Rand Paul Coin wants to use DPoS

[ronpaulmoneyman]

Update - community has setup official home at

http://pts.cubeconnex.com/index.php?board=16.0

[merockstar]

Cryptsy?

Why is anyone here using Cryptsy after they didn't honor the pts/btsx snapshot and kept it for them selves.


Trusting a exchange that burned the community in the past is shame on you.

They all ready fooled you once.

my excuse is it's the only exchange with any devcoin volume (and that's the ONLY reason I use it)

[ronpaulmoneyman]

There is no particular discussion. I just go that site for tech help at times. I'm sure I could also ask here. There are also devs there who have a decent understanding of what all is involved. The guys who have done sharedrops are all there.

pts.cubeconnex.com

[biophil]

There has not been much of a presence here by me. I wish to wait until I have a testnet and then a forum will be useful. Until then bitcointalk announcement thread works fine and the pts forum.

Could you put up a link to the discussion on the PTS forum?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[ronpaulmoneyman]

There has not been much of a presence here by me. I wish to wait until I have a testnet and then a forum will be useful. Until then bitcointalk announcement thread works fine and the pts forum.

[zerosum]

Yet the 'sparkly' thing has its sub-forum and Ron does not.

Why?

Are the devs around here? If so, they should also have their own subforum .. if they have their own forum I suggest to not clutter the talks among two forums ..

They (He/She) have posted here...not as excessively as the  the Sparkle girl... but should we give chance to people only when they absolutely get on our nerves/cry for it?

[xeroc]

Yet the 'sparkly' thing has its sub-forum and Ron does not.

Why?

Are the devs around here? If so, they should also have their own subforum .. if they have their own forum I suggest to not clutter the talks among two forums ..

[zerosum]

- You need the price feeds because otherwise it doesn't work. (There will be a lot of RandPaulCoin Bulls, willing to short but lower demand for the assets. This results in a peg that doesn't work. BitShares' first crash after they got to a $100 million made them learn this lesson the hard way. Even now BitAssets are able to offer interest, why? Because there is so much competition to short. Without the feeds this would instead translate to your assets being too far below the peg.)

And you know they does not work, how exactly? Somebody told you so?

The price of Bitshares crashed because the original 'market pegged assets' were abandoned and instead BTS now has 'feed priced assets'.

I am not suggesting Rand Paul Coin implementing the real market pegged assets, but those have not been tested in practice by nobody and I am betting that somebody someday will. As early as 2015.

There was a thread on that forum - 'Why Vitalik got the award and BM did not'. Well it is simple in my mind - BM made the biggest discovery and let others (including Vitalik btw)  persuade him that his idea does not work.....

All the information you need to understand why I think they don't work is contained within that succinct paragraph you just quoted. (I believe you'll find there is a greater number of people looking to take a leveraged position on BitShares vs. a long position on any specific asset atm over an extended period. Therefore if shorts are not forced to compete above a price feed, they will compete on how far below the peg they're willing to short which logically and imo has already been shown in practice to create assets that peg far too low. (Where it actually pegs will be a reflection/expression of the average interest rate shorts are willing to pay, but because shorts outnumber longs in the system over an extended period it actually settles/pegs around that point, rather than the actual 1-1 peg.) If you believe otherwise, there's no reason you can't campaign for BitShares to try listing one asset on BitShares without the price feed to prove/test your point.

It's ludicrous idea...short are crazy...they do not know what they are doing so they just short short short below the peg...

Several counter arguments:
-These shorts will be wrong; if the peg does not hold their (aka BTS) value will not go up...the stupid are punished by the market by taking their money...next time around they will be wiser... and in smaller number of crazie shorts btw.

-What is wrong with offering those bitUSD at a discount months and months before there is any real use for them? Nothing imho. All parties would have been made whole by now.

-Why do you think the useless tokens in the play game BTSX at the time should follow the rules for the real money of the future? Do you really think that playing poker with toothpicks teach you anything about how people behave when they play for real money?


Circular stupid argument- they will short lower and lower....BS... they will not. They expect the system to grow, this does not grow it....but if you insist they will both trust it and try to destroy it and themselves at the same time.... and act irrational go and defend it. Total BS.

I guess we have different POV. These things seem very obvious to me. I predicted the peg problems before the trading started in fact, same with the short term results of dilution. But as I said you should campaign to try an asset without a price feed in BitShares. I know your ideas & opinions command a lot of respect there and there was also a lot of interest in you being a delegate. This is something you can add to the list of ways & ideas with which you can add great value to BitShares. It might tip the scale for you.

RPC doesn't have any inflation at all, so I know it's probably not your thing anyway.

1. You do not get the main point with this suggesting for me to run just 'one asset to try it'. It does not work like it. You have to have the price of BTS dependent on the model implemented...if I have my single play bit asset it might (and I am pretty sure it will) behave the way described in the 'fail system' described by you.

2. 'I know your ideas & opinions command a lot of respect there and there was also a lot of interest in you being a delegate.'
 I do not think so...on all points in the above statement.

3.RPC doesn't have any inflation at all, so I know it's probably not your thing anyway.


That's funny. I do not like inflation, actually I dislike far more than you...but you do like it if it is pre-determined even if it is 260% ...example - Sparkle 


btw ,We took this thread well off topic, so if you want to continue arguing we can take it to whatever other venue you like, but not in this thread anymore.

Well you campaigned very strongly for adding dilution to BTSX was my point.
No I don't like the inflation model of Sparkle at all, but yes I prefer it to undefined dilution.

