Author Topic: BM killed the pts and ags on 11.05  (Read 6684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitmeat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
Why 7% of 10%? PTS hasn't gone anywhere. If a DAC wants to air drop 10% PTS they still can.
Exactly.  And it's already happening:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848182.0;all

All this FUD about PTS/AGS death is getting old

You can't be serious. :)

Offline yellowecho

Why 7% of 10%? PTS hasn't gone anywhere. If a DAC wants to air drop 10% PTS they still can.
Exactly.  And it's already happening:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848182.0;all

All this FUD about PTS/AGS death is getting old
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline Riverhead

Why 7% of 10%? PTS hasn't gone anywhere. If a DAC wants to air drop 10% PTS they still can.

Offline bitmeat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
    • View Profile
AGS cannot be 'killed' because it's a public receipt of donations for development.  PTS will continue to live after 11.05.  Aren't I3 salaries are securitized in PTS, too?

Yeah, but instead of 10% of all future DACs, PTS and AGS will now be getting 7% of 10% or... 0.7%. That's I think the biggest blow to the PTS/AGS holders. That of course is countered by the fact that they get to have a bunch of BTS thrown at them.

While I agree with the change, it is perceived by many as an abuse of power, and makes people question what else might change in the future.

I think it is a step in the right direction, but can't say I am happy with how it was achieved.

Offline yellowecho

AGS cannot be 'killed' because it's a public receipt of donations for development.  PTS will continue to live after 11.05.  Aren't I3 salaries are securitized in PTS, too?
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
 BM killed the pts and ags!
 nobody will trust 3i,nobody will donation 3i!
 why?
 just look at the ptser and agser!
老子早就不想当代表了

Offline alphaBar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
3i should do DPOS,not others
not AlphaBar.
not me.

The whole point of the consolidation/merger is that bytemaster and 3i can't do everything, and can't answer to everyone.  If they fixed PTS and made it what we want, then they'd be neglecting BTSX, and a different group of shareholders would get loud.  PTS and BTSX in some regards, are in direct competition with each other.  The consolidation is an effort made so that all incentives can be aligned in the future.  Its unfortunate that this decision couldn't please anybody, but look at it this way - the people who got burned today would eventually get neglected in the future.  The same group would be demanding for bytemasters time and attention, and the only way to give that would be to neglect a different project.  We want to compete with the world, not the existing community, because its still not big enough.

Respectfully, I cannot disagree more strongly with this assessment. The idea that a bare-bones DPOS chain would “compete directly” with BTS is just plain wrong. I see a complete reversal of strategy happening on this forum and, frankly, it is frightening. We’ve abandoned the “open platform” model of the Bitshares Toolkit in favor of protectionism and centralization. Bytemaster is a smart dude, but the assumption that any innovative idea must have his blessing and must consume his limited resource is just plain wrong. Why should we sink or swim on the basis of a single DAC? The original vision of the Bitshares Toolkit was collaborative and open. 3rd party developers would be encouraged to fork the toolkit and to innovate. Now it seems that we’ve reverted to the very model that Dan campaigned against in the Bitcoin space - that one chain would eventually rule them all. What is the price of all this protectionism? Even if it were true that individual DACs would indirectly compete in the marketplace, why do we assume that this is some sort of a “failure”?

I understand that Dan himself, as an individual, cannot work on competing alternatives. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not to position the Toolkit as an open platform for innovation by 3rd party DACs. When I hear people calling for an end to PTS and AGS, it signals to me that we’ve abandoned this vision. Dan doesn’t need to personally develop each DAC, but I think he can do certain things to keep the platform open and to incentivize development by third parties. For example:

* Keep and promote PTS and AGS as sharedrop instruments for future DACs. (Thank you for the recent change of position on this.)
* Create a reasonable and voluntary divestment strategy for the Bitshares Trust to ensure that 3rd party DACs are incentivized to sharedrop for a fair and balanced distribution.
* Either contribute to, or promote the efforts of others who wish to separate the core DPOS code base from DAC-specific applications such as BTSX, DNS, and Vote. Separating the code base would go a long way towards incentivizing 3rd party development. Not only is this good practice from an engineering perspective, but it lowers the barrier to entry for the developer who has an idea for “the next great DAC”.

If a superior technology is built on the Toolkit, then as shareholders of AGS and PTS we would greatly benefit from it. Pushing 3rd party devs and DACs away from the platform will not prevent the existence of competing alternatives to BTS. More than likely it just ensure that those alternatives are built elsewhere and that we as a community do not benefit from them.

Offline vegolino

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Reality is Information
    • View Profile
3i should do DPOS,not others
not AlphaBar.
not me.

The whole point of the consolidation/merger is that bytemaster and 3i can't do everything, and can't answer to everyone.  If they fixed PTS and made it what we want, then they'd be neglecting BTSX, and a different group of shareholders would get loud.  PTS and BTSX in some regards, are in direct competition with each other.  The consolidation is an effort made so that all incentives can be aligned in the future.  Its unfortunate that this decision couldn't please anybody, but look at it this way - the people who got burned today would eventually get neglected in the future.  The same group would be demanding for bytemasters time and attention, and the only way to give that would be to neglect a different project.  We want to compete with the world, not the existing community, because its still not big enough.
  +5%

Offline sschechter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
3i should do DPOS,not others
not AlphaBar.
not me.

