Advice wanted: Pay rate for developer delegate

[cass]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

I guess my feeling is that even if svk said "hey guys I'm moving on with other things in life and won't be working on bitsharesblocks anymore" and said he would open source it and hand it off to someone who wanted to takeover.  Even now we know he won't be working on it anymore and we have the source I think we should STILL do what we can to provide fair compensation for past work.  Because of fairness and because of the effect on anyone else that might be considering putting in time to help this community.  I think it's a good precedent and we have a unique ability to centralize funds on behalf of shareholders instead of just tipping.

  svk you have my vote !!! Really great work so far … btw did you get the chance to start with our project… we talked last week!? Just curious

cheers. I haven't had much time yet I'm afraid, I'm out of town until Friday but I'll try to find some time this weekend, and if not then next week!

yeah no worries take your time ...

[Riverhead]

So...about that. On a lot of forms for all sorts of things it asks for employer details. Would you just say, "Bitshares of many many MANY addresses world wide. HQ non. Phone number none."...You get the idea.

Maybe for employment verification you can send them a link to svk's block explorer? Zero world problems?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[svk]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

I guess my feeling is that even if svk said "hey guys I'm moving on with other things in life and won't be working on bitsharesblocks anymore" and said he would open source it and hand it off to someone who wanted to takeover.  Even now we know he won't be working on it anymore and we have the source I think we should STILL do what we can to provide fair compensation for past work.  Because of fairness and because of the effect on anyone else that might be considering putting in time to help this community.  I think it's a good precedent and we have a unique ability to centralize funds on behalf of shareholders instead of just tipping.

  svk you have my vote !!! Really great work so far … btw did you get the chance to start with our project… we talked last week!? Just curious

cheers. I haven't had much time yet I'm afraid, I'm out of town until Friday but I'll try to find some time this weekend, and if not then next week!

[svk]

@Agent86 and everyone else, thanks for the support. I agree with your ideas of promoting fairness, and I think it would be best to establish a set of guidelines that encourages people to contribute and produce results. In my particular case it's a little different though as I started my particular project never expecting to get paid more than the standard delegate fee, and I was happy to do so cause I believed (and still believe) in Bitshares. It so happens BM was kind enough to vote in three delegates for me, but that was way more than I expected. So I'm fine with being judged on future merit and not just based on past work.

Now that we have this amazing capacity to pay real salaries however I think it's important going forward that we show the world that we appreciate and reward good work, as by doing so we will attract both talent and users to the Bitshares system. We'll make some waves on Bitcointalk in a few months with stories of how you can make $2k+/month working for the blockchain

[svk]

if you want more Vote,i thinke translate to chinese is very importent.

Yes, I've been thinking about this and will try to do so soon.

[xeroc]

Code: [Select]

delegate (locked) >>> help wallet_burn
Usage:
wallet_burn <amount_to_transfer> <asset_symbol> <from_account_name> <for_or_against> <to_account_name> [public_message] [anonymous]   Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.
Burns given amount to the given account.  This will allow you to post message and +/- sentiment on someones account as a form of reputation.

Parameters:
  amount_to_transfer (real_amount, required): the amount of shares to transfer
  asset_symbol (asset_symbol, required): the asset to transfer
  from_account_name (sending_account_name, required): the source account to draw the shares from
  for_or_against (string, required): the value 'for' or 'against'
  to_account_name (receive_account_name, required): the account to which the burn should be credited (for or against) and on which the public message will appear
  public_message (string, optional, defaults to ""): a public message to post
  anonymous (bool, optional, defaults to "false"): true if anonymous, else signed by from_account_name

Returns:
  transaction_record

aliases: burn

transmits a BURN transaction that can be read in the block explorer.

[gamey]

Is there a way to publicly burn funds yet?

[matt608]

This will all be so much easier once we have a turing script that takes delegates pay, exchanges the pay into a fix amount of bitUSD and automatically burns the rest ..

  Any guesses when such a thing might exist?  When someone makes it I guess....

[xeroc]

This will all be so much easier once we have a turing script that takes delegates pay, exchanges the pay into a fix amount of bitUSD and automatically burns the rest ..