I agree about the arguing in this thread

I like Rand Paul Coin  much better than the random Sparkles...

-No 260% Inflation.
-No POW, No 'Prove of Waste'.

Yet the 'sparkly' thing has its sub-forum and Ron does not.

Why?

[ticklebiscuit]

Wow! Amazing!  Crypsty ftw! Making their customers withdraw funds to get sharedropped! 

I guess you baahaahhh baahhhh...srry forgot what i was saying.  Isnt there another exchange for rpc?? I dont want to go to that shit hole.

[cryptocc]

Wallet on Cryptsy is fixed, so get your coins into your wallets.

[fuzzy]

Cryptsy?

Why is anyone here using Cryptsy after they didn't honor the pts/btsx snapshot and kept it for them selves.


Trusting a exchange that burned the community in the past is shame on you.

They all ready fooled you once.

You are unkind! Cryptsy is the only exchange that trades RonPaulCoin. We had no choice.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

The one thing we need is a truly dpos/sharedrop friendly centralized exchange..

[biophil]

Cryptsy?

Why is anyone here using Cryptsy after they didn't honor the pts/btsx snapshot and kept it for them selves.


Trusting a exchange that burned the community in the past is shame on you.

They all ready fooled you once.

You are unkind! Cryptsy is the only exchange that trades RonPaulCoin. We had no choice.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[Gentso1]

Cryptsy?

Why is anyone here using Cryptsy after they didn't honor the pts/btsx snapshot and kept it for them selves.


Trusting a exchange that burned the community in the past is shame on you.

They all ready fooled you once.

[fuzzy]

Update: it seems cryptsy will likely be finished updating the wallet Thursday (today or next Thursday is not yet clear). 

So at the very least, they seem to at least be open to letting users withdraw.  More to come as it is given.

I have explained the seriousness of the situation, so hopefully they have it ready in time. I have reached out to my contacts, but it also can't hurt to send more support tickets so they know a lot of people are concerned.

I am for letting the free market fix this. Exchanges like cryptsy need to change or go the way of the dinosaur.

[cryptocc]

Update: it seems cryptsy will likely be finished updating the wallet Thursday (today or next Thursday is not yet clear). 

So at the very least, they seem to at least be open to letting users withdraw.  More to come as it is given.

I have explained the seriousness of the situation, so hopefully they have it ready in time. I have reached out to my contacts, but it also can't hurt to send more support tickets so they know a lot of people are concerned.

[fuzzy]

Update: it seems cryptsy will likely be finished updating the wallet Thursday (today or next Thursday is not yet clear). 

So at the very least, they seem to at least be open to letting users withdraw.  More to come as it is given.

[fuzzy]

How long will this be?  Cryptsy is almost as bad as mintpal imho...

I am almost of the belief that they should get one chance, or you push the button of bitshares community wrath.  I'd grudgingly (but gladly) sacrifice my 1400 RPC to make them do right by our community for once.  Let them feel like they got rich by screwing more of their customers over...eventually it will backfire.  Flex the damned bitshares muscles..

It is not only our community, btw. You will have a real hard time finding any coin that have not been screwed by Cryptsy...

Even better.  We eventually need to stand up for ourselves or we can expect to always live in the shadow of bitcoin and its masters. 

[zerosum]

How long will this be?  Cryptsy is almost as bad as mintpal imho...

I am almost of the belief that they should get one chance, or you push the button of bitshares community wrath.  I'd grudgingly (but gladly) sacrifice my 1400 RPC to make them do right by our community for once.  Let them feel like they got rich by screwing more of their customers over...eventually it will backfire.  Flex the damned bitshares muscles..

It is not only our community, btw. You will have a real hard time finding any coin that have not been screwed by Cryptsy...

[fuzzy]

How long will this be?  Cryptsy is almost as bad as mintpal imho...

I am almost of the belief that they should get one chance, or you push the button of bitshares community wrath.  I'd grudgingly (but gladly) sacrifice my 1400 RPC to make them do right by our community for once.  Let them feel like they got rich by screwing more of their customers over...eventually it will backfire.  Flex the damned bitshares muscles..

[biophil]

Who on here has withdrawn purchased RPC from Cryptsy and who has purchased coins but has the RPC stuck on Cryptsy? 

I'm trying to make reasonable plans and really need to know this information.

My plans will be explained once I make them but I need honest feedback on the situation.

I got 75% of my RPC off Cryptsy before they disabled withdrawals.

I'd much rather you postpone the snapshot until after Cryptsy opens up withdrawals.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[fuzzy]

I have all my rpc (naively...perhaps stupidly) on cryptsy.  I actually thought they MIGHT do something good for their "customers" for once. No better than the mining cartels imho. 

I reached out to bter and btc38, though...so maybe the community can do me a favor and reach out to them and send them direct requests in pms here on the forums asking them to kindly open up an RPC market and also to keep the PTS market alive...it would be helpful. It seems the best way to get cryptsy to act ethically is to give our GROWING business to their competitors...if they have the foresight to see the opportunity, that is.

[ronpaulmoneyman]

Who on here has withdrawn purchased RPC from Cryptsy and who has purchased coins but has the RPC stuck on Cryptsy? 

I'm trying to make reasonable plans and really need to know this information.

My plans will be explained once I make them but I need honest feedback on the situation.

[fuzzy]

You guys are up 300% on your investment now.

Buying a microscopic dose of Ron Paul coin...