The whole point of the consolidation/merger is that bytemaster and 3i can't do everything, and can't answer to everyone.  If they fixed PTS and made it what we want, then they'd be neglecting BTSX, and a different group of shareholders would get loud.  PTS and BTSX in some regards, are in direct competition with each other.  The consolidation is an effort made so that all incentives can be aligned in the future.  Its unfortunate that this decision couldn't please anybody, but look at it this way - the people who got burned today would eventually get neglected in the future.  The same group would be demanding for bytemasters time and attention, and the only way to give that would be to neglect a different project.  We want to compete with the world, not the existing community, because its still not big enough.
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

zerosum

  • Guest
All in this post is 100% true, if you do not believe me I can provide pictures.

I have a 15 year old car. It is not running...it needs repairs for about $750 to make it run to begin with(that was when it stopped moving, now it is probably 3x more). Its sell price is about that much ($750) if I am lucky. I am also paying  $49/mo. in insurance, $120/y for license plates and $45/y for city sticker. It takes space in my driveway and makes everything more hard especially in the winter. I live in a place that sees a lot of snow, and my driveway is big only by New York standards.


Now, tell me that I am smart, to have kept and to continue to keep that car in that condition (and spot) for the last 3 years.

Offline alphaBar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
I support multiple dacs in the community, I just cannot work on multiple dacs.

Dan, PTS is ill-suited to serve as a sharedrop instrument with the Bitshares Trust owning 13.5% of the money supply. I need you to make a good faith effort to address this by agreeing to a reasonable voluntary divestment strategy. I've outlined my proposal here - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10701.0. We'd be setting ourselves up for failure if we ignored this issue...

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
3i should do DPOS,not others
not AlphaBar.
not me.

alphaBar has expressed an interest to upgrade PTS with a team.  He sees PTS DPOS as a bitshare spin-off that would bring positive energies to both BTS and a  future for PTS.  BM and I3 could provide some help to this PTS DPOS team so that they can stand on their feet.  This would bring benefits to PTS holders, beyond the 5th Nov snapshot.  And I3 would be proud to see a truly independent offspring from its open-source work.  Would you like to see such a future?
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
3i should do DPOS,not others
not AlphaBar.
not me.
老子早就不想当代表了

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil
nobody will mine pts after 11.05
btc38.com stop trade the pts after11.05
BM you should think a way to protection PTS.if not PTS wil dead

Last I heard, AlphaBar was working on a DPOS replacement for PTS.
Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Why would the want BM's "belssing"? Would you care about Litecoin having BM's blessing?

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
3i should  protection PTS. not others!
because  if have 10 people develop 10 new PTSs.
which one will the true new PTS?
老子早就不想当代表了

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
I support multiple dacs in the community, I just cannot work on multiple dacs.

And if someone managed to keep PTS and DNS going after 11.5  , will they have your blessing ?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 01:01:20 pm by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline bytemaster

Testz and others are on it. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
nobody will mine pts after 11.05
btc38.com stop trade the pts after11.05
BM you should think a way to protection PTS.if not PTS wil dead
老子早就不想当代表了

Offline Riverhead

I think people need to come to terms with the notion that there are other very skilled and creative developers out there besides BM. There's no doubt BM is a great coder but other DAC's and projects can succeed without him. In fact I would even go so far as to say other DAC's and projects NEED to succeed without him. This new ecosystem cannot sit on one man's shoulders and still be called a success.

Offline bytemaster

I support multiple dacs in the community, I just cannot work on multiple dacs. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile
Dammit I wrote a nice thing about how Dan probably doesn't exactly want to do this but has been pushed in this direction.

PTS will live on just fine.  It doesn't really matter much, we can route around issues and make it more decentralized before.  (Along with BTS)

We just need to rebuild a community that is based around multiple DACs.  The code is still there and available. 

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Exactly. As AGS holder I feel disappointment from the BTSX snapshot. After that date new investors are basically used for pumping BTSX. VOTE and DNS was nothing but shame. Our only hope is BitShares Music.
I understand none of your three sentences .. maybe my fault  :-\

Offline gaba

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Exactly. As AGS holder I feel disappointment from the BTSX snapshot. After that date new investors are basically used for pumping BTSX. VOTE and DNS was nothing but shame. Our only hope is BitShares Music.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
First of all BM didn't kill anyone or anything .. not even the banks :D
Secondly, AGS and PTS will live on after that snapshot .. 3rd party developers are still supposed to snapshot from those ..
Thirdly .. if YOU lose money it's YOUR OWN FAULT! .. no one forced you to invest in highly speculative markets!

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
老子早就不想当代表了

Offline cn-members

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
BTS中文区发言人公共账号,帮助社区有效沟通与交流。
Chinese Community Spokesman Account,to help the effective communication between Chinese and other members of the community.We're not translators to do regular translations , but will help with vital ones as we see fit and available at that time.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile


What do you mean "kill the heat" ?
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline zhao150

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • 老子早就不想当代表了
    • View Profile
how to deal with pts and ags after 11.05?
nobody mine pts then pts will dead.
btc38.com stop trade the pts then pts will dead.
BM kill the pts and ags.
BM also kill the ptser and agser' heart.
am I right?

BM killed the pts and ags!
nobody will trust 3i,nobody will donation 3i!
why?
just look at the ptser and agser!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:53:23 am by zhao150 »
老子早就不想当代表了