Author Topic: Now I'm completely confused. What exactly is going on with PTS, BTSX, BTS???  (Read 7670 times)

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Offline islandking

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QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
There was no merger but share drop by BTSX.
PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.

Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.

BTSX will become BTS so if you have 100 BTSX right now you will have 100 BTS. Nothing changes except for the name. They are just changing the name from BTSX to BTS. Hope that clears it up for you :)

It does. TY very much

No problem :) I was confused as well a few days ago.
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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
There was no merger but share drop by BTSX.
PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.

Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.

BTSX will become BTS so if you have 100 BTSX right now you will have 100 BTS. Nothing changes except for the name. They are just changing the name from BTSX to BTS. Hope that clears it up for you :)

It does. TY very much

Offline islandking

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QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
There was no merger but share drop by BTSX.
PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.

Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.

BTSX will become BTS so if you have 100 BTSX right now you will have 100 BTS. Nothing changes except for the name. They are just changing the name from BTSX to BTS. Hope that clears it up for you :)
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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
There was no merger but share drop by BTSX.
PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.

Could you elaborate on this no merger but sharedrop with some simple details as I keep reading different things. Will there be BTS and BTSX? When BTS is released will then BTSX be far less valuable? What is the reason to hold BTSX now or in the future if it does exist along with BTS? WHen will BTS be released? etc.

Offline vegolino

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QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?
There was no merger but share drop by BTSX.
PTS has plummeted as Invictus has withdrawn support and BTSX did not as Invictus will continue to develop it and support it under new name BitShares.

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.

From an outsiders point of view, it is confusing. I run a crypto group with around 3600+ people, and I can assure you that most don't understand this, at all, so they are very wary of it. They ask me to explain it, but frankly I don't want to risk giving them some bad advice, so I tell them to just go here and figure it out for themselves. It might be simple for some traders, but compared to just buying Bitcoin, it isn't.

I don't own any, and I am not even sure which one I should be buying or dropping as I have not been paying enough attention. It just appears too much like a game of Three-Card Monte. That said, I think the tech and ideas are fascinating. However, I am more concerned about the marketing and investors getting burned for not understanding it well enough. That is why I don't recommend it much, yet.

Why would anyone invest/trade on something he doesn't take time to understand... if you just randomly chose things to throw money at just based on the market cap, you shouldn't be very surprised to have surprises.

I agree it's really time consuming to follow what's happening here, but it's not even officially released. The merger was a correction on the direction to take, and it was based on an excellent analysis of what would happen in the future if it didn't happen. People that didn't agree with this analysis sold, hence the recent big drop in price. Now the developers and marketers can focus on a very clear product, that will be pushed in the next weeks/months.

Some people (i.e. alphaBar) spread some confusion and make the message very unclear, that's sad, but it should be over soon when the leading team pushes the new unified product.

QUESTION: If PTS price plummeted as for all intents and purposes it is useless right now, why hasn't the BTSX price plummeted equally? If there was a merger then wouldn't both be useless and worthless now and only BTS(when it's released, based on your holdings of both PTS and BTSX, be useful and valuable?

Offline inarizushi

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I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.

From an outsiders point of view, it is confusing. I run a crypto group with around 3600+ people, and I can assure you that most don't understand this, at all, so they are very wary of it. They ask me to explain it, but frankly I don't want to risk giving them some bad advice, so I tell them to just go here and figure it out for themselves. It might be simple for some traders, but compared to just buying Bitcoin, it isn't.

I don't own any, and I am not even sure which one I should be buying or dropping as I have not been paying enough attention. It just appears too much like a game of Three-Card Monte. That said, I think the tech and ideas are fascinating. However, I am more concerned about the marketing and investors getting burned for not understanding it well enough. That is why I don't recommend it much, yet.

Why would anyone invest/trade on something he doesn't take time to understand... if you just randomly chose things to throw money at just based on the market cap, you shouldn't be very surprised to have surprises.

I agree it's really time consuming to follow what's happening here, but it's not even officially released. The merger was a correction on the direction to take, and it was based on an excellent analysis of what would happen in the future if it didn't happen. People that didn't agree with this analysis sold, hence the recent big drop in price. Now the developers and marketers can focus on a very clear product, that will be pushed in the next weeks/months.