[gamey]

How much is 10%?  Starting a new delegate is a bit silly.  People will always be dragging their feet as they're voted out.  You're just adding steps that don't need to be there to prevent the issue at the start.  These people aren't paid monthly.  It is hard enough to keep track of everything.  Voting people in/out according to raises sucks.

Exactly my point. I'm not against compensating svk, he's more than earned it, I was just raising a counter point for discussion. But if twl joined and shared some links that showed pages he'd supposedly developed would we be OK voting him in at 80% to 100% straight away with the assumption we could somehow compel him to lower his rate later if his work was sub par? I guess that's the big question.

The worst problem is the volatility.  I don't mind the DAC paying someone 3k USD if they show some work upfront/traditional resume/whatever.  The problem is when 3k becomes 10k, so at that point they don't need to start with 100%.  So really the question should be what is the starting amount of pay in USD people should start with.  Having people be paid 10% then working it up is just backwards if that 10% is a few hundred dollars.

[Riverhead]

How much is 10%?  Starting a new delegate is a bit silly.  People will always be dragging their feet as they're voted out.  You're just adding steps that don't need to be there to prevent the issue at the start.  These people aren't paid monthly.  It is hard enough to keep track of everything.  Voting people in/out according to raises sucks.

Exactly my point. I'm not against compensating svk, he's more than earned it, I was just raising a counter point for discussion. But if twl joined and shared some links that showed pages he'd supposedly developed would we be OK voting him in at 80% to 100% straight away with the assumption we could somehow compel him to lower his rate later if his work was sub par? I guess that's the big question.

[cass]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

I guess my feeling is that even if svk said "hey guys I'm moving on with other things in life and won't be working on bitsharesblocks anymore" and said he would open source it and hand it off to someone who wanted to takeover.  Even now we know he won't be working on it anymore and we have the source I think we should STILL do what we can to provide fair compensation for past work.  Because of fairness and because of the effect on anyone else that might be considering putting in time to help this community.  I think it's a good precedent and we have a unique ability to centralize funds on behalf of shareholders instead of just tipping.

  svk you have my vote !!! Really great work so far … btw did you get the chance to start with our project… we talked last week!? Just curious

[oco101]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

I guess my feeling is that even if svk said "hey guys I'm moving on with other things in life and won't be working on bitsharesblocks anymore" and said he would open source it and hand it off to someone who wanted to takeover.  Even now we know he won't be working on it anymore and we have the source I think we should STILL do what we can to provide fair compensation for past work.  Because of fairness and because of the effect on anyone else that might be considering putting in time to help this community.  I think it's a good precedent and we have a unique ability to centralize funds on behalf of shareholders instead of just tipping.

[Riverhead]

Excellent point.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[Agent86]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

I guess my feeling is that even if svk said "hey guys I'm moving on with other things in life and won't be working on bitsharesblocks anymore" and said he would open source it and hand it off to someone who wanted to takeover.  Even now we know he won't be working on it anymore and we have the source I think we should STILL do what we can to provide fair compensation for past work.  Because of fairness and because of the effect on anyone else that might be considering putting in time to help this community.  I think it's a good precedent and we have a unique ability to centralize funds on behalf of shareholders instead of just tipping.

[gamey]

How much is 10%?  Starting a new delegate is a bit silly.  People will always be dragging their feet as they're voted out.  You're just adding steps that don't need to be there to prevent the issue at the start.  These people aren't paid monthly.  It is hard enough to keep track of everything.  Voting people in/out according to raises sucks.

We need a defined traceable way to burn funds.  Then we need a tool to show the pay rate a person has received.  If they want to not do much for a week, they should be able to burn funds for that week in a readily transparent way.

Be smart about who is voted in with dilution.
Be quick to vote those out who aren't doing anything or being responsive.
Be quick to vote these same people back in if they make up for their lack of productivity.
Be quicker in giving feedback about direction people should have and slower about complaining.

Do not make up a bunch of weird rules that further complicated a system that is fairly clean.

[roadscape]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

This is how I see it.

[Riverhead]

As a counter point consider this:

1) svk has clearly demonstrated he can produce a great product and is cautious but not unfriendly to the open source concept.
2) svk has demonstrated a long standing and unflagging commitment to BitShares.