Haha, throw 100 bucks in and you control 1% of the shares. This could be fun
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

It looks like the market thinks that the first D(deflationary)DPOS will actually be a profitable little brother of BitShares.  And what's more, it could be our dangerous Libertarian black sheep twin that takes the controversial political stance while we take the more politically correct route.  They can do BitBud and all of those off limits BitAssets that we don't want to vote for.

Rand Paul Coin - It's not your daddy's DPOS

Now everyone can be happy again.  We all get a stake in an inflationary DPOS, and a deflationary DPOS!

Somebody let the Chinese community know that the Deflationary version of BitShares might actually be launching, and that we all might be a part of history!  It looks like they are going to airdrop their DDPOS on BitShares holders, however, so those who sold might want to buy back in to get a piece of the DDPOS action.  Thirteen delegates may be few enough to be profitable at a fraction of our market cap and getting paid only with transaction fees. 

Rand Paul would be the first Senator with his own coin! and maybe (a) president (coin)!

If and only if he follows OUR vote!

I can't wait to vote on how we want out Senator to vote (represent us) in the Senate!

Thanks again to BM and the devs for bringing us back to the future!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBBw9E2Q_aY

(Hint: You especially want to mention this to their Chinese community or at least on the Chinese boards here.)

Those guys would literally burn their own money to reduce inflation. 

Who is this guy??  We must have a beer sometime...it would be delightful.

[biophil]

You guys are up 300% on your investment now.

It looks like the market thinks that the first D(deflationary)DPOS will actually be a profitable little brother of BitShares.  And what's more, it could be our dangerous Libertarian black sheep twin that takes the controversial political stance while we take the more politically correct route.  They can do BitBud and all of those off limits BitAssets that we don't want to vote for.

Is this a joke? Which exchange has this coin ?

No joke, but he's talking about RonPaulCoin. Cryptsy is the only exchange that has it, and they shut down deposits this morning for maintenance. So there are relatively few sellers and apparently enough buyers to cause a fantastic little bubble.

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/RPC_BTC

[zerosum]

You guys are up 300% on your investment now.

It looks like the market thinks that the first D(deflationary)DPOS will actually be a profitable little brother of BitShares.  And what's more, it could be our dangerous Libertarian black sheep twin that takes the controversial political stance while we take the more politically correct route.  They can do BitBud and all of those off limits BitAssets that we don't want to vote for.

Is this a joke? Which exchange has this coin ?

It is not launched yet.  So no exchanges for now, is the last I have read.

[vlight]

You guys are up 300% on your investment now.

It looks like the market thinks that the first D(deflationary)DPOS will actually be a profitable little brother of BitShares.  And what's more, it could be our dangerous Libertarian black sheep twin that takes the controversial political stance while we take the more politically correct route.  They can do BitBud and all of those off limits BitAssets that we don't want to vote for.

Is this a joke? Which exchange has this coin ?

[CLains]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/459085124197658/

Getting some heavy discussion now.

[Vizzini]

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/201499

Worth a read. 

On another note.  I just got done speaking with Ross Ulbricht's Mother and Father and they are looking to fund approximately $20k more toward Ross's Defense fund.  They are interested in meeting with our community in a hangout in the next couple weeks. 

I told them I have no power over the decision personally, but that our community is who they need to contact.  More later.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11201.0#new

[fuzzy]

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/201499

Worth a read. 

On another note.  I just got done speaking with Ross Ulbricht's Mother and Father and they are looking to fund approximately $20k more toward Ross's Defense fund.  They are interested in meeting with our community in a hangout in the next couple weeks. 

I told them I have no power over the decision personally, but that our community is who they need to contact.  More later.

[cryptocc]

That is fine and dandy, but
A) the announcement has already been made and it looks unprofessional to alter something like the Name of the coin after the fact...sad but true.
B) Rand is going to be the next president...not Ron Paul.
   B1) Rand is likely playing poker in a game where he has seen his father fail for being too open about his leanings. 
   B2) Coupling donations to liberty-leaning causes that the younger generation believes in will help show support and give Rand more proof that he has backing from a very powerful liberty-minded constituency---worldwide. 
   B3) Using the name Ron Paul Coin invokes the history of a coin that utterly failed in the eyes of most. 
   B4) Getting Rand Paul in office means Ron Paul will be whispering in his ear.  It also means we have the best crypto Lobbyist in the world in our pocket.

I had no idea Rand Paul was going to be president. That is pretty interesting if true, and I admit I stopped watching television a long time ago, so perhaps the political landscape has changed quite a bit. Anyway, I have some RPC and will take the snapshot for whatever comes of it. If Rand Paul is going to be president and is pro cryptos, that does change things.

[fuzzy]

People at Facebook seemed confused why Ron Paul coin was going up, so I tried to explain and directed them to the bitcointalk.org and this discussion. There is still a lot of simple things we can do to make this coin more popular. Even the idea of a "snapshot" is little understood beyond our community, and confuses people.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/459085124197658/584974178275418/?comment_id=585470368225799&notif_t=like

It isn't the best, but it is a solid explanation:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U_lZo_JJrE

"70% distributed to RPC
20% to BTS (required for full BitShare community support because they have historically supported every coin which has honored this percentage) which would be 10%PTS (original DPOS supporters through mining), and 10%AGS (original DPOS supporters through investing).
10% BTC (the Bitcoin connection will guarantee quicker adoption of your coin because Max Keiser would already be a part owner of the first ever deflationary cryptocurrency controlled by the owners, and not a central mining cartel)"

That seems a good idea. (From a post on Bitcointalk.org)

Sharedrop to Maxcoin if you want Max Keiser's support...why the heck would we sharedrop on Bitcoin to get his backing? 

