Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap  (Read 1264 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« on: October 31, 2014, 01:21:40 PM »

I love how people blame any downside moves as pump and dumps...

I've traded for the last 8 years and I'll tell you what is most likely happening.

Typically in mergers and aquistions the buying company (BTSX) shares are sold off while the aquired company (PTS AGS) shares rally because a premium is usually paid over the current market price in order to gain full control of the company.  The former is happening in BTSX since it will be diluting in order to acquire PTS and AGS.  PTS and AGS are not rallying because there shares are not being bought at a premium in order to gain a controlling stake.  Hence you only get matching downward actions in all the different share types.

There are some cases where the acquiring company shares will rally when they take over a competitor.  This usually only happens if the market thinks the acquiring company is getting the acquired companies shares at a discount.

The reason why BTSX hasn't rallied is because BTSX was priced for perfection prior to the merger and buying PTS/AGS doesn't help it achieve any unexpected growth.  I mean did any of you think that Dan had the possibility of leaving and focusing on other stuff before he announced the merger?  I highly doubt 90% of the community did...

The announcement showed small cracks in the BTSX foundation that investors (NOT pump and dumpers) didn't see before...

In short: Bitshares is what most of us all thought BTSX would be, but with more outstanding shares... hence the selloff

Offline GaltReport

Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
Could be some truth in what you say but I would say a good dose of uncertainty is playing a part in this as well.  Once the announced changes have taken affect, I'm hopeful that the situation will stablize before moving upwards as we go forward.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12267
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 01:25:53 PM »
I likeshare you optimism ..

and if what you say is true .. than BTS(X) seems to already be a business :-P
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline stevejobsghost

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 03:05:26 PM »
Once the shares are merged and the supply increased to 2.5B then I would expect a 20% climb in market cap.  This will not help the price but will make the charts look better.

Offline Xeldal

Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2014, 06:19:23 PM »
Here's a theory,  keeping in mind that no explanation can account for everything.  There are always many things going on to account for what the price is doing.

If I had a large stake of BTSX and I wanted to get a bunch more.
This looks very appetizing.


So you buy $132,000 worth of bitUSD first.  Then Sell your BTSX on the exchanges to push the price down.

If you can push it below .000043 BTC/BTSX ( above 68.68 BTSX/bitUSD) and keep it there for a moment while youve got your orders to sell all the bitUSD you acquired earlier on the BTSX exchange ready to capture all these margin calls.

So long as it takes you less then what you profited from triggering the margin calls to do it( could be as much as 300 BTC worth of BTSX, depending on where you bough bitUSD)   you've capture a sizable profit and increased your BTSX holding.  As well, now you can buy as much of the BTSX back as you're able at the now depressed prices.


 

Offline toast

Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 06:32:12 PM »
Here's a theory,  keeping in mind that no explanation can account for everything.  There are always many things going on to account for what the price is doing.

If I had a large stake of BTSX and I wanted to get a bunch more.
This looks very appetizing.


So you buy $132,000 worth of bitUSD first.  Then Sell your BTSX on the exchanges to push the price down.

If you can push it below .000043 BTC/BTSX ( above 68.68 BTSX/bitUSD) and keep it there for a moment while youve got your orders to sell all the bitUSD you acquired earlier on the BTSX exchange ready to capture all these margin calls.

So long as it takes you less then what you profited from triggering the margin calls to do it( could be as much as 300 BTC worth of BTSX, depending on where you bough bitUSD)   you've capture a sizable profit and increased your BTSX holding.  As well, now you can buy as much of the BTSX back as you're able at the now depressed prices.


 

I wouldn't mind cleaning out some of those grandfathered shorts. They're not paying interest and get a free ride for a year.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline hughmanwho

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2014, 06:35:29 PM »
In my mind, this is why BTSX's marketcap has fallen:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.org

It's less popular because BTSX had a bubble and now people are bored and have moved on.

Being a Nxt fan, interesting Nxtforum currently ranks higher than BTSXtalk in terms of traffic:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxtforum.org

Offline Riverhead

Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2014, 06:39:19 PM »
The feeds use a median price and are taken from a few exchanges. While this attack in theory works in practice the peg isn't that easy to move. However it could be the case, as it often is, that the exchanges stay more or less in sync price wise. If you're pushing down the price on one the others will probably follow.

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2014, 06:45:53 PM »
The reason why BTSX hasn't rallied is because BTSX was priced for perfection prior to the merger and buying PTS/AGS doesn't help it achieve any unexpected growth.  I mean did any of you think that Dan had the possibility of leaving and focusing on other stuff before he announced the merger?  I highly doubt 90% of the community did...

The announcement showed small cracks in the BTSX foundation that investors (NOT pump and dumpers) didn't see before...

In short: Bitshares is what most of us all thought BTSX would be, but with more outstanding shares... hence the selloff

This part makes a perfect sense! And as Xeldal said usually there is more than one factor at play.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 06:52:10 PM by tonyk2 »

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2014, 07:19:29 PM »
In my mind, this is why BTSX's marketcap has fallen:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.org

It's less popular because BTSX had a bubble and now people are bored and have moved on.

