Author Topic: Advice wanted: Pay rate for developer delegate  (Read 12321 times)

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Offline liondani

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of course we support 100% svk  ;)


PS It would be great if we could vote for payrate too on the client and not only for the delegate approve..
for example:
I vote with my 300,000 BTSX for SVK approval + for 80% payrate for his delegate...
so after we all vote he will have a payrate that the community (shareholders) has defined and not himself because it is out of his control...
what do you think about that?
   Maybe it would be good if the delegates can only input the minimum payrate they want but not the initial active payrate that will be defined from the shareholders as explained before..

Offline roadscape

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

Open source benefits the community in many ways, closed source benefits a single entity. Set your ideas free!

An open-source promise in your campaign could go a long way in getting votes and/or higher pay. Just my 2 BTSX.
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Offline bytemaster

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code :)

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.

I think from a DAC perspective, that it gains more by having an open source solution and having people compete on marketing their block explorer rather than having a closed source solution that reduces your need to compete on marketing.

I am "ok" with a 1 month grace period for you to open source it after you are elected. 

I think you could easily join the greater web-wallet team and your open source contributions will help everyone.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
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Offline CLains

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Offline svk

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

No worries we need people who don't shy away from being "that guy"!

I fully agree there needs to be accountability for paid delegates and I do intend to provide it. Making the front-end of BitsharesBlocks open-source and available on Github would definitely make this easier as it will allow you to track contributions, so that's another argument for going open-source. I'll also make public all expenses on servers, DDOS protections etc that running a delegate and any websites I maintain will require.

I also totally agree that past work should be considered as a resume and I have every intention to keep working and producing new stuff.
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Offline svk

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists

I would definitely look to keep supporting and expanding BitsharesBlocks and will be happy to add support for light weight clients.

I've been asked before to make it open source and I've been mulling over the question. On one hand I'm attracted to the whole idea of open-source software, on the other hand I'm a little intimated by the whole thing and also skeptical/worried that someone will just take over my code and use it to build a competitor. As someone who's never published an open-source project it just kinda feels like giving away all your trade secrets..

I've been leaning towards publishing the front-end code though and if you want to include it in the Bitshares github that could be arranged. I'll probably make a decision on that before making my official delegate announcement post. I'm thinking I could offer to make it open-source after one month as a paid delegate, as that will ensure some compensation and also allow me some time to "polish" the code :)

I'll see what I can do for the cover stats.
Worker: dev.bitsharesblocks

Offline bytemaster

I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

I agree, if you want my vote there needs be a roadmap for future work and not compensation for past work.

It is a complex system and an experiment... I think that major stake holders will act to get things done. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline alphaBar

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I hate to be "that guy" but I want to point out that delegate pay should probably not be treated as a reward for "past" work (although that can help to establish the trust that you need to get "hired" initially). I think of your past work as your resume for getting the job. In order to be voted in you should publish a list of projects or features that you'd like to implement, budget, timeline, and key results. Then once you are voted in you should commit to regular status updates, milestones, metrics, open source development, and anything else you can do to give shareholders confidence that they are getting their money's worth.

Lastly I'll just say that this is one of the main pitfalls of the dilution proposal. Personally I think the threshold for ongoing performance evaluation and management is too high for the average stakeholder. We already have very low vote participation, and the only thing we're managing is block production. What will inevitably happen is that people will trust their votes to third parties who have the time and expertise to evaluate the performance of a given delegate. Those people then become yet another "layer" of separation from the stakeholders, which in turn potentially impacts security since we've conflated the rewards for block production and literally everything else the "company" does. /rant

Offline Ander

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I agree, while the market cap is low go for full pay.  If you keep showing us good things that you are creating we will keep voting for you.

If the market cap goes up a lot later then you could reduce pay or burn.

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Offline vegolino

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You have done a lot of unpaid work so far. As a paid delegate I am sure that you will continue great work  :)

Offline bytemaster

I would support you for a paid position assuming you commit to a certain level of effort that continually enhances bitsharesblocks and makes bitsharesblocks open source (if it isn't already).   

The role of bitsharesblocks will have to expand as we add support for light weight clients that need RPC query access for information.

I would like to move the source for bitsharesblocks to github.com/BitShares/ 

One thing I really want to see for a bit asset is the cumulative total of bitassets required to cover by a certain number of days.   This will let traders know how much volume of cover pressure or "future buy demand" there exists
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline NewMine

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At these price levels, it has to be 100% for every delegate. Then as value increases, you can lower it as demanded by the voters.

Offline svk

Wow, thanks for the support guys, I didn't actually expect you to be that unanimous :)

@Riverhead I feel ya, I'd love to do this full time as well but my girlfriend would not stand for it right now, so for now it'll be fridays (my new day off) and most evenings for me :) She'll come around eventually though I'm sure.

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Offline oco101

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All your work it is outstanding. So I'll say for all you did already and for future development I think 100% pay rate it is fair.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 03:40:53 pm by oco101 »

Offline Riverhead

Given the usefulness of bitsharesblocks.com I think anyone would agree you deserve high-paying delegate.
Keep up the good work!

 +5%

You have clearly demonstrated your ability to produce clean and functional software.

As I'm in the same boat, trying to figure out fair compensation, I'll watch this thread and take it as input. While you're looking to do this as a side project I'm looking to work full time for the blockchain as a delegate. I do not wish to report to anyone other than stakeholders otherwise I'd just keep the job I have now :).