an entirely different marketing program to the the one you'd might execute in order to attract the average users we'll need to attract in order to grow.

Last week was a rough one in many ways, nerves were frayed, but I think we are pointed in the right direction now. Sorry if this contrary view brings even more rain to BM's parade, but I believe it's extremely important to discuss these things and make the right decisions. Almost as important as anything else we could be discussing. Without users we are dead in the water.

I do think we will colonise Mars one day and I think that Dan's vision for a DAC will come to pass in some form. Hopefully it will be by way of the Bitshares SuperDAC. I want to take the opportunity to express my appreciation for all the hard work that Dan and the various teams have done to push things forward so far. I've done very little in practical terms myself, though I'm very excited about the idea of someday working for a DAC. Perhaps even the SuperDAC.

For the record I've worked at a senior level within the advertising industry here in London for nearly twenty years. One client was actually one of the aforementioned big brands too and so I know at least a little bit about this kind of stuff. My Spidey senses are telling me this is a really big deal and that the path we take needs to be considered extremely carefully.

If you're in London you'll know disillusionment with banks, banker bonuses, EU, MSM and the political establishment are key drivers of MASSIVE change in this country & across Europe right now. While  I believe in utility & simplicity, the BTS vision is so relevant and on the pulse that not tapping  into that sentiment and leveraging it for the benefit of BTS in some market segments would be an opportunity missed imo.

Offline donkeypong

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Remember why people downloaded Napster at first. They didn't download Napster because they understood the philosophy of Napster. Most people using Bittorrent aren't crypto-anarchists even if the developer might have been. What people care about is what the technology enables them to do and how the technology can better their lives.

If we want to show what Bitshares can do and how it can better people's lives then lead by example.

It's not about making a political statement. That will come after you've reached critical mass.

Bitcoin in my opinion failed to reach Napster levels precisely because politics surrounded it from it's birth.

Amen! Let's keep our eyes on the ball.

Offline pseudoscops

Agreed 100% with everything Luckybit has posted. Very, very powerful points in those posts. Utility and "what can it do for me?" is most important first and foremost, and the ideology will inevitably follow...

100% Agree with Nomorehereoes' 100% agreement with luckbit. Utility. Utility. Utility.

I understand the desire to emulate Apple's approach to marketing in some way. Their 1984 Superbowl 'Think different' ad for the Macintosh was one of the best TV ads ever made. But the Macintosh was not Apple's first product, they had already proven themselves to the world at large - they were already famous. They could afford to take risks with big ideological, slightly wooly, messaging as part of their advertising. They were big enough and organised enough to do that. We are not at that stage yet.

The Macintosh had a screen and a keyboard and a mouse and although we all now know that the Apple ecosystem became much more, most users (not developers) at the time would have seen the Macintosh as a way of using a handful of software packages to get their work done and perhaps be more creative. The ultimate USP was that Macintosh owners could do these things more efficiently and in a slicker way than they could on any other PC available at the time. That value and utility along with a little aspirational messaging was enough to propel Apple forward. Trying to sell the vision of a different society, as yet unrealised, as the product is a very different kettle of fish. That sounds like what Dan was suggesting, but I might have misinterpreted?

Luckily most of the people who will have read this thread will not have freaked at the sentiment from Dan's OP, including myself. But in the wider world I think we have to be very very careful with this kind of language being part of core messaging:

Lets reimagine everything, think out side the box and create a society where we can be secure and where threats of violence by the government are overwhelmed by non-violent cooperation.  We all long for freedom, it is universal.    We all long for security.   No one likes theft and violence. 

It's the sort of language that will put off or even scare average users. Elon Musk's reason for creating Tesla and Space-X are largely to do with his desire to do good. To reduce global warming and help heal the planet with Tesla and to give us humans a better chance of long term survival by exploring space and creating a human colony on Mars with SpaceX . I don't see his desire to colonise Mars or to cool down the planet featuring in either company's marketing material in any significant way. Sure he talks about these goals and his beliefs when speaking and when interviewed, but it's not part of the core marketing message aimed at his customers.

First and foremost it's value and utility that will bring the masses to Bitshares. To some extent novelty/shiny-cool-stuff will do this too as is always the way. There is a difference between a marketing strategy that lists boring specs and Ghz as a means to grab attention (like Dell used to) vs one that wraps up it's marketing message in imagery and slightly amorphous ideological/aspirational messaging (like Apple).  I'm up for more of the latter - it can be a very solid strategy. Lot's of non-specific talk and imagery signifying freedom and individuality works and is probably a very good fit for Bitshares from a marketing point of view. But the latter is not the same as wholly defining an ideology as if it's part of the product itself and then shouting about it. I think we are much more likely to scare people off this way - i.e. the lets create a new society message. 9.99 people out of 10 will take the view that you have no chance of breaking the status quo (or colonising mars). They'll say it's impractical and unrealistic and then they'll switch off. I think Bitcoin suffers from this, people switch off because they can never see it truly taking over from traditional fiat. Their lack of understanding of it's potential slows adoption and the innovations that would create more utility. If we saw more utility within the Bitcoin ecosystem then perhaps things would change more swiftly. Bitshares has the opportunity and toolkit to demonstrate that crypto is not just about another way to pay for things. It's so much more, but it's utility not ideology that will demonstrate this.