Ron Paul > Rand Paul imho - I would ditch the Rand Paul concept and make it Ron Paul 3.0 instead, Ron Paul BTS, whatever... It would be far more popular and interesting, and the launch thread is already scam and counter scam accusations, so you are better off making a new one, linking it up.

Ron Paul is a legend in the Libertarian circles while Rand Paul is far more controversial. In essence, Rand Paul is a much weaker brand to go with. To be extremely practical, the greatest risk of a celebrity coin is that the celebrity screws something up and damages the brand. Big mouth, says something really dumb. Which Rand Paul could easily do, has done, and there is a high risk to use his name for it. (however you feel about him) Ron Paul is extremely well known and not likely to screw anything up at this point, for people that already love and respect him anyway. I own a little RPC by the way, just because I was saving it up in case cryptos go mainstream. I might even buy some Bitshares as I just like Ron Paul quite a bit, if the branding is changed. Rand Paul, nah, change the brand. No brainer.

That is fine and dandy, but
A) the announcement has already been made and it looks unprofessional to alter something like the Name of the coin after the fact...sad but true.
B) Rand is going to be the next president...not Ron Paul.
   B1) Rand is likely playing poker in a game where he has seen his father fail for being too open about his leanings. 
   B2) Coupling donations to liberty-leaning causes that the younger generation believes in will help show support and give Rand more proof that he has backing from a very powerful liberty-minded constituency---worldwide. 
   B3) Using the name Ron Paul Coin invokes the history of a coin that utterly failed in the eyes of most. 
   B4) Getting Rand Paul in office means Ron Paul will be whispering in his ear.  It also means we have the best crypto Lobbyist in the world in our pocket. 

[ronpaulmoneyman]

I replied on bitcointalk. I will likely do most of the interaction there although it is understood there is a lot of support on this forum. It seems preferable to reach out to people on btt.

[cryptocc]

"70% distributed to RPC
20% to BTS (required for full BitShare community support because they have historically supported every coin which has honored this percentage) which would be 10%PTS (original DPOS supporters through mining), and 10%AGS (original DPOS supporters through investing).
10% BTC (the Bitcoin connection will guarantee quicker adoption of your coin because Max Keiser would already be a part owner of the first ever deflationary cryptocurrency controlled by the owners, and not a central mining cartel)"

That seems a good idea. (From a post on Bitcointalk.org)

Ron Paul > Rand Paul imho - I would ditch the Rand Paul concept and make it Ron Paul 3.0 instead, Ron Paul BTS, whatever... It would be far more popular and interesting, and the launch thread is already scam and counter scam accusations, so you are better off making a new one, linking it up.

Ron Paul is a legend in the Libertarian circles while Rand Paul is far more controversial. In essence, Rand Paul is a much weaker brand to go with. To be extremely practical, the greatest risk of a celebrity coin is that the celebrity screws something up and damages the brand. Big mouth, says something really dumb. Which Rand Paul could easily do, has done, and there is a high risk to use his name for it. (however you feel about him) Ron Paul is extremely well known and not likely to screw anything up at this point, for people that already love and respect him anyway. I own a little RPC by the way, just because I was saving it up in case cryptos go mainstream. I might even buy some Bitshares as I just like Ron Paul quite a bit, if the branding is changed. Rand Paul, nah, change the brand. No brainer.

[CLains]

People at Facebook seemed confused why Ron Paul coin was going up, so I tried to explain and directed them to the bitcointalk.org and this discussion. There is still a lot of simple things we can do to make this coin more popular. Even the idea of a "snapshot" is little understood beyond our community, and confuses people.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/459085124197658/584974178275418/?comment_id=585470368225799&notif_t=like

[fuzzy]

So I have been in the very beginnings of a relationship with the people running a campaign to help fund Ross Ulbricht's Defense.  Seeing as it would likely not be good for BitShares' current endeavors if delegates from that platform were to help, there seems to be convergence of many factors here that would make Rand Paul Coin a far better candidate. 

There is growing a larger and larger hole where the old Bitcoiners who would have once supported such efforts no longer seem to care as they reach for legitimacy in the main stream (this, of course, is to be expected).  However, a coin like Rand Paul Coin could use this as a means by which to gain legitimacy in the eyes of those who feel it is worth it to back freedom on the internet. 

For those who believe this is folly and that there would not be a large enough following for this, I recommend you see this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglctmMFlq0

I have some questions if you don't mind.  First let me say that I am not exactly for people being able to buy heroin or other hard drugs, but silk road was not necessarily a terrible thing imho...considering the alternative (CIA rings that use primarily U.S. forces and contractors to protect a monopoly on such things).  The illegality of drugs makes them, imho, far more dangerous.  If we are trying to protect people, it is far better to find other ways.

My personal viewpoint on silk road aside, since you are asking for feedback and questions.
1) Can you explain how delegates will be funding Rand's Campaign? 
2) How could primarily libertarian initiatives be funded along side this? 
3) Do you see any potential pitfalls to a plan for initially funding endeavors like this?
4) Would doing so put YOU in danger?

It seems to me that funding the defense of Ross Ulbricht, Edward Snowden and other initiatives that will be appealing to the base that Rand is trying to reach will bring more attention to the issues that fall in line with his father's own past stances.  This would be a wonderful way to help show him there is a substantial and untapped base who is very interested in personal choice and liberty for all.   

I am personally of the opinion he is not too far off from his father, but is forced to "play the game" because he saw how far his father got even with significant backing...for openly opposing both sides of the left-right paradigm.