Some people (i.e. alphaBar) spread some confusion and make the message very unclear, that's sad, but it should be over soon when the leading team pushes the new unified product.
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Offline cryptocc

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I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.

From an outsiders point of view, it is confusing. I run a crypto group with around 3600+ people, and I can assure you that most don't understand this, at all, so they are very wary of it. They ask me to explain it, but frankly I don't want to risk giving them some bad advice, so I tell them to just go here and figure it out for themselves. It might be simple for some traders, but compared to just buying Bitcoin, it isn't.

I don't own any, and I am not even sure which one I should be buying or dropping as I have not been paying enough attention. It just appears too much like a game of Three-Card Monte. That said, I think the tech and ideas are fascinating. However, I am more concerned about the marketing and investors getting burned for not understanding it well enough. That is why I don't recommend it much, yet.

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.

Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.  8)

There already is one. I was directed to it a few months ago:

Keeping track of projects that make use of your PTS

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1425.0

Offline alphaBar

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PTS is alive and well and so is the social consensus. PTS will be the preferred sharedrop instrument of future 3rd party DACs. We have yet to decide whether to use the Nov. 5th snapshot (since a future snapshot may not be possible if mining stops completely), but rest assured that we have a functional testnet, new website and marketing in the works, and an active group of dedicated developers and marketers. Stay tuned for more information...

Offline fuzzy

It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.

Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.  8)

Great idea.  I'm for anything that makes it easier for newbies to the ecosystem and everyone else should be too imho.

While we are at it, can we also add Encyclopædia Britannica to the GUI, please. Very useful for newbies and everybody else imho.

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Offline Ander

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I agree. :)


I was just doubling down on tony's comment.
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Offline davidpbrown

:D

You jest but the DAC space offering that beats all others, will accommodate the greater number of users and make it easy to fall into. BitShares needs to become fool-proof not just full-proof. There is low hanging fruit making certain aspects more obvious. Obviously at a point such work becomes more effort than it returns but if we get another +5% population, that might be all the edge BitShares needs to dominate the major DAC types.
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Offline Ander

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While we are at it, can we also add Encyclopædia Britannica to the GUI, please. Very useful for newbies and everybody else imho.

:D

Indeed.  Also, lets hand feed any newbie traders some expert level technical analysis  and provide buy and sell signals, all in the client. :)
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zerosum

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It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.

Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.  8)

Great idea.  I'm for anything that makes it easier for newbies to the ecosystem and everyone else should be too imho.

While we are at it, can we also add Encyclopædia Britannica to the GUI, please. Very useful for newbies and everybody else imho.

Offline fuzzy

It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.

Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.  8)

Great idea.  I'm for anything that makes it easier for newbies to the ecosystem and everyone else should be too imho.
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Offline Pheonike

I think its simple. Those who truly believe in Bitshares bought or converted to BTSX. Those that wanted to hedge didn't. I never owned pts, just AGS and btsx so I guess it was easier to not get confused, just buy and hold.

Offline davidpbrown

It would help having a simple reference table for the DACs, listing key data about what snapshots have occurred; when; and how those honored the social contract relative to PTS/AGS/BTSX/BTS. There are already too many threads of complexity in BitShares let alone other flavours of crypto-assets, to expect most investors to watch all the detail. Just knowing which are considered within core dev team remit and which are seen as third party would be useful.

Perhaps such detail could be put into the wallet GUI? So that holders of BTS can see what is pending and what stage that is at. Anything to make the positives more visible will help.  8)
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Offline fuzzy


Its more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). 

So it stayed alive.


And so they will have to speculate with their time and effort in hopes of keeping it alive without any future sharedrops from I3.  What is the problem with this?

I dont have a problem with it. 
Its just that people somehow manage to be confused about every possible thing about the merger, and I wish they would just figure their shit out and realize they should be buying more Bitshares. :)

It will all work out in time.  If/when BTS goes hrough the roof, I think PTS will really shine.  If BTS doesnt...there is still a decent chance of devs reaching out to PTS holders.  maybe even old members of invictus' crew.  :)

PTS is going to be awesome either way so long as distribution does not become too centralized.  Unfortunately, i do not see so sweet an ending for AGS though.  Maybe I'm wrong!
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Offline Ander

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Its more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). 

