Author Topic: Should there be a BitShares foundation?  (Read 4318 times)

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Offline cass

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With 3i dissolving (right?) should we put together a BitShares foundation to try to protect trademarks and advocate for BitShares in similar ways that the Bitcoin foundation, or the GNOME foundation does?

Absolutely not. A cooperative would have major benefits without the flaws of a foundation. Foundations have to be non profits while cooperatives can profit. Foundations don't allow us to collectively own it while cooperatives would be owned by us.

The foundation model just doesn't work very well for Bitshares in my opinion and I favor a Bitshares Cooperative similar to the Cog Cooperative.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10468.0
I am in favor for luckybit's proposal ..

IMHO we should have an entity that can take legal actions against fraudsters that are using the BitShares brand

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Offline mint chocolate chip

With 3i dissolving (right?) should we put together a BitShares foundation to try to protect trademarks and advocate for BitShares in similar ways that the Bitcoin foundation, or the GNOME foundation does?

The GNOME foundation is being put to the test right now...
http://www.geek.com/apps/groupon-ignores-17-years-of-open-source-history-tries-to-trademark-gnome-1609149/

Offline Brent.Allsop

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The Bitcoin, or any "foundation" is just another beurocracy that can't scale without becoming terribly hierarchical, polarized, bottlenecked and evil (i.e. only focusing on what the guys at the top want).

In my opinion the only thing we need to be able to do is to build consensus.  Not just popular consensus, but expert consensus, capital consensus, mining/network processing consensus, and many  other kinds of consensus.

If we need to put up some money on lawyers to defend one of us from some government action, like everything else, it is simply a matter of building enough capital consensus. 
If we want to make a dramatic and quick change to the processing network, we simply need to build consensus amongst the 101 delegates to agree to adopt the change...

When you think about it, EVERYTING is about building consensus.  In the past, the only way to get consensus to scale, is through building a hierarchy.  All we need to do is find a way to build much more consensus, on a far larger scale, instantly, without becoming hierarchical.  Inability to do this this is the only thing standing in the way of a bottom up crypto currency system from quickly building enough consensus to include the entire world.  Then we can finally simply ignore all the failed bureaucracies and hierarchies since we will no longer need them to build enough consensus to get anything done.

Building and measuring consensus is the only hard part.  Once you can do that, everything else is easy.  At least that is what we are attempting to do at Canonizer.com.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 03:36:47 pm by Brent.Allsop »

merockstar

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.

okay. so the first thing to raise funds for would be to pick a jurisdiction and commission a lawyer to write such a guide.

great.

step 1) get estimates from lawyers
step 2) see if the community is down
step 3) commission and publish book

I think the most restrictive jurisdiction would be new york.  This would be a good start, with a what is and what is not legal in the state of new york , or with someone that plans on not getting their house invaded by swat teams while at the same time still engaging in business with new york entities

okay. so we need to track down a new york lawyer or 4 who might