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Offline krystalwhite

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An approach for engaging the non technical
« on: November 27, 2013, 08:01:14 PM »

I had a chat to Invictus, a couple of days ago, re drawing up a one page sheet/flyer/pdf that could explain to non technical people and newcomers to the cryptocoin world what Invictus offer.

A couple of sentences on each 'product' DACs, Bitshares,Protoshares etc

In my opinion it also needs to be fairly simply written so that it can be easily translated in other languages.

Invictus already have a flyer for Keyhotee Free Space, see http://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/5270bd60e4b04f272062ebdd/1383120224597/Keyhotee%20Free%20Space%20Flyer%202.pdf

The problem is that a lot of non technical people just don't seem to grasp crypto currencies and how they can revolutionise the world because most have bought into the fiat model and can't see beyond it.

A lot of people can't even understand the concept let alone products available and companies that enhance the cryptocoin system.

Also as it can be quite difficult to get started - just buying bitcoins can be an issue - non-techs just switch off.

So essentially it is finding away to express in very simple terms what is on offer.

The technical people need to capture the imagination of the non technical.

I aim to have some suitable text ready by the weekend - wind turbine and computer issues willing...long story.

I would appreciate comment and critic from all.  Not too brutal please.

Hopefully if it is any good Invictus could take the flyers to conferences etc

One thing I would like to add at the end is some comments by the forum members on what the Invictus products mean to them.

Just post them on this thread.

(as an aside I listened to a really good podcast by Cliff High on Red Ice Creations about Bitcoin/ bitcoin concept - including a very good non technical summation of what Bitcoin is - see www.redicecreations.com - if you are interested).


Cheers

kw

Offline krystalwhite

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2013, 11:32:37 AM »
Update:

Having written a small section for the non technical on Keyhotee and tried it out on friends/family of the techno dinosaur persuasion the responses I have had are:

Is my ID only as secure as my computer - what if I get a virus?

What is people start falsely attacking my 'good name', which means people won't trade with me?

Who are the arbitrators of disputes and how do they get paid?

What will the program look like on my computer?

Is it an online interface so I can access anywhere or can I only access it from my computer?

Am I able to have a paper back up of everything?

What happens if my computer dies?  Is there a central back up facility?

If it is open source software how can I be sure that any updates I download will not be malicious?  i.e. includes a key logger.

What do you mean I have to mine my ID each year?

If I have a multi wallet do I have to remember lots of passwords or just one?

Who controls all the IDs?

There were some other unprintable comments - I will leave those to your imagination.

Most liked the idea of have a unique ID for transactions but were mainly concerned about computer security.

Even though I thought that I had made it fairly simple it appears that I had over estimated people's understanding of the 'crypto world'.

The answers to these maybe contained within the Invictus blurb however I would be grateful for any answers so that I can streamline the info that I am pulling together.

Thanks in advance

kw

Offline bytemaster

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 03:27:37 PM »
Quote
Is my ID only as secure as my computer - what if I get a virus?
All identity information is only ever stored encrypted.  A virus would have to install a key logger, but we are considering an option for an on-screen keyboard that will make key-logging much harder.

Quote
What is people start falsely attacking my 'good name', which means people won't trade with me?

This is outside the scope of Keyhotee and its initial value proposition.  Keyhotee does not manage these attacks, they would end up in the scam accusations on the forum and you will be tried in the court of public opinion.   Eventually we will have arbitration / dispute resolution but that will be a much more involved system that is years away.

More answers to follow...
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline pgbit

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2013, 03:36:16 PM »
Quote
Is my ID only as secure as my computer - what if I get a virus?
All identity information is only ever stored encrypted.  A virus would have to install a key logger, but we are considering an option for an on-screen keyboard that will make key-logging much harder.

Quote
What is people start falsely attacking my 'good name', which means people won't trade with me?

This is outside the scope of Keyhotee and its initial value proposition.  Keyhotee does not manage these attacks, they would end up in the scam accusations on the forum and you will be tried in the court of public opinion.   Eventually we will have arbitration / dispute resolution but that will be a much more involved system that is years away.