What does he get for this? A pay rate that starts at 80% - 100% rather than, "Start at 10% and if your work looks good campaign a new delegate at a higher rate".

IMHO his compensation for past work is paid out over the time it would take an unknown developer to get from 0% - 10% up to 80% - 100%.

[GaltReport]

Generally agree.  I think he should have to open source it  through to receive any pay for work already done (although I sent him a small tip already. kudo's to me ).

Payment for work done and open-sourced seems like a good practice. 

Going forward, payment for  achievement of specific results.  I leave it to  BM and team to flesh out  the details of that.

[zerosum]

I agree with:
Agent86,

As well as with everybody who agrees with him (in order of appearance):
Xeroc
Gamey
Emski

And in this particular case I believe svk has done enough to deserve  at least several months of pay for the work done so far, no doubt.

[emski]

I want to say that I totally disagree with this philosophy/attitude.  Why shouldn't we compensate svk for past work?

We are going to ask him to open source his work and then tell him he deserves no compensation for his past work except a pat on the back, and then ask what else can he do for us?  Just because the work is done so maybe he doesn't have much "room to negotiate"?  I think it's a bad attitude that serves to discourage others from freely contributing and shows a lack of appreciation.

Do we want to reward results or just "work"?  I'd rather reward and encourage results.

These systems codify a "fair" or socially agreed distribution of stake.  I think to get "buy in" we should cultivate a sense of fairness.  I think it is ridiculous to expect people will contribute anything of significance if we take this attitude and I think it encourages competition.  I'm not saying we reward things of questionable value but bitsharesblocks was a legit contribution.

I totally agree with this.

[gamey]

I want to say that I totally disagree with this philosophy/attitude.  Why shouldn't we compensate svk for past work?

We are going to ask him to open source his work and then tell him he deserves no compensation for his past work except a pat on the back, and then ask what else can he do for us?  Just because the work is done so maybe he doesn't have much "room to negotiate"?  I think it's a bad attitude that serves to discourage others from freely contributing and shows a lack of appreciation.

Do we want to reward results or just "work"?  I'd rather reward and encourage results.

These systems codify a "fair" or socially agreed distribution of stake.  I think to get "buy in" we should cultivate a sense of fairness.  I think it is ridiculous to expect people will contribute anything of significance if we take this attitude and I think it encourages competition.  I'm not saying we reward things of questionable value but bitsharesblocks was a legit contribution.

  You need to hammer it into everyone's head. 

Back when this first started being announced I said we're going to have a problem with too many chiefs, not enough indians.  Too many cooks in the kitchen.  However one wishes to state it.

Rune has said to hire every developer we can possibly find.  I disagree with that completely, but people who have shown work and progress already should be paid if they wish to be paid.  If they don't continue with the work then they can be voted out.  It is quite simple.  Since SVK has already shown what he was willing to do for free, then there shouldn't be that much question about what he'll do going forward.  Yes, he can quit working but he can be voted out relatively easily too. 

One thing about this system is it is quite flexible.  The overhead for hiring/firing is very small.  The biggest problem is chasing people off by random people making endless noise that such and such is not producing value.

[xeroc]

We are going to ask him to open source his work and then tell him he deserves no compensation for his past work except a pat on the back, and then ask what else can he do for us?  Just because the work is done so maybe he doesn't have much "room to negotiate"?  I think it's a bad attitude that serves to discourage others from freely contributing and shows a lack of appreciation.

Do we want to reward results or just "work"?  I'd rather reward and encourage results.

These systems codify a "fair" or socially agreed distribution of stake.  I think to get "buy in" we should cultivate a sense of fairness.  I think it is ridiculous to expect people will contribute anything of significance if we take this attitude and I think it encourages competition.  I'm not saying we reward things of questionable value but bitsharesblocks was a legit contribution.

Thank you!! 

[Agent86]

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

I agree, if you want my vote there needs be a roadmap for future work and not compensation for past work.

It is a complex system and an experiment... I think that major stake holders will act to get things done.

I want to say that I totally disagree with this philosophy/attitude.  Why shouldn't we compensate svk for past work?