Being a Nxt fan, interesting Nxtforum currently ranks higher than BTSXtalk in terms of traffic:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxtforum.org

Sorry the name NXT coin will not catch on.. its too dumb, you can solve the world's hunger crisis and smart money will not budge.
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2014, 07:45:46 PM »
The reason why BTSX hasn't rallied is because BTSX was priced for perfection prior to the merger and buying PTS/AGS doesn't help it achieve any unexpected growth.  I mean did any of you think that Dan had the possibility of leaving and focusing on other stuff before he announced the merger?  I highly doubt 90% of the community did...

The announcement showed small cracks in the BTSX foundation that investors (NOT pump and dumpers) didn't see before...

In short: Bitshares is what most of us all thought BTSX would be, but with more outstanding shares... hence the selloff

This part makes a perfect sense! And as Xeldal said usually there is more than one factor at play.

Yip this was pretty much my analysis...

For BTSX it will be tough short term. At the beginning of the month with highs of 0.000093 was when they thought they had a stable client & marketing incoming, with key developer focus for another 6-12 months and limited BitAsset competition.

I imagine from an exclusively BTSX shareholders point of view, BTSX is paying a 20% tax,  introducing dilution & a short term unstable client  in exchange for what they thought they already had at the beginning of the month.

I think the changes are necessary though and I'm looking forward to seeing BitSharesX become BitShares and I think we'll see the price rise steadily from there presuming no complications.

BTS will probably need to see some tangible benefits & developments before they appreciate the value of the merger and start hitting those highs again.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10760.msg141674#msg141674


Offline hughmanwho

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2014, 08:14:51 PM »
In my mind, this is why BTSX's marketcap has fallen:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.org

It's less popular because BTSX had a bubble and now people are bored and have moved on.

Being a Nxt fan, interesting Nxtforum currently ranks higher than BTSXtalk in terms of traffic:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxtforum.org

Sorry the name NXT coin will not catch on.. its too dumb, you can solve the world's hunger crisis and smart money will not budge.

Yeah.. NXT is going to die because of it's name.. just like google, kleenex, siemens or Analtech..

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2014, 08:44:50 PM »
In my mind, this is why BTSX's marketcap has fallen:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitsharestalk.org

It's less popular because BTSX had a bubble and now people are bored and have moved on.

Being a Nxt fan, interesting Nxtforum currently ranks higher than BTSXtalk in terms of traffic:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxtforum.org

Sorry the name NXT coin will not catch on.. its too dumb, you can solve the world's hunger crisis and smart money will not budge.

Yeah.. NXT is going to die because of it's name.. just like google, kleenex, siemens or Analtech..

Those names were new... NXT (the NEXT one?) really? It's what kept me out as a developer anyways. Usually first reactions are most important. Can't speak for others but I get a similar feeling from others not involved... the ones that are involved im sure are doing it for a stake to pump n dump.... hows the SuperNET thing coming along?

But you should use your own advice, analtech although it has gotten over the hump suffers from name ridicule which I'm sure hurts sales:

http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2009/01/should-analtech-change-its-name/

"Analtech faces certain challenges because of the “juvenile” humor that has developed in the past few decades and current web filters that may block the company name"
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 08:47:44 PM by jsidhu »
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline CoinHoarder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • In Cryptocoins I Trust
    • View Profile
Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2014, 08:50:58 PM »
TL;DR: Too much change too fast.. dilution and playing with the incentives of those that have previously invested in AGS and PTS is not cool.

Changing things on the fly does not work with cryptocurrencies, as people like to know what they are investing in, the long term goals of the project, and that those goals won't constantly change on a whim. By changing so many things so drastically and quickly, I am sure we have lost some big stake holders that are now uncertain of Bitshares' future and the success of some of the recent changes. For instance, dilution is a word that carries a very negative connotation in the cryptocurrency community. Also, you guys are playing with the incentives of AGS/PTS/BTS on the fly and that is not cool.. it provides uncertainty to investors and scares people away and the market is reflecting that. I am sure there will be some big PTS holders that show up over the next few weeks that don't follow Bitshares day-to-day. They will be irate when they realize that a final snapshot was taken and that their PTS holdings are now worthless. People "in the know" will come out OK as they can still sell their PTS for Bitcoins at a reasonable exchange rate, but the people that are not will not come out as good as the others.

I think combining DACs was a good move, but when you start playing with the incentives of AGS/PTS/BTS and the incentive structure of DACs themselves (dilution) on the fly, that is not cool. So, although I agree with the main philosophy of the merger, I believe the way it has been carried out was sub optimal. I suggest the Bitshares community take a long hard look in the mirror at this point in time. Write Bitshares' goals and the vision of the project, and then etch that vision in stone. Only change economic incentives of a cryptocurrency when absolutely necessary (preferably never) to the success of the project.
https://www.decentralized.tech/
Cryptocurrency Social Network
Market Data, Portfolios, Information, Links, Reviews, Forums, and Technologies

Offline Riverhead

Re: This is why BTSX has fallen in market cap
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2014, 08:52:34 PM »
There is plenty of market space for everyone. I look forward to seeing how the different technologies grow and adapt.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


 

Google+