So it stayed alive.


And so they will have to speculate with their time and effort in hopes of keeping it alive without any future sharedrops from I3.  What is the problem with this?

I dont have a problem with it. 
Its just that people somehow manage to be confused about every possible thing about the merger, and I wish they would just figure their shit out and realize they should be buying more Bitshares. :)
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Offline fuzzy


Its more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). 

So it stayed alive.


And so they will have to speculate with their time and effort in hopes of keeping it alive without any future sharedrops from I3.  What is the problem with this?
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Offline fuzzy

the core change is in fact simple

I3 will not honor in the future PTS or AGS and "mergered" their promises in the new BTS SuperDAC

so AGS and PTS are worthless if you expect more DACs from I3

BUT

so social consensus for using the bitshares-toolkit is still in place so as a holder of AGS or PTS you can expect a minimum allocation of each 10% if the developers want the blessing and support from our community. So in fact this "speculation" will give PTS worth.

Hope now is everything clear!



Bbbbbbingo! +5%
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Offline Stan

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

The newsletter and half my postings for the past two weeks have stated otherwise.   :)

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Ander

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The confusion is that we were told that PTS was being mergred into BTS which implies it won't exist anymore.  Then some people got upset about this so we were told it is really a "sharedrop" to PTS rather than a "merge".

Its more like: Some people ABSOLUTELY INSISTED on keeping PTS alive (AlphaBar, etc). 

So it stayed alive.

And therefore, people are totally fucking confused.
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Offline GaltReport

The confusion is that we were told that PTS was being mergred into BTS which implies it won't exist anymore.  Then some people got upset about this so we were told it is really a "sharedrop" to PTS rather than a "merge".  This implies the possibility of continued existence of PTS.  This idea was further advance by saying that "future DACs" could still snapshot PTS (which PTS?  The "final" PTS snapshot or some continued existing PTS?).

I think this is what happens when you try to please everyone.

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I appreciate everyone's replies and yes you have cleared many things up. However, as clear as you may think Bitshares announcement was, it most certainly was not to everyone. The fact that there are still many trading PTS makes that obvious. And the constant changes make it seem as though there is no direction.

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I. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?
No, you didn't lose anything. Importing your PTS keys will give you "new bitshares" that you are eligible for via DNS.
II. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet and was the snapshot already?
There will be no separate Vote DAC/wallet. The features planned for Vote will be included in BTS eventually.
III. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"
listaddressgroupings command in your PTS/BTC wallet console.
IV. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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I'm not positive as I didn't hold any PTS, but from the sounds of it the PTS network was extremely slow following the snapshot on the 5th. Sounded like it took many hours (12+) for people's money to move to an exchange (BTER, probably) if they wanted to sell. The liquidity at BTER was pretty low after the snapshot; nothing like BTC38 (which immediately stopped allowing PTS trades). So in all actuality, there was probably a slim chance you would've been able to sell them at any decent price anyway.

Offline Shentist

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the core change is in fact simple

I3 will not honor in the future PTS or AGS and "mergered" their promises in the new BTS SuperDAC

so AGS and PTS are worthless if you expect more DACs from I3

BUT

so social consensus for using the bitshares-toolkit is still in place so as a holder of AGS or PTS you can expect a minimum allocation of each 10% if the developers want the blessing and support from our community. So in fact this "speculation" will give PTS worth.

Hope now is everything clear!

Offline Ander

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They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore.

There are people out there who want them to exist.  for example, alphaBar is pushing his new PTS based DPoS coin.




Quote
I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

Yes, everyone who held PTS shouldve dumped it immediately after snapshot while the price was high.  Basically a couple people managed to do this and they benefitted.  But everyone else didnt lose.  Everyone else stayed the same in terms of their value.  It doesnt hurt you that you didnt happen to be the lucky one.