[CLains]

Still time to rename it. You have to constantly make bold decisions in this space and keep looking forward else the past will hold you hostage. I suppose Ron Paul devs would be happy to collaborate as well. Their coin is practically dead, so I'm sure they will appreciate your fresh enthusiasm. 

[ronpaulmoneyman]

Hi. I don't have much to add because the link to my bitcointalk.org thread already exists in the OP. There aren't many other things to cover but I am available if someone wants to ask questions. Either by PMing or this thread will work for now.

I'm looking forward to having another DPOS chain out in the wild. This is literally the first coin I've made so I am not a serial altcoin generator. I'm a bit excited.

Wait for BTS for release.
Fork BTS and start on testnet running.
Release RPCD official chain.
Contact exchanges to try to start finding support.

I do wonder if this should not have just named after Ron Paul. It is agreed that Ron Paul was a man of convictions which I do not see so much in his son. His son is definitely more of a Republican working from within the system. Maybe it should have been named  Ron Paul CD and still have the plan to support Rand.

You scare me man. I had to google-check if Ron Paul is alive.

Anyway. Welcome to the forum and  for honoring the social consensus for PTS/AGS holders.

The reason I used past tense is because Ron is no longer active in running as a candidate where Randal is running as a candidate. I was thinking in terms of active politicians and misspoke.  Ron Paul is most assuredly still a man of convictions !

[zerosum]

Hi. I don't have much to add because the link to my bitcointalk.org thread already exists in the OP. There aren't many other things to cover but I am available if someone wants to ask questions. Either by PMing or this thread will work for now.

I'm looking forward to having another DPOS chain out in the wild. This is literally the first coin I've made so I am not a serial altcoin generator. I'm a bit excited.

Wait for BTS for release.
Fork BTS and start on testnet running.
Release RPCD official chain.
Contact exchanges to try to start finding support.

I do wonder if this should not have just named after Ron Paul. It is agreed that Ron Paul was a man of convictions which I do not see so much in his son. His son is definitely more of a Republican working from within the system. Maybe it should have been named  Ron Paul CD and still have the plan to support Rand.

You scare me man. I had to google-check if Ron Paul is alive.

Anyway. Welcome to the forum and  for honoring the social consensus for PTS/AGS holders.

[ronpaulmoneyman]

Hi. I don't have much to add because the link to my bitcointalk.org thread already exists in the OP. There aren't many other things to cover but I am available if someone wants to ask questions. Either by PMing or this thread will work for now.

I'm looking forward to having another DPOS chain out in the wild. This is literally the first coin I've made so I am not a serial altcoin generator. I'm a bit excited.

Wait for BTS for release.
Fork BTS and start on testnet running.
Release RPCD official chain.
Contact exchanges to try to start finding support.

I do wonder if this should not have just named after Ron Paul. It is agreed that Ron Paul was a man of convictions which I do not see so much in his son. His son is definitely more of a Republican working from within the system. Maybe it should have been named  Ron Paul CD and still have the plan to support Rand.

[fuzzy]

So I have been in the very beginnings of a relationship with the people running a campaign to help fund Ross Ulbricht's Defense.  Seeing as it would likely not be good for BitShares' current endeavors if delegates from that platform were to help, there seems to be convergence of many factors here that would make Rand Paul Coin a far better candidate. 

There is growing a larger and larger hole where the old Bitcoiners who would have once supported such efforts no longer seem to care as they reach for legitimacy in the main stream (this, of course, is to be expected).  However, a coin like Rand Paul Coin could use this as a means by which to gain legitimacy in the eyes of those who feel it is worth it to back freedom on the internet. 

For those who believe this is folly and that there would not be a large enough following for this, I recommend you see this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglctmMFlq0

[CLains]

There is a lot of different assets on NXT already, so maybe we can learn from how they relate to NXT. List of all assets. 

Sidenote: MaidSafe has roughly 10x market cap of Mastercoin!

[zerosum]

Gamey, I struggle to find the exact point that you are missing. This post of Riverhead's is as good explanation as it gets.

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

Not trying to improve on this explanation  but rather trying to come with another way of saying it.

If you have something worth something of value, it should not matter if you paid for it in USD or EUR. You should pay the same, aka its value.
In other words pricing something in $, does not mean its value depends on the value of the dollar.

I agree.  More or less. This assumes the market is 100% efficient.  I believe in theory of efficient markets just not in short term with markets that have few actors/low liquidity.

If you take value to be what you can immediately sell something for then it obviously can and does change.. At least until prices are corrected.

 anyway..  I think I get this and so does everyone who has contributed to this thread on the subject.  A lot of semantic based arguments + me not realizing the true power (existence?) of the UIA:bitUSD on BTS compared to something like NXT.

Actually, the benefit of bitUSD is the same in the system as well as outside of it - stable (crypto) currency.
But for the general ability to trade against any asset, BTS is not the first one to do this. Even my favorite turtle (aka Counterparty) has that functionality. I mean NXT is the exception in that regard. Why they don't allow for that? Ask the developer who makes his wallets as a IQ test, more than as a tool to use. (aka come from somewhere or something, I think)

[gamey]

Gamey, I struggle to find the exact point that you are missing. This post of Riverhead's is as good explanation as it gets.

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

Not trying to improve on this explanation  but rather trying to come with another way of saying it.

If you have something worth something of value, it should not matter if you paid for it in USD or EUR. You should pay the same, aka its value.
In other words pricing something in $, does not mean its value depends on the value of the dollar.

