Author Topic: Delegates are honorary positions, not for financial interest!  (Read 11534 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander

NO!! I realize Bitcoin is the 800lb gorilla in the room right now but that may not always be the case. If we are going to enshrine anything it cannot be tied to an existing tech. That just assures BTS' place as a second class citizen.

"Less % than bitcoin" is the marketing version, to sell the idea.

The real version is "50 BTS per block cap".  Nothing in the code about bitcoin.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:57:05 am by Ander »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Riverhead


Great... an enshrined constitution that stipulates an dilution rate strictly less than BTC's inflation rate


NO!! I realize Bitcoin is the 800lb gorilla in the room right now but that may not always be the case. If we are going to enshrine anything it cannot be tied to an existing tech. That just assures BTS' place as a second class citizen.


Bitcoin was great, PoW was awesome. So was the wagon wheel and windmill flower mills. Times change.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:39:35 am by Riverhead »

Offline yuxuan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Its 2021:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

Great... an enshrined constitution that stipulates an dilution rate strictly less than BTC's inflation rate would "tie our hands" and should be carefully considered, but from a marketing perspective there is a strong case.

You are changing almost all essential elements in the original consensus!!!
If the original consensus allows the dilution rate, I am sure that most holders did not buy btsx shares in the past! Particularly, the benefit caused by the future dilution will be not for minority shareholders, but only for delegates ! Now I cann't see at all  the meaning of decentralization. Your opinion is just the decision! right? That's the reason why some chinese are asking for the help of the authority to forbid btsx trades on BTC38!

Just one reminder ..... If people know Bitcoin market 's money will be sucked by the miners on a daily basis and more than the value the system can provide  , would the ordinary common sense people still bought Bitcoin at 1000 USD ? 

Bitcoin did not change it's protocol , but in fact it has been changed from Satoshi's vision ----every one can mine .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Its 2021:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

Great... an enshrined constitution that stipulates an dilution rate strictly less than BTC's inflation rate would "tie our hands" and should be carefully considered, but from a marketing perspective there is a strong case.

You are changing almost all essential elements in the original consensus!!!
If the original consensus allows the dilution rate, I am sure that most holders did not buy btsx shares in the past! Particularly, the benefit caused by the future dilution will be not for minority shareholders, but only for delegates ! Now I cann't see at all  the meaning of decentralization. Your opinion is just the decision! right? That's the reason why some chinese are asking for the help of the authority to forbid btsx trades on BTC38!

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
Its 2021:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

Great... an enshrined constitution that stipulates an dilution rate strictly less than BTC's inflation rate would "tie our hands" and should be carefully considered, but from a marketing perspective there is a strong case.

I think there is a huge amount of marketing value, and simply calming of the fears of those who have been dumping recently, by 'tying our hands' in this way.

Also, if we get a positive benefit from this, in terms of increased market cap, it means that we dont need to dilute as much in order to pay for the same amount of  developers/marketing, which is a great result.



https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline bytemaster

Its 2021:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

Great... an enshrined constitution that stipulates an dilution rate strictly less than BTC's inflation rate would "tie our hands" and should be carefully considered, but from a marketing perspective there is a strong case.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
BM,I warn you that your feckless decisions have already impaired a lot of stakeholders greatly and the market vigorously gives the result!  Why does people love BTC? Radically because the amount can not be manipulated by such financial organizations as U.S. Federal Reserve and our fortune cannot be diluted.  So in my view, any idea like hard fork or dilution is extremely stupid!

BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.


How many times does it have to be written before people will understand?

BTS currently has less dilution than Bitcoin. Bitcoin's is fixed ours can be changed.

I think the competition between DAC (BTS) and DAC+Crypto-currency (BTSX) is tougher than people think. With enough shares set aside BTSX could fund a lot of development as a hard cap. So while a pure DAC can perhaps engage in more innovation, development & marketing...

1. Unlike a real company, everything a pure DAC spends a fortune developing is open source, no intellectual property, so a crypto-currency+DAC can cheaply copy it.

2. The crypto market, the libertarian market and the world may gravitate to & trust a DAC+crypto-currency with fixed initial rules like 'gold' more than a pure DAC more like 'Goldman Sachs'  (That will be the detractor/competitors marketing angle.)

Some feel mainstream won't care about BitShares much on the back-end. I'm not so sure. Interesting times.

Can someone calculate how many years it will be until the Bitcoin inflation rate is less than 3%?