More answers to follow...
I am not sure that an on screen keypad would help. See this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystroke_logging

"On-screen keyboards[edit]
Most on screen keyboards (such as the onscreen keyboard that comes with Windows XP) send normal keyboard event messages to the external target program to type text. Every software keylogger can log these typed characters sent from one program to another.[27] Additionally, keylogging software can take screenshots of what is displayed on the screen (periodically, and/or upon each mouse click), which means that although certainly a useful security measure, an on-screen keyboard will not protect from all keyloggers."

Offline bytemaster

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2013, 03:42:45 PM »
This would not be a general purpose keyboard but just randomized on screen buttons. 

If a virus is robust enough to patch our binaries then there is nothing we can do at this point.  It is better than everything else but not perfect.

I recomend a Mac


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For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline robozombie

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2013, 09:22:49 PM »
This would not be a general purpose keyboard but just randomized on screen buttons. 

If a virus is robust enough to patch our binaries then there is nothing we can do at this point.  It is better than everything else but not perfect.

I recomend a Mac


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I'd go as far as saying anything, but Microsoft Windows. :-X
Robozombie

Offline bytemaster

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 02:53:18 AM »
Who are the arbitrators of disputes and how do they get paid?

What will the program look like on my computer?

Is it an online interface so I can access anywhere or can I only access it from my computer?

Am I able to have a paper back up of everything?

What happens if my computer dies?  Is there a central back up facility?

If it is open source software how can I be sure that any updates I download will not be malicious?  i.e. includes a key logger.

Quote
What do you mean I have to mine my ID each year?

You just have to leave Keyhotee running a couple of days per year and Keyhotee will take care of the rest.

Quote
If I have a multi wallet do I have to remember lots of passwords or just one?

I am not sure what you mean by multi-wallet, but you only need once password for all of your crypto-currency wallets.

Quote
Who controls all the IDs?

No one controls them, they are all secured in a block chain like Bitcoin.

Quote
There were some other unprintable comments - I will leave those to your imagination.

There were some other unprintable responses - I will leave those to your imagination.

Quote
Most liked the idea of have a unique ID for transactions but were mainly concerned about computer security.

Even though I thought that I had made it fairly simple it appears that I had over estimated people's understanding of the 'crypto world'.

I think it will probably be at least a year or more before Keyhotee is ready for the masses.  In the mean time the target audience are those who want private and secure email.  Anyone worried about the security of Keyhotee should be far more secure than anything they use now.   

Currently a virus could compromise their ID and passwords to their bank accounts in the same way they could hack Keyhotee.   Bottom line, there is no reason to hold Keyhotee to an impossible standard given the limits of OS security.    Focus on relative security rather than absolute security.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 05:05:30 AM »
Will the difficulty increase over time for Keyhotee?

Offline bytemaster

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 05:06:41 AM »
Will the difficulty increase over time for Keyhotee?

Keyhotee IDs will increase in difficulty once block sizes hit the 1 MB max.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Beetle559

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 05:14:29 AM »
Well you can try your skills if you like, it's a skeptical crowd but overall tech savvy. These guys are the target for early adoption.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/1rr47z/when_keyhotee_goes_live_on_jan_1st_i_will_be/

Offline krystalwhite

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2013, 07:48:32 AM »
Thanks for the info/feedback.

I have gone back to the drawing board as I think that Beetle559 has raised a good point - early adopters should be the target and then once the early adopters have  bought in the hope is that the product/Keyhotee will go 'viral' when the non techies see the benefits.

BTW Happy Thanksgiving to those on the other side of the pond.

Happy St Andrew's day to the Scottish

Cheers

kw

Offline luckybit

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2013, 10:58:00 AM »
I had a chat to Invictus, a couple of days ago, re drawing up a one page sheet/flyer/pdf that could explain to non technical people and newcomers to the cryptocoin world what Invictus offer.