I agree.  More or less. This assumes the market is 100% efficient.  I believe in theory of efficient markets just not in short term with markets that have few actors/low liquidity.

If you take value to be what you can immediately sell something for then it obviously can and does change.. At least until prices are corrected.

 anyway..  I think I get this and so does everyone who has contributed to this thread on the subject.  A lot of semantic based arguments + me not realizing the true power (existence?) of the UIA:bitUSD on BTS compared to something like NXT.

[clout]

You've missed the whole point of bitAssets. Why is BitShares a better asset exchange, because the market isn't going to be Rand Paul Coin vs BTS (or NXT) the market is Rand Paul Coin vs bitUSD.  If there is enough volume in bitUSD the peg will hold better and the price of the asset should not be subject to the volatility of BTS.

I didn't realize that all user-defined assets will be denoted in a bitAssets, but you're just as clueless as me if you think thats the "whole point" of bitAssets.  Someone else in this thread said user defined assets are just like NXT. Well in the NXT wallet there is a market that allows assets to be traded in NXT. So the asset's value is tied into NXT. 

It seems that a user-defined asset can be paired on any market. So the value of the asset will be dependent on the markets it is paired with.  I understand now.  The assumption is that the dominant market will be a bitUSD pair or a different bitAsset. That makes sense. I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as you guys, because the dominant market could also be BTS.

edit - Or is a BTS:UIA not even allowed ?

The point of bitassets is that they are stable currencies that facility trade in a decentralized manner. BTS is not a currency although it can obviously be used as one. The dominant market could be BTS. The original claim, however, was that if BTS loses value then the value of the assets traded on the platform necessarily have to lose value as well. I think we have all agreed that this is not necessarily true.

Also, you can trade any asset against another.

[zerosum]

Gamey, I struggle to find the exact point that you are missing. This post of Riverhead's is as good explanation as it gets.

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

Not trying to improve on this explanation  but rather trying to come with another way of saying it.

If you have something worth something of value, it should not matter if you paid for it in USD or EUR. You should pay the same, aka its value.
In other words pricing something in $, does not mean its value depends on the value of the dollar.

[bytemaster]

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

I believe if the asset isn't pegged to an external measure than it's really just another name for BTS and will rise and fall with it. The only thing that makes an asset have representative value is if there is some incentive for the market to come to a consensus around a peg. Even if the primary market is bitUSD:UIA the UIA would still need some external peg to give it a value of X USD.

User Issued Assets have value proportional to the credit worthiness of the issuer and whether or not the BTS chain is functioning enough to allow the assets to transfer owners.   IE: as long as delegates are producing blocks, if I issued DanUSD as a user issued asset with 0 collateral then it would trade based upon the markets opinion on whether or not I would redeem those DanUSD for real USD.   BTS value is not a factor.

[Riverhead]

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

I believe if the asset isn't pegged to an external measure than it's really just another name for BTS and will rise and fall with it. The only thing that makes an asset have representative value is if there is some incentive for the market to come to a consensus around a peg. Even if the primary market is bitUSD:UIA the UIA would still need some external peg to give it a value of X USD.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

There are a dozen ways to calculate worth.  When I said "worth 5 BTS" I meant that an internal market did price discovery in BTS and it was at 5.  So if the value of BTS relative to BTC changes (which is currently the only way to realize profits in this system) then that changes the value/worth of the asset. 

Now I understand the typical UIA will likely have bitUSD:UIA as dominant market.  Thats the explanation I was looking for and explains the first statement of Dan etc.

[Riverhead]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

Your THING isn't worth 5 BTS. You're THING is worth whatever it's worth in the real world ($5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas). The number of BTS you need to get $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas varies. When you bought THING you bought it for 100 BTS. The value of BTS goes to the moon so now when you want to exchange your THING for $5USD or 15 Apples and 2 Bananas you sell it on the internal exchange for 0.01 BTS ~= $5USD (at that time).

[zerosum]

Internal user issued assets have value fully independent of BTS value... they generally represent a contract or property right or some form of security.

BitAssets depend upon BTS value.

bitAssets value depend on BTS having  value (some value). Not what that value is. 1 bitUSD should be worth about 1 $ no matter if BTS is worth $0.01 or $10, as long as it is worth something.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

It depends! Does THING have a value relative to something external to BTS? Suppose when you issued THING you promised to make it convertible to some real-world item: let's say you promise to give people a golf ball if they send you a share of THING. Then the price of THING is determined by the value of a golf ball, so if the price of BTS changes, the price of THING denominated in BTS will change accordingly. See?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

And this is yet a different answer. This makes sense if it is just a token that uses external exchanges.

[biophil]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

It depends! Does THING have a value relative to something external to BTS? Suppose when you issued THING you promised to make it convertible to some real-world item: let's say you promise to give people a golf ball if they send you a share of THING. Then the price of THING is determined by the value of a golf ball, so if the price of BTS changes, the price of THING denominated in BTS will change accordingly. See?

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[gamey]

You've missed the whole point of bitAssets. Why is BitShares a better asset exchange, because the market isn't going to be Rand Paul Coin vs BTS (or NXT) the market is Rand Paul Coin vs bitUSD.  If there is enough volume in bitUSD the peg will hold better and the price of the asset should not be subject to the volatility of BTS.

I didn't realize that all user-defined assets will be denoted in a bitAssets, but you're just as clueless as me if you think thats the "whole point" of bitAssets.  Someone else in this thread said user defined assets are just like NXT. Well in the NXT wallet there is a market that allows assets to be traded in NXT. So the asset's value is tied into NXT. 