We are going to ask him to open source his work and then tell him he deserves no compensation for his past work except a pat on the back, and then ask what else can he do for us?  Just because the work is done so maybe he doesn't have much "room to negotiate"?  I think it's a bad attitude that serves to discourage others from freely contributing and shows a lack of appreciation.

Do we want to reward results or just "work"?  I'd rather reward and encourage results.

These systems codify a "fair" or socially agreed distribution of stake.  I think to get "buy in" we should cultivate a sense of fairness.  I think it is ridiculous to expect people will contribute anything of significance if we take this attitude and I think it encourages competition.  I'm not saying we reward things of questionable value but bitsharesblocks was a legit contribution.

[cube]

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.

Thanks for the effort and taking the brave step from closed-source to open-source.  The community will benefit from your fine work and ideas. 

[CLains]

I like the idea of conditional voting that liondani brought to the table, in the end perhaps each Delegate can see at what income-thresholds they will get enough votes to get elected.. And then perhaps a "vesting period for income" threshhold as well 

[ssjpts]

if you want more Vote,i thinke translate to chinese is very importent.

[cass]

Thanks for your hard work svk.

 

[alphaBar]

Thanks for your hard work svk.

[alt]

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.

wonderful 

[liondani]

of course we support 100% svk 


PS It would be great if we could vote for payrate too on the client and not only for the delegate approve..
for example:
I vote with my 300,000 BTSX for SVK approval + for 80% payrate for his delegate...
so after we all vote he will have a payrate that the community (shareholders) has defined and not himself because it is out of his control...
what do you think about that?
   Maybe it would be good if the delegates can only input the minimum payrate they want but not the initial active payrate that will be defined from the shareholders as explained before..

[roadscape]

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

Open source benefits the community in many ways, closed source benefits a single entity. Set your ideas free!

An open-source promise in your campaign could go a long way in getting votes and/or higher pay. Just my 2 BTSX.

[bytemaster]

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.

I think from a DAC perspective, that it gains more by having an open source solution and having people compete on marketing their block explorer rather than having a closed source solution that reduces your need to compete on marketing.

I am "ok" with a 1 month grace period for you to open source it after you are elected. 

I think you could easily join the greater web-wallet team and your open source contributions will help everyone.

[CLains]

Take more, do more. Let's go!

[svk]

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

No worries we need people who don't shy away from being "that guy"!

I fully agree there needs to be accountability for paid delegates and I do intend to provide it. Making the front-end of BitsharesBlocks open-source and available on Github would definitely make this easier as it will allow you to track contributions, so that's another argument for going open-source. I'll also make public all expenses on servers, DDOS protections etc that running a delegate and any websites I maintain will require.

I also totally agree that past work should be considered as a resume and I have every intention to keep working and producing new stuff.

[svk]

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.

[bytemaster]

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

I agree, if you want my vote there needs be a roadmap for future work and not compensation for past work.

It is a complex system and an experiment... I think that major stake holders will act to get things done. 

[alphaBar]

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

[Ander]

I agree, while the market cap is low go for full pay.  If you keep showing us good things that you are creating we will keep voting for you.

If the market cap goes up a lot later then you could reduce pay or burn.

[vegolino]

You have done a lot of unpaid work so far. As a paid delegate I am sure that you will continue great work 

[bytemaster]

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

[NewMine]

At these price levels, it has to be 100% for every delegate. Then as value increases, you can lower it as demanded by the voters.

[svk]

Wow, thanks for the support guys, I didn't actually expect you to be that unanimous

@Riverhead I feel ya, I'd love to do this full time as well but my girlfriend would not stand for it right now, so for now it'll be fridays (my new day off) and most evenings for me She'll come around eventually though I'm sure.

[oco101]

All your work it is outstanding. So I'll say for all you did already and for future development I think 100% pay rate it is fair.

[Riverhead]

Given the usefulness of bitsharesblocks.com I think anyone would agree you deserve high-paying delegate.
Keep up the good work!

 

You have clearly demonstrated your ability to produce clean and functional software.