Maybe I'm wrong and there is a way to weave both ideology and utility into messaging in a more palatable way for users. But I think it's a tall order and perhaps too risky to spell out the ultimate vision at this stage. Maybe one day the Bitshares brand will be big enough and established enough so that we can consider doing that, but at the moment it simply isn't. There's too much danger that we'll sound like a bunch of cranks, people are not ready for the message yet.

As a marketing strategy to attract bright and talented developers - well that's a different story. Here perhaps the vision and ideology is what will get the best and brightest through the door. They'll have the sense to understand what DACs offer themselves and wider society. But that's an entirely different marketing program to the the one you'd might execute in order to attract the average users we'll need to attract in order to grow.

Last week was a rough one in many ways, nerves were frayed, but I think we are pointed in the right direction now. Sorry if this contrary view brings even more rain to BM's parade, but I believe it's extremely important to discuss these things and make the right decisions. Almost as important as anything else we could be discussing. Without users we are dead in the water.

I do think we will colonise Mars one day and I think that Dan's vision for a DAC will come to pass in some form. Hopefully it will be by way of the Bitshares SuperDAC. I want to take the opportunity to express my appreciation for all the hard work that Dan and the various teams have done to push things forward so far. I've done very little in practical terms myself, though I'm very excited about the idea of someday working for a DAC. Perhaps even the SuperDAC.

For the record I've worked at a senior level within the advertising industry here in London for nearly twenty years. One client was actually one of the aforementioned big brands too and so I know at least a little bit about this kind of stuff. My Spidey senses are telling me this is a really big deal and that the path we take needs to be considered extremely carefully.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 04:35:15 pm by pseudoscops »

Offline Rune

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I'm a little worried that BitShares may go the way of Linux; that is, an excellent product (superior, in fact to alternatives for most typical use cases) that is stuck without widespread adoption (at least for desktops - linux does dominate servers and mobile).

Maybe one of the reason why linux never worked is that linux tried to sell the why, and most normal people don't get the why.

Where linux "succeeded" in the marketplace was where it became transparent to normal people. Most normal users do not know that embedded devices (e.g., their cars/airplanes) are most likely running linux, when they visit a website they are most likely running linux, when they get the new smartphone they are most likely getting linux.

I think BitShares can succeed in that way, as the backend to more commercial/user-friendly/normal people sites or apps. Possibly becoming the payment backend for some ecommerce or the backend to some exchange/asset web site.

How many people do you know who owns an android phone?

Offline suwoder

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I'm a little worried that BitShares may go the way of Linux; that is, an excellent product (superior, in fact to alternatives for most typical use cases) that is stuck without widespread adoption (at least for desktops - linux does dominate servers and mobile).

Maybe one of the reason why linux never worked is that linux tried to sell the why, and most normal people don't get the why.

Where linux "succeeded" in the marketplace was where it became transparent to normal people. Most normal users do not know that embedded devices (e.g., their cars/airplanes) are most likely running linux, when they visit a website they are most likely running linux, when they get the new smartphone they are most likely getting linux.

I think BitShares can succeed in that way, as the backend to more commercial/user-friendly/normal people sites or apps. Possibly becoming the payment backend for some ecommerce or the backend to some exchange/asset web site.

 +5% +5% +5% +5%

Offline Method-X

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Something people here need to understand: a powerful, emotional message and product utility are not binary options. You need an emotional message to get the attention of average people. Once you've got their attention, impress them with awesome utility.

Bytemaster: Read Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers by Geoffrey A. Moore <-- Written over 20 years ago, it's just as relevant today as it was then. I cannot recommend this book enough.

Offline BTSdac

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Offline Empirical1.1

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Just like music will have peertracks, Bitshares will succeed based on the frontend clients we build on it. Like procter and gamble, normal ppl interact with their brands and products and not p&g directly.

Our primary market by far will be BitAssets in their various forms, so people's perception of BitAssets & BitShares the DAC that backs them is very important imo.

Even the various front ends such as Peertracks/BDNS will generally have a strong independent/freedomesque type image so BitShares on the back end should be associated with similar values and inspire trust and confidence.