A couple of sentences on each 'product' DACs, Bitshares,Protoshares etc

In my opinion it also needs to be fairly simply written so that it can be easily translated in other languages.

Invictus already have a flyer for Keyhotee Free Space, see http://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/5270bd60e4b04f272062ebdd/1383120224597/Keyhotee%20Free%20Space%20Flyer%202.pdf

The problem is that a lot of non technical people just don't seem to grasp crypto currencies and how they can revolutionise the world because most have bought into the fiat model and can't see beyond it.

A lot of people can't even understand the concept let alone products available and companies that enhance the cryptocoin system.

Also as it can be quite difficult to get started - just buying bitcoins can be an issue - non-techs just switch off.

So essentially it is finding away to express in very simple terms what is on offer.

The technical people need to capture the imagination of the non technical.

I aim to have some suitable text ready by the weekend - wind turbine and computer issues willing...long story.

I would appreciate comment and critic from all.  Not too brutal please.

Hopefully if it is any good Invictus could take the flyers to conferences etc

One thing I would like to add at the end is some comments by the forum members on what the Invictus products mean to them.

Just post them on this thread.

(as an aside I listened to a really good podcast by Cliff High on Red Ice Creations about Bitcoin/ bitcoin concept - including a very good non technical summation of what Bitcoin is - see www.redicecreations.com - if you are interested).


Cheers

kw

One technical idea which can help is to come up with a meme DAC which rewards for creation of the best memes. If a meme goes viral then everyone should make a lot of money.

But I don't know how it could be pulled off, perhaps a prediction market where people bet on which meme will go viral and if they guess right they make a lot of BTS?

You have to find ways to align the incentives to produce what you want in the market.





https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline bytemaster

Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2013, 02:36:16 PM »
Luckybit is starting to think like a dac! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline krystalwhite

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2013, 11:01:30 PM »
love the meme idea...memebet coin?

kw

Offline Pocket Sand

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Re: An approach for engaging the non technical
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2013, 06:50:26 AM »
I had a chat to Invictus, a couple of days ago, re drawing up a one page sheet/flyer/pdf that could explain to non technical people and newcomers to the cryptocoin world what Invictus offer.

A couple of sentences on each 'product' DACs, Bitshares,Protoshares etc

In my opinion it also needs to be fairly simply written so that it can be easily translated in other languages.

Invictus already have a flyer for Keyhotee Free Space, see http://static.squarespace.com/static/51fb043ee4b0608e46483caf/t/5270bd60e4b04f272062ebdd/1383120224597/Keyhotee%20Free%20Space%20Flyer%202.pdf

The problem is that a lot of non technical people just don't seem to grasp crypto currencies and how they can revolutionise the world because most have bought into the fiat model and can't see beyond it.

A lot of people can't even understand the concept let alone products available and companies that enhance the cryptocoin system.

Also as it can be quite difficult to get started - just buying bitcoins can be an issue - non-techs just switch off.

So essentially it is finding away to express in very simple terms what is on offer.

The technical people need to capture the imagination of the non technical.

I aim to have some suitable text ready by the weekend - wind turbine and computer issues willing...long story.

I would appreciate comment and critic from all.  Not too brutal please.

Hopefully if it is any good Invictus could take the flyers to conferences etc

One thing I would like to add at the end is some comments by the forum members on what the Invictus products mean to them.

Just post them on this thread.

(as an aside I listened to a really good podcast by Cliff High on Red Ice Creations about Bitcoin/ bitcoin concept - including a very good non technical summation of what Bitcoin is - see www.redicecreations.com - if you are interested).


Cheers

kw

One technical idea which can help is to come up with a meme DAC which rewards for creation of the best memes. If a meme goes viral then everyone should make a lot of money.

But I don't know how it could be pulled off, perhaps a prediction market where people bet on which meme will go viral and if they guess right they make a lot of BTS?

You have to find ways to align the incentives to produce what you want in the market.

This specific idea would be difficult to pull off as factors that help determine if something goes viral (such as views and votes) can easily be manipulated or frauded. Creative thinking though luckybit  :)

 

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