As I'm in the same boat, trying to figure out fair compensation, I'll watch this thread and take it as input. While you're looking to do this as a side project I'm looking to work full time for the blockchain as a delegate. I do not wish to report to anyone other than stakeholders otherwise I'd just keep the job I have now .

[emski]

Given the usefulness of bitsharesblocks.com I think anyone would agree you deserve high-paying delegate.
Keep up the good work!

[xeroc]

also consider adding the "website" attribute to your public data field and point to a lengthy description of goals,finance,payouts,blabla..

I believe a site is being made for "delegate profiles".

Yhea .. cass is working on it ..

we might help him out and define a SYNTAX for the public data field .. or at least define which fields should be considered set .. such as
- webseite
- pgp/gpg fingerprint
- mail
- scripthash for price feed script
- delegate slate
- maintainer TITAN address

optional:
- skype
- icq
- twitter
...
- bitmessage
- donation TITAN address
- forum handle
...

[Method-X]

also consider adding the "website" attribute to your public data field and point to a lengthy description of goals,finance,payouts,blabla..

I believe a site is being made for "delegate profiles".

[xeroc]

I'm really happy paid delegates are generating such interest! I would definitely support you.

My advice: Each paid delegate should have a clear value proposition. For example: value-proposition.username (ie. marketing.methodx). You can be broad or you can be really specific (i.e. mobile-wallet.username). This is how I envision paid delegate positions playing out anyway. I'd say come up with a specific project you're going to work on and campaign on that.

That sounds like a good idea ..

also consider adding the "website" attribute to your public data field and point to a lengthy description of goals,finance,payouts,blabla..

[Method-X]

I'm really happy paid delegates are generating such interest! I would definitely support you.

My advice: Each paid delegate should have a clear value proposition. For example: value-proposition.username (ie. marketing.methodx). You can be broad or you can be really specific (i.e. mobile-wallet.username). This is how I envision paid delegate positions playing out anyway. I'd say come up with a specific project you're going to work on and campaign on that.

[xeroc]

nice of you to ask! .. considering your contributions I would have no issue to vote 100% for you .. for now it's not too much money per month ..

also, you have two options when the market cap rise .. either you reduce your payrate or you burn manually/automated ..
I guess one nice feature of TuringComplete Script would be to predefine a USD amount per month and let the script burn the rest automatically ..

So If I were you I would set up 100% for now and rediscuss your "pay" in one or two months

[fuzzy]

Maybe take full pay for your main delegate and run altchain delegates for free?  In this way, you are not only helping secure the network and developing tools for its users but also supporting the altchains whose ideas may someday be adopted by the primary chain. 

This will make it far less likely that BTS using altchain innovations will be considered in a negative light as you will be helping secure their development ecosystem free of charge

I am actually of the belief that most people should start out with full delegate pay (if they have been around for a long time and have big dreams for the network).  Over time, when the network reaches a marketcap in the 100's of millions, delegates might be able to scale back pay a little bit in order to maintain the network's growth rate while also decreasing the amount paid out to accomplish it. 

[svk]

I'm shamelessly paraphrasing MethodX's topic in order to solicit the community on what level of payrate you consider acceptable for a developer delegate who's not working directly on the core software.

As you might know I'm the developer and maintainer of BitsharesBlocks.com, and I've been running three delegates up till now. With the upcoming change to delegate payrate I intend to move to a single paid delegate, and maybe an additional "free" 0% payrate delegate to help support the network.

I've been working very hard on BitsharesBlocks and I consider it now mostly feature-complete, but I'm still actively working on it and will of course keep on improving it. I also intend to start one or two new projects, possibly in collaboration with Cass.

The first one and most likely at this point is the "facebook for delegates" site that was mentioned briefly in another thread, and if time permits I'm still thinking of doing something similar to Ripplecharts for Bitshares.

Either way I will be working on projects for the Bitshares eco-system, and I hope the community will allow me to keep devoting my free time to it. I've even arranged with my day-job that for all of 2015 I will drop down to an 80% position in order to spend more time on Bitshares projects. This of course means my salary is dropping by 20%, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!

So my question to you is, what do you feel is an acceptable payrate for my contributions? Don't be shy, I won't bite even if you say 0%