I personally doubled my BTSX holdings after the price drop, a week ago.  I havent sold any and do not plan to until prices rise significantly.
There is no reason to dump BTSX.   
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Offline hadrian

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

BTSX is one thing you shouldn't dump. There was no snapshot for BTSX, they will become BTS after a software upgrade later this month.
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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

Offline hadrian

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@bitcoinnoisseur

Don't worry, I understand your concerns and frustrations, but I don't think you've missed out. All's well that ends well, and I think if you hang on with BitShares you may see a very nice ending!
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zerosum

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

I already read that and not only is the whole shares allocation confusing, it doesn't answer my main questions. Why does PTS even still exist? Why would anyone still  hold them? Why would anyone still buy them? Every single person that didn't know or understand they were supposed to drop them like hot potatoes lost massive amounts of money by holding them in their wallet like they thought they were supposed to do. How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.
Actually it is the total opposite - everybody who knew they (PTS) are  supposed to drop to near zero right after 5th lost a massive amount of money. The one who did not sell their PTS, not only got the new BTS from holding them, but also got a big chunk in the Play DAC - the allocation came after 5th. If that is not enough those same holders can now sell the PTS for significantly more than the 0 value expected...To say nothing that with those proceeds they can now buy more BTS and get even bigger stake in PLAY DAC (as they will snapshot BTS at some point in the future (it is in the future because it is still BTSX around not BTS))


Ignorance is a bliss, should have been created for those PTS holders...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 06:00:35 pm by tonyk2 »

Offline Ander

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So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

Exactly.  There was a *very small* window for people to dump some PTS for extra value, taking advantage of those who still had buy orders up who didnt understand.  That opportunity is mostly gone now, but thats okay. 
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Offline hadrian

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If you still have PTS there is the possibility of gaining from 3rd party airdrops in the future, as you may be considered part of a valuable demographic. I still have some. I might have sold after the snapshot while the prices were still high, but I was too busy to follow it closely. The prices shouldn't really have stayed so high - it's been suggested that some people forgot to turn off their bots!
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Offline Ander

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How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.

Music isnt part of the sharedrop to BTS so it is not effected.


Yes, PTS and DNS should be essentially worthless now.  And everyone who had them is getting equivalent or more BTS. 
Yes, the people who understood what was happening had an opportunity to dump a small amount of shares of PTS after the snapshot was taken, and before the price went down.  The people who bought after Nov 5 are being stupid/uninformed.  They should have researched before they bought.

The fact that people do not understand this and are for some reason spending money on PTS and DNS that are now worthless is not the fault of the bitshares devs, who have clearly outlined what is happening.



I should repeat that you probably havent lost any money, because you are getting BTS based on your PTS/etc shares.  Unless you bought after Nov 5.
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sumantso

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

Offline Ander

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I have lost thousands by holding my PTS.

You have lost nothing.  You are getting BTS approximately equal to the value of PTS you have lost.  Actually, probably more.

Quote
Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot?

They shouldnt, at least until the price has fallen 90%.  Because almost of the value in PTS was in the BTS youre getting.  People buying PTS after Nov 5 dont know what they are doing.

Quote
I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck.

No, its just that people apparently cannot read the very clear explanations that are being put out by the bitshares team, such as this:
http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/

Please go there and learn what is going on. :)
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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

I already read that and not only is the whole shares allocation confusing, it doesn't answer my main questions. Why does PTS even still exist? Why would anyone still  hold them? Why would anyone still buy them? Every single person that didn't know or understand they were supposed to drop them like hot potatoes lost massive amounts of money by holding them in their wallet like they thought they were supposed to do. How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I do know that you don't have to worry about not importing your PTS wallet into your DNS wallet. You will get credit for them when BTS is airdropped. I was never even able to setup my KeyID as I needed to go to one of 2 KeyID account faucets that were always empty. Why I would ever have to do that is beyond me but ridiculous nonetheless. N0 one wants to constantly be having to check here and scour through thousands of posts just so they don't get screwed. The few in the know most certainly profit with every single twist while everyone else loses. It seems as there is no direction as everything is constantly changing.

Offline vegolino

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

Offline toobox

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well i'm confused too, so i will add my questions here  :)

i have some questions, hope someone can answer them, because i lost complete the overview here.
I was very busy with other tasks, therefore i was not able to do the key import for bitshares dns,
now i am reading, that bitshares dns not even exits anymore.. and also that Protoshares is almost
done or is done... i mean all that happened in the last 4-5 weeks?

my questions:
I. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?
II. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet and was the snapshot already?
III. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"
IV. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"

thank you in advance

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.