If we can with the new BitShares on Nov 5th have a some kind of constitution with an unchangeable maximum dilution rate (competitive with Bitcoin), enshrined as the first rule/principle, I personally believe that would be superior to a maximum flexibility DAC.


Offline bytemaster

BM,I warn you that your feckless decisions have already impaired a lot of stakeholders greatly and the market vigorously gives the result!  Why does people love BTC? Radically because the amount can not be manipulated by such financial organizations as U.S. Federal Reserve and our fortune cannot be diluted.  So in my view, any idea like hard fork or dilution is extremely stupid!

BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.


How many times does it have to be written before people will understand?

BTS currently has less dilution than Bitcoin. Bitcoin's is fixed ours can be changed.

I think the competition between DAC (BTS) and DAC+Crypto-currency (BTSX) is tougher than people think. With enough shares set aside BTSX could fund a lot of development as a hard cap. So while a pure DAC can perhaps engage in more innovation, development & marketing...

1. Unlike a real company, everything a pure DAC spends a fortune developing is open source, no intellectual property, so a crypto-currency+DAC can cheaply copy it.

2. The crypto market, the libertarian market and the world may gravitate to & trust a DAC+crypto-currency with fixed initial rules like 'gold' more than a pure DAC more like 'Goldman Sachs'  (That will be the detractor/competitors marketing angle.)

Some feel mainstream won't care about BitShares much on the back-end. I'm not so sure. Interesting times.

Can someone calculate how many years it will be until the Bitcoin inflation rate is less than 3%?
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
BM,I warn you that your feckless decisions have already impaired a lot of stakeholders greatly and the market vigorously gives the result!  Why does people love BTC? Radically because the amount can not be manipulated by such financial organizations as U.S. Federal Reserve and our fortune cannot be diluted.  So in my view, any idea like hard fork or dilution is extremely stupid!

BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.


How many times does it have to be written before people will understand?

BTS currently has less dilution than Bitcoin. Bitcoin's is fixed ours can be changed.

I think the competition between DAC (BTS) and DAC+Crypto-currency (BTSX) is tougher than people think. With enough shares set aside BTSX could fund a lot of development as a hard cap. So while a pure DAC can perhaps engage in more innovation, development & marketing...

1. Unlike a real company, everything a pure DAC spends a fortune developing is open source, no intellectual property, so a crypto-currency+DAC can cheaply copy it.

2. The crypto market, the libertarian market and the world may gravitate to & trust a DAC+crypto-currency with fixed initial rules like 'gold' more than a pure DAC more like 'Goldman Sachs'  (That will be the detractor/competitors marketing angle.)

Some feel mainstream won't care about BitShares much on the back-end. I'm not so sure. Interesting times.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 06:34:25 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Ander
BM,I warn you that your feckless decisions have already impaired a lot of stakeholders greatly and the market vigorously gives the result!  Why does people love BTC? Radically because the amount can not be manipulated by such financial organizations as U.S. Federal Reserve and our fortune cannot be diluted.  So in my view, any idea like hard fork or dilution is extremely stupid!

BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.
BTS has less dilution than Bitcoin.


How many times does it have to be written before people will understand?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
For the sake of completeness, you may compare bitUSD with BTC .. which has no dilution!

that’s wrong!
My interpretation in this case was
- bitUSD does not have dilution
- bitUSD is the (crypto)currency such as bitcoin ..
- BTS(X) is NOT a crypto currency!

I was pretty unclear here .. and I apologize!

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3737
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
For the sake of completeness, you may compare bitUSD with BTC .. which has no dilution!

that’s wrong!



BitGold which has no dilution. The FED can print USD

 +5% 

Exactly !!!

We must choose a bitASSET  like bitGOLD with no dilution ...
no dilution from inside...
no dilution from outside...

Imagine the slogan:
Anybody can easy purchase as much  gold as he will!
For the first time, gold to the masses !
With minimum, near zero purchase fees
Any quantity
Stored on the most secure vault worldwide...

bitshares

Offline Felix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Hard fork or dilution should be the taboo!
A taboo on hard forks results in a non-developing blockchain! .. your stuck in version 1.0!
and I have a feeling still don't understand what the dilution is good for ..

Our current situation is that btsx market hasn't been yet developed far well. Do you agree? And your proposed dilution will definitely lead to the falling  price of shares. One day, when the volume of bts market approaches  that of BTC, it might be reasonable to take the dilution into account. But now your idea does not consider  the benefit of shareholders at all.