It seems that a user-defined asset can be paired on any market. So the value of the asset will be dependent on the markets it is paired with.  I understand now.  The assumption is that the dominant market will be a bitUSD pair or a different bitAsset. That makes sense. I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as you guys, because the dominant market could also be BTS.

edit - Or is a BTS:UIA not even allowed ?

[clout]

You've missed the whole point of bitAssets. Why is BitShares a better asset exchange, because the market isn't going to be Rand Paul Coin vs BTS (or NXT) the market is Rand Paul Coin vs bitUSD.  If there is enough volume in bitUSD the peg will hold better and the price of the asset should not be subject to the volatility of BTS.

[CLains]

You have some fraction of the thing. The market cap of the thing is 0 to begin with, whatever fraction you have. Market cap is what a fraction is worth multiplied by the total supply.

[gamey]

What I am not getting is...  If I have an asset of THINGS.  I have THINGS for sale at 5 BTS per THING.  If the value of BTS goes up or down, how can it not affect the value of THING?  Ok, the price is the same in BTS, but the value measured in something external has changed ?  Is this not true ?

[biophil]

NXT assets are different though, because they have an internal market.

No, UIA are the same in BTS as Nxt assets. There are a couple mechanical differences that I know of:

1) You can issue new shares in a UIA; a Nxt asset is set in stone forever
2) You can trade any UIA with any UIA (this is how Counterparty works as well); on Nxt you can only trade an asset with Nxt.

[sudo]

how to protect the private key(ags pts) safe?

[xeroc]

Nope .. there are no price feeds for userissued assets ..
The are traded freely within the market .. though th GUI soesnt show them atm ... they are relly the same as in NXT and counterparty

And that is a market internal to BTS and denoted in BTS ?

afaik you can trade UIA against any other asset .. but at least against BTS ..

[gamey]

Nope .. there are no price feeds for userissued assets ..
The are traded freely within the market .. though th GUI soesnt show them atm ... they are relly the same as in NXT and counterparty

And that is a market internal to BTS and denoted in BTS ?

[xeroc]

We should tell svk to remove the feed column from the explorer page

[xeroc]

Nope .. there are no price feeds for userissued assets ..
The are traded freely within the market .. though th GUI soesnt show them atm ... they are relly the same as in NXT and counterparty

[gamey]

I'm having a hard time with this... Hmm it must be because I haven't really seen/used the assets outside bitAssets.

It makes sense though because of the FREE (?) asset that xeroc owns. 

NXT assets are different though, because they have an internal market.  We're just a token system ... The only other asset system I've used is NXT's.  So our difference is we will rely on external markets for price discovery/trading?  NXT which has an internal market would be different.

I think thats right!

[bytemaster]

Internal user issued assets have value fully independent of BTS value... they generally represent a contract or property right or some form of security.

BitAssets depend upon BTS value.

[puppies]

Ultimately the answer is everything, just like the response to the question what does variations in the USD market have on its derivatives markets.  Yes I have taken your suggestion and increased the ethanol volume in my blood.   I'm still pretty sure you're wrong.  I would love to be misproven.

[puppies]

We will see.  I am not forgetting all the times you have  shown me the error of my understanding clout.  I Am still pretty certain your seeming dismissal of the idea that the internal assets value is directly related to the external value is incorrect on many levels.  I know that you are a very intelligent person and I have a hard time reconciling that understanding with posts that read


What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

[gamey]

He is correct ethanol or not.  If BTS inflates or deflates then that impacts the value of the assets that are denoted in it.  A coin wouldn't be pegged to an external source...   Or I'm totally missing something.

[clout]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

of all the things clout.  I am sorry , if it must be me that informs you, but the internal asset, will always be reliant upon the price of BTS.  Up until the point where there is direct asset to specie exchange possible.

This will likely still be reliant on the implied ability to process the exchange, and the willingness of market actors to facilitate that exchange at both a higher risk, and a higher reward than could otherwise be accomplished. 

I know that you are the furthest thing from stupid clout. 

This leads me to be concerned about your actual intention

sorry puppies, with all the respect I have for you; you response is highly unrelated to the clouts comment.

thanks Tony.

I will attempt to explain my position when I have less ethanol in my blood stream than I currently have.  I believed that my response was directly related to clouts concerns. I will either clarify, or retract my position when I address it with less ethanol in my bloodstream..

maybe you need more...

[puppies]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

of all the things clout.  I am sorry , if it must be me that informs you, but the internal asset, will always be reliant upon the price of BTS.  Up until the point where there is direct asset to specie exchange possible.

This will likely still be reliant on the implied ability to process the exchange, and the willingness of market actors to facilitate that exchange at both a higher risk, and a higher reward than could otherwise be accomplished. 

I know that you are the furthest thing from stupid clout. 

This leads me to be concerned about your actual intention

sorry puppies, with all the respect I have for you; you response is highly unrelated to the clouts comment.

thanks Tony.

I will attempt to explain my position when I have less ethanol in my blood stream than I currently have.  I believed that my response was directly related to clouts concerns. I will either clarify, or retract my position when I address it with less ethanol in my bloodstream..

[bytemaster]

I for one welcome the clone wars.... free marketing for us

[Troglodactyl]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

The people behind Rand Paul Coin clearly view an expandable supply with greater suspicion than we do.  If Bitshares somehow hyperinflated to the point of total loss of confidence and value, then delegates would have no incentive.  User issued assets would then be frozen until they could be migrated to a living chain.

