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Offline aftw

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Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« on: November 06, 2014, 08:22:00 PM »

Now that the snapshot has taken place what are the reasons to continue to hold PTS? Is 'this' PTS being taken over? If so, will it be part of the Bitshares ecosystem or related to Bitshares in any way?

Is AlphaBar's PTS different than 'this' PTS? How will it be related to Bitshares?

Can someone explain vesting? If I had 730 shares of PTS at the snapshot how many shares of BTS do I have on day one of its launch? One? My understanding is that I will have 730 BTS shares, plus an additional 73 shares at 10%, after two years. Is that correct?

Can DNS be sold? Is there any reason to continue to hold it?

I know the ultimate goal with this reorganization is to simplify (and I'm hopeful it will) but currently it is confusing. It is hard to decipher which communications are from official sources (or even who the official sources are) and which are from well-meaning but only partially informed sources. As well, understanding which ideas are proposals and which are decided courses of action can be difficult. 

I plan to continue to hold for the long-term as my hope is that Bitshares can recover from this damage.

Offline LadyHeadShoot

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 08:48:30 PM »
what are the reasons to continue to hold PTS?




I plan to continue to hold for the long-term as my hope is that Bitshares can recover from this damage.

good plan - for me

Offline biophil

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2014, 12:22:18 AM »
Most of your questions are hard to answer. We don't know yet if alphaBar's PTS will use the nov5 snapshot or some future snapshot, so maybe the current pow PTS will be worth something, maybe it won't.

There's a small group of people here who want to keep DNS going as a separate DAC, but I don't know what the status is of that.

For what it's worth, I sold all my PTS as soon as Bter reopened trading, and I sold all my DNS 2 weeks ago. I think it's extremely unlikely that PTS will maintain its current value. Most likely, there are huge amounts of PTS in unconfirmed deposits to exchanges, since PTS miners still haven't produced a block since before the snapshot. If those transactions ever confirm, there will be an epic flood of selling on the exchanges.

One question I can answer: 1 PTS gets you about 100 BTS, so if you had 730 PTS at the snapshot, you get about 100 BTS per day for the next 2 years. Plain and simple. You mentioned something about 10%... any bonus was priced in, not coded in.

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« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 02:08:57 PM by biophil »

Offline Ander

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2014, 12:29:47 AM »
Can someone explain vesting? If I had 730 shares of PTS at the snapshot how many shares of BTS do I have on day one of its launch? One? My understanding is that I will have 730 BTS shares, plus an additional 73 shares at 10%, after two years. Is that correct?

Your 730 PTS shares are worth X shares of BTS (I dont remember the exact numbers right now). 

On day 1 you can get none of those shares.
After 1 month you can get 1/24 of those shares.
After 1 year you can get half of those shares.
After 2 years you can get them all.


So, for example, you could claim 1/24 of your eventual BTS shares every month for the next two years, if you wanted.

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Offline aftw

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2014, 02:20:40 AM »
Thank you for your answers.

Ander, when you say claim, does that imply a process is needed to claim them as they vest or will they automatically appear in my wallet as available? Will the remaining balance appear somewhere in my wallet as some sort of a pending balance?

biophil, my understanding was that a premium (I seem to remember 10%) was being paid for the PTS shares due to being locked up. Your understanding is that was priced into the % sharedropped?

So do I have this right... if I had 730 PTS at snapshot and 1 PTS = 100 BTSX, I would receive 3,000 BTS after one month and 73,000 BTS after 2 years? No lockup premium would be due either monthly or after the full two-year term?

Offline biophil

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2014, 04:39:31 AM »

biophil, my understanding was that a premium (I seem to remember 10%) was being paid for the PTS shares due to being locked up. Your understanding is that was priced into the % sharedropped?

So do I have this right... if I had 730 PTS at snapshot and 1 PTS = 100 BTSX, I would receive 3,000 BTS after one month and 73,000 BTS after 2 years? No lockup premium would be due either monthly or after the full two-year term?

That's right. 1 PTS is about 100 BTS, and PTS were trading anywhere from 85x to 120x the price of BTSX. So at best, the lockup premium was 15%, and at worst, around negative 20%. But you have to take into account that the same exact PTS snapshot will be used for BitShares Play and whatever replaces PTS, and whatever other projects decide to use this snapshot. So the value of 1 PTS on the snapshot included 100 locked-up BTS, some number of PLAYs, and some number of future PTSs. We knew the price of BTS ahead of time, but we have no idea how to price either PLAY or future PTS.

So the reality is that we don't really know how to calculate the lockup premium. 10% was calculated when PTS was trading at 90x the price of BTSX, and people were assuming that the only value PTS contained was that of BTS. Eventually it became clear that the market was pricing in a bunch of other things.

This was my long-winded answer to say "yes, the premium was priced in, not hard-coded."

Offline pc

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 09:39:52 AM »

 since PTS miners still haven't produced a block since before the snapshot.

That's not correct. Three blocks were mined yesterday, and today has already seen two. The network is *very* slow, but it's not dead.
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Online chryspano

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 09:50:29 AM »
Can someone explain vesting? If I had 730 shares of PTS at the snapshot how many shares of BTS do I have on day one of its launch? One? My understanding is that I will have 730 BTS shares, plus an additional 73 shares at 10%, after two years. Is that correct?

Your 730 PTS shares are worth X shares of BTS (I dont remember the exact numbers right now). 

On day 1 you can get none of those shares.
After 1 month you can get 1/24 of those shares.
After 1 year you can get half of those shares.
After 2 years you can get them all.


So, for example, you could claim 1/24 of your eventual BTS shares every month for the next two years, if you wanted.

Are you sure about the "per month" vesting? Last time I checked  I think it was daily vesting and maybe per block.


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You will not have to do anything else, it will be automatic.

Offline biophil

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 02:08:10 PM »

 since PTS miners still haven't produced a block since before the snapshot.

That's not correct. Three blocks were mined yesterday, and today has already seen two. The network is *very* slow, but it's not dead.

When I posted that, it had been something like 14 hours since the last block. I'm glad to see the network is actually still running!

Offline Riverhead

Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 02:43:20 PM »

When I posted that, it had been something like 14 hours since the last block. I'm glad to see the network is actually still running!


Thinking of firing up a low watt 270x miner to help keep PTS alive. Slow blocks are better than no blocks.

Offline biophil

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 02:50:58 PM »
When I posted that, it had been something like 14 hours since the last block. I'm glad to see the network is actually still running!

Thinking of firing up a low watt 270x miner to help keep PTS alive. Slow blocks are better than no blocks.

Cool, go for it! The market clearly thinks it's worth it; I never expected the price to be this high on the 2nd day after the snapshot!

Offline aftw

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 05:54:13 PM »
Thank you everyone.

Offline Ander

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 06:06:55 PM »

Are you sure about the "per month" vesting? Last time I checked  I think it was daily vesting and maybe per block.

The vesting is daily.

I was just using months as an example.
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Offline sirlo

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Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 10:56:21 PM »
Hi everyone,

Does anyone know if the PTS network is temporarily suspended or if it will ever resume normal operations?

I had withdrawn some PTS from bter to deposit in an online PTS web-wallet on 11-4 before the snapshot, but it still
had not shown up in the wallet as of 11-5 and now I cannot even login into the PTS wallet ...it just says "login fail"?
I checked via the pts explorer and the transaction was included in a block ..

Has anyone else encountered these kinds of problems?  Is there a thread anywhere discussing what is going on with
PTS..

Thanks..

Offline Riverhead

Re: Selling PTS Post Snapshot
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 11:49:13 PM »
It's up to the miners.

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