Offline maqifrnswa

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Just like music will have peertracks, Bitshares will succeed based on the frontend clients we build on it. Like procter and gamble, normal ppl interact with their brands and products and not p&g directly.

 +5% This is what I was trying to articulate. It's the opposite of facebook/gmail/twitter/instagram. Normal people LOVE those services, and don't care at all about privacy/data ownership/etc. BitShares can be the opposite of facebook: offer something people will love, but without the baggage. In the end, people have to love your service first. The other stuff will be just "icing" to them if they ever even learn about what it is.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline Pheonike

Just like music will have peertracks, Bitshares will succeed based on the frontend clients we build on it. Like procter and gamble, normal ppl interact with their brands and products and not p&g directly.

Offline oco101

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+5% Awesome post! We just need to work on conveying that message in a compelling way that gets publicity. Bitcoin spread because it let people stand FOR something. For the first time, we were able to opt-out of a system we no longer believed in. It was about opting out of an old, unfair system and joining a new, fair one. Selling the world on BitUSD is about a vision, a dream, a philosophy.

This + bitAssets =magic

Offline liondani

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These ideals, principles and philosophy are great for personal motivation to build something great.  Your core builder/supporters will recognize this message without being sold on it. 

Marketing out of principle and ideals is a sure way to lose your investment. 

For most people all they care about is whether it makes their life easier in a clear/tangible/practical way.  Without a core utility, no amount of idealism will sell a product.  Thankfully BitShares is brimming with utility and clear advantages that can immediately and significantly change peoples lives.   

Even if you appeal to someones ideals, for the people who need it most, if they can't use your product or don't see a clear utility, the risk is too great to support.  They need utility that is immediately tangible.

People will use your product and see the benefits and only later develop and clarify their own philosophy/ideals and this is what will motivate them to bring it to their family/friends/neighbors.

Market the utility/tangible benefits and cultivate the ideal.
You need to know why first and then have a great product second. 

The why can appeal mainstream. I don't intend to push anarchism on the masses.   But if we can tap into instinct and emotion then we will get a higher conversion rate. 
These instincts and emotions that sell a product are not the same as the ones that characterize your philosophy.  (e.g. Sex sells, principle doesn't.)

bitshares is something bigger than bitUSD...
don't take me wrong but the term bitUSD sounds too cheap to me.
It's like promoting in some degree the... past...
bitUSD is the digital mirror of USD and USD is 100% controlled from people that want our slavery(same with euro etc.)...
What if USD loose much of it's present "real" value in the near future because they want it to happen ?
That would mean that bitUSD will follow the decline, so our supporters with bitUSDs on their accounts would be  be "trapped" too.... Why should we follow the old system? Are we really thinking out of the box?
I think we must promote bitAssets in general and we should not promote to much on one of them, like we do right now...
We should promote the ability/option they have on our system/platform to own a basket of different global bitASSETS in a very easy way, knowing that:

1. They are 100% safe.
2. They are taking benefits/rewards for keeping them (Yield etc.)
3. They are liquid (max. 1 month delay)
4. Their privacy is 100% respected (TITAN, crypto etc...)
5. They can easy/fast/cheaply exchange from one bitASSET to another (?)
6. They can transfer/pay easy/fast/secure with minimal fees (goodbye paypal,bitcoin)
7. They can have a mixed bitASSET  portofolio without limits in quantity and value!
8. TAX FREE (what means IRS ?)
9.  ....name it...

...sorry if what I am saying doesn't make sense, maybe it is better I am going to sleep too  :)

I think the real innovation is bitgld.  Just google gold backed digital currency and see what you get.  The world has long sought a safe gold backed digital currency and bitgld is the closest you are going to get to owning and being abe to use the real thing in a trustless, decentralized digital format.  This could be the best way to ease the Peter Schiff's of the world into the idea of digital currency. 

 +5% agreed

 +5%  I agree too....
...until we have a new idea

« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 02:46:05 pm by liondani »

Offline Empirical1.1

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 +5% I like the vision.

I think I'm leaning to that it should be a part of the overall marketing message, but depending on the specific campaign depends on how much you push that angle. Even among mainstream there is a big anti-Banker/Wall Street/Fed/1% sentiment that is worth tapping into imo.

I would say it's important that the 10-20% of base BTS supporters who are the most vocal & will drive the public perception, believe in the vision otherwise it's a real uphill battle.

A DAC is obviously very vulnerable to any centralised weak spots, so our greatest individual talents & strengths are by definition our biggest potential weakness too. So on the investor side it's less about the vision of decentralisation but more about the specifics because it's how they value BTS

-  Is BitShares decentralised in practice? If not when will it be?

- In order to be successful, how much trust in practice do investors need to place in one man or small powerful group etc. & for how long?

Are the kind of specific questions investors will be more interested in