Obviously I don't think that would happen, but they probably do, or they wouldn't be forking.

Edit: So the answer to your question is:  Absolutely nothing, unless Bitshares collapsed entirely.

[gamey]

It seems to me that we need more shitcoins or whatever you want to call them.  I don't think they compete with BTS.  If anything they'll let people become familar with the process and then hopefully buy into BTS.

[zerosum]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

of all the things clout.  I am sorry , if it must be me that informs you, but the internal asset, will always be reliant upon the price of BTS.  Up until the point where there is direct asset to specie exchange possible.

This will likely still be reliant on the implied ability to process the exchange, and the willingness of market actors to facilitate that exchange at both a higher risk, and a higher reward than could otherwise be accomplished. 

I know that you are the furthest thing from stupid clout. 

This leads me to be concerned about your actual intention

sorry puppies, with all the respect I have for you; you response is highly unrelated to the clouts comment.

[puppies]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

of all the things clout.  I am sorry , if it must be me that informs you, but the internal asset, will always be reliant upon the price of BTS.  Up until the point where there is direct asset to specie exchange possible.

This will likely still be reliant on the implied ability to process the exchange, and the willingness of market actors to facilitate that exchange at both a higher risk, and a higher reward than could otherwise be accomplished. 

I know that you are the furthest thing from stupid clout. 

This leads me to be concerned about your actual intention

[clout]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

What does and expansion or contraction of the BTS supply have to do with the supply or price of an asset on the platform?

[donkeypong]

An asset? That would be very cool. Better clear it with Rand, though.

[Xeldal]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

 

[Troglodactyl]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

That's a fair point.  With the strong deflationary priority they might be worried that BTS isn't a sound foundation, but it would be easy enough to fork off if Bitshares ever seemed in danger of hyper-inflationary collapse. 

That would save them the overhead of a full new chain and new set of delegates

[clout]

I'd rather see an asset than another chain...

[biophil]

Buying a microscopic dose of Ron Paul coin just in case.. Have a friend who wanted to invest in that one a while back, hope he didn't lose too much :/

Haha, throw 100 bucks in and you control 1% of the shares. This could be fun

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

[GaltReport]

Dude.  Rand ain't a libertarian.  He's a libertarian leaning republican.  Temper your expectations, or you will be as disappointed as the anti war, pro civil liberties supporters of Obama are.

[fuzzy]

Buying a microscopic dose of Ron Paul coin just in case.. Have a friend who wanted to invest in that one a while back, hope he didn't lose too much :/

I know I lost a very decent amount (to me, at least). 

[CLains]

Buying a microscopic dose of Ron Paul coin just in case.. Have a friend who wanted to invest in that one a while back, hope he didn't lose too much :/

[WebDevGeek]

Being the best liberty senator in the US senate is a very low bar.  I would vote for him if there was something else that got me to vote.

[fuzzy]

Dude.  Rand ain't a libertarian.  He's a libertarian leaning republican.  Temper your expectations, or you will be as disappointed as the anti war, pro civil liberties supporters of Obama are.

I actually cant wholly disagree there.. he DID attend bilderberg.  But having ron as a father has to count for something.  Biggest thing to me though...is getting political support for bitshares.  If that happens, we have "legitimacy".  Of course from there it is up to us what we do with it.

[puppies]

He has proven that he is willing to go along to get along.  I would love nothing more than to entertain the notion that this has all been an elaborate scam to make it by the special interests that control his party.  That would be folly.

Either way though.  This coin honors the social contract, and could be a benefit to me both economically and socially.  (We can't forget the amazing good caused by Ron's lat two campaigns.)

[donkeypong]

Dude.  Rand ain't a libertarian.  He's a libertarian leaning republican.  Temper your expectations, or you will be as disappointed as the anti war, pro civil liberties supporters of Obama are.

I'm with you there. He'd be a lot better on some issues, but worse on others thst he'd rather not talk about. And there is plenty of groveling to come. In order to win a single primary in today's GOP, one needs to be certifiably crazy or build up tremendous favors with the corporate interests that control the party. In most states, you also need blessings from the right wing evangelicals. That fundamentalist, hateful, and racist wing of the party will either force Rand to dumb down his tolerant positions on social issues (even more than John McCain's ugly groveling or Mitt Romney's flip-flopping) or else Rand won't get farther than Kentucky.

[puppies]

Dude.  Rand ain't a libertarian.  He's a libertarian leaning republican.  Temper your expectations, or you will be as disappointed as the anti war, pro civil liberties supporters of Obama are.

[fuzzy]

This is great news!  Alt coins making their way into the market with 10%PTS/10%AGS just as planned 

Apparently those complaining about BM killing PTS were wrong huh?

Suppose bytemaster may have known something all along that many people didn't...that he didn't intend to be the King of BitShares, just the genius who designed it for a free people.

Never been more proud to have witnessed this from the beginning.  Playing a role, no matter how small...will someday be looked upon by all of us as an amazing honor.

Now let me get back to chatting with my buddies so we can see about helping elect crypto's first libertarian President.

[yellowecho]

This is great news!  Alt coins making their way into the market with 10%PTS/10%AGS just as planned 

[fuzzy]

On it... I was an avid ron paul supporter. This gave me an in with their community.  Hell yeh man...

[puppies]

I was gonna respond and talk trash about Rand.  Then I read the ann thread.  I actually kind of like it.  I don't think it will work, but its a neat idea.

[toast]

Haha, awesome. First good vanilla altcoin for bts

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Pheonike]

Not sure what to think

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848182.0;all