Author Topic: pts price crash  (Read 7362 times)

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Offline pc

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2014, 08:23:51 am »
You can use proof of burn to a null address as an "AGS" style way of getting your stake.

Nothing says that PTS cannot be "split" into two networks... 1 that is slowly dying like POW and the other growing DPOS...

Just have several burn addresses.... let PTS users pick their fate.

"slowly dying" is tricky for a pure PoW coin. You need a certain minimum hashrate to keep the network going, otherwise people can't burn their old coins anymore. The network is barely alive now, and it will get worse once we start the DPOS chain (which is a good thing, IMO - we want to get rid of Proof-of-Waste :-).
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Offline biophil

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2014, 02:06:25 am »
You can use proof of burn to a null address as an "AGS" style way of getting your stake.

Nothing says that PTS cannot be "split" into two networks... 1 that is slowly dying like POW and the other growing DPOS...

Just have several burn addresses.... let PTS users pick their fate.

Yeah, but that requires waiting until the burn period is over to launch the new asset, which is much less elegant than the XCP burn was.

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Offline bytemaster

Re: pts price crash
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2014, 11:41:21 pm »
You can use proof of burn to a null address as an "AGS" style way of getting your stake.

Nothing says that PTS cannot be "split" into two networks... 1 that is slowly dying like POW and the other growing DPOS...

Just have several burn addresses.... let PTS users pick their fate. 
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Offline biophil

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 11:38:53 pm »

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.

 +5%

It would just be giving back PTS to those that sold after the snapshot so that they could sell it again.

Can't existing POW PTS be sent by users to a 'proof-of-burn' address in order to receive new DPOS PTS?

If a burn address were used it would be a way to increase the value of the new DPOS PTS:
  • It removes potential competition - what if someone else decided to 'revive' the old POW PTS in a slightly different way? It's harder for them if a load of it's been burned already.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have demonstrated some kind of commitment to it by burning the old PTS.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have also had to invest in it (in a way) by having to think about it and make a conscious decision.

The above points make it a bit more viable and therefore more valuable.

Other advantages of proof-of-burn:
  • Because action is required to claim DPOS PTS, it means that all hodlers are currently active. That is to say, it could clear out 'lost', inactive or exchange-owned PTS
  • Erm...

If it were to be done from a snapshot we would then have the old POW PTS remaining. This could go on ad infinitum. Dumping, keeping, buying, other devs reviving the old, old PTS with a different feature...101 different versions of PTS. I'm sure some people would say this is fine - let there be competition. I think it'd be too messy.

Wouldn't proof-of-burn bring more clarity and finality to the situation?

I think proof of burn is cool, but the burn period would have to be extremely long, maybe infinite because the original story of PTS was "buy, hodl, and you'll never regret." It would be a shame if someone bought PTS way back in December and then checked the forums a day after the burn period ended.

Another issue is that proof of burn (when XCP did it) happens all on one blockchain; to do it going from PoW to DPOS, you'd need every DPOS delegate to be running a full PTS node and then you'd need to upgrade the vanilla DPOS protocol to somehow monitor the PTS burn address and provably, trustlessly, issue new shares to the burner. I don't mean to say this is impossible, but the DPOS PTS crew is trying to do this upgrade on a shoestring budget and implementing POB would require quite a bit of new development.

Contrast this with issuing shares based on a snapshot, which is already implemented in BTS.

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Offline bytemaster

Re: pts price crash
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 11:22:30 pm »

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.

 +5%

It would just be giving back PTS to those that sold after the snapshot so that they could sell it again.

Can't existing POW PTS be sent by users to a 'proof-of-burn' address in order to receive new DPOS PTS?

If a burn address were used it would be a way to increase the value of the new DPOS PTS:
  • It removes potential competition - what if someone else decided to 'revive' the old POW PTS in a slightly different way? It's harder for them if a load of it's been burned already.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have demonstrated some kind of commitment to it by burning the old PTS.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have also had to invest in it (in a way) by having to think about it and make a conscious decision.

The above points make it a bit more viable and therefore more valuable.

Other advantages of proof-of-burn:
  • Because action is required to claim DPOS PTS, it means that all hodlers are currently active. That is to say, it could clear out 'lost', inactive or exchange-owned PTS
  • Erm...

If it were to be done from a snapshot we would then have the old POW PTS remaining. This could go on ad infinitum. Dumping, keeping, buying, other devs reviving the old, old PTS with a different feature...101 different versions of PTS. I'm sure some people would say this is fine - let there be competition. I think it'd be too messy.

Wouldn't proof-of-burn bring more clarity and finality to the situation?

I think proof-of-burn is the only way to upgrade PTS and make sure the old version of PTS dies.   When you snapshot in the future it could be hybrid between old / new PTS in a ratio proportional to the BURN.   

If you opt for this approach you could have 2 different burn addresses: 1 for a User Issued Asset on BTS and 1 for a custom chain with is own delegates.

Let PTS holders exit to both options.
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Offline hadrian

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 11:04:15 pm »

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.

 +5%

It would just be giving back PTS to those that sold after the snapshot so that they could sell it again.

Can't existing POW PTS be sent by users to a 'proof-of-burn' address in order to receive new DPOS PTS?

If a burn address were used it would be a way to increase the value of the new DPOS PTS:
  • It removes potential competition - what if someone else decided to 'revive' the old POW PTS in a slightly different way? It's harder for them if a load of it's been burned already.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have demonstrated some kind of commitment to it by burning the old PTS.
  • DPOS PTS hodlers have also had to invest in it (in a way) by having to think about it and make a conscious decision.

The above points make it a bit more viable and therefore more valuable.

Other advantages of proof-of-burn:
  • Because action is required to claim DPOS PTS, it means that all hodlers are currently active. That is to say, it could clear out 'lost', inactive or exchange-owned PTS
  • Erm...

If it were to be done from a snapshot we would then have the old POW PTS remaining. This could go on ad infinitum. Dumping, keeping, buying, other devs reviving the old, old PTS with a different feature...101 different versions of PTS. I'm sure some people would say this is fine - let there be competition. I think it'd be too messy.

Wouldn't proof-of-burn bring more clarity and finality to the situation?

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Offline Riverhead

Re: pts price crash
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 03:10:35 pm »

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.

 +5%

It would just be giving back PTS to those that sold after the snapshot so that they could sell it again.

Offline toobox

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2014, 11:21:06 am »
@biophil thanks for answering, i see a little bit clearer now :)


Offline donkeypong

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2014, 10:38:35 pm »
Whoever's buying PTS is doing so on pure speculation. It has no inherent value because there aren't any DACs on the horizon. Furthermore, it's risky because its miners and exchanges may not stick with it.

Offline biophil

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2014, 09:30:08 pm »
The simple answer is that No, PTS is not useless. However, it's not quite clear what PTS is: there is a team of people trying reboot a DPOS version of PTS, but they haven't decided whether they're going to use a snapshot of PTS from November 5th or whether they're going to use a future snapshot.

Although I'm not quite authoritative wrt the snapshot question, I'm *very* certain that we're going to use a future snapshot.

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.

Thanks pc, I'm very glad to hear you say this. I'm updating my post accordingly. I agree that the Nov5 snapshot doesn't make sense; especially since PTS is still trading and the PoW chain (against all odds) is still operating.
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Offline pc

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2014, 08:19:35 pm »
The simple answer is that No, PTS is not useless. However, it's not quite clear what PTS is: there is a team of people trying reboot a DPOS version of PTS, but they haven't decided whether they're going to use a snapshot of PTS from November 5th or whether they're going to use a future snapshot.

Although I'm not quite authoritative wrt the snapshot question, I'm *very* certain that we're going to use a future snapshot.

The plan, in general, is to upgrade the existing PTS to a DPOS chain. That means that all transactions in the old chain must be honoured, up to a yet-to-be-announced point in the future. Using the Nov-5 snapshot simply doesn't make any sense.
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Offline biophil

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2014, 05:19:22 pm »
Hi and i will start with "What's going on?"

i have some questions, hope someone can answer them, because i lost complete the overview here.
I was very busy with other tasks, therefore i was not able to do the key import for bitshares dns,
now i am reading, that bitshares dns not even exits anymore.. and also that Protoshares is almost
done or is done... i mean all that happened in the last 4-5 weeks?????
Great.
my questions:
I. "So PTS is nearly useless now?"

Hi toobox, I know things look awful, but don't worry - it's not quite the shambles it appears.

The simple answer is that No, PTS is not useless. However, it's not quite clear what PTS is: there is a team of people trying reboot a DPOS version of PTS, but they haven't decided whether they're going to use a snapshot of PTS from November 5th or whether they're going to use a future snapshot. So maybe the PTS on exchanges is future PTS, maybe it's not. You probably shouldn't buy or sell PTS right now without doing some due diligence. (for my part, I sold all my PTS immediately after Nov 5.)

EDIT: See below for a comment by user "pc," who is one of those involved in plotting a course for the future of PTS. He says most likely PTS will be snapshotted in the future and the DPOS upgrade will not use the November 5 snapshot.

II. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?

No, you're fine. Your PTS keys were already in the DNS genesis block, so they got snapshotted. When you import your PTS keys to the new BTS, you'll have BTS that came directly from PTS via the Nov 5 snapshot, you'll have BTS that came from VOTE via PTS via the Nov 5 snapshot, and you'll have shares from DNS via PTS via the Nov 5 snapshot.

The trick is that if you held PTS during a snapshot, you get shares in a chain whether you claim them or not. All your shares are safe, don't worry.

Quote
III. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet?

No.

Quote
IV. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"

Um, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. In the BTC wallet debug console, there are a number of commands that let you see what addresses are in there; I think listaddressgroupings is one. But your best bet is probably to go into the BTC debug console and type "help" and start messing around.


Quote
V. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"

I'd look here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0

Most likely, that's going to be a decent overview.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 09:32:15 pm by biophil »
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Offline kalash1337

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2014, 12:10:33 pm »
is not... my friend says this... but i dont know 100%

Offline toobox

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2014, 12:03:33 pm »
Hi and i will start with "What's going on?"

i have some questions, hope someone can answer them, because i lost complete the overview here.
I was very busy with other tasks, therefore i was not able to do the key import for bitshares dns,
now i am reading, that bitshares dns not even exits anymore.. and also that Protoshares is almost
done or is done... i mean all that happened in the last 4-5 weeks?????
Great.
my questions:
I. "So PTS is nearly useless now?"
II. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?
III. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet?
IV. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"
V. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"

thank you in advance


Offline Stan

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Re: pts price crash
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2014, 04:06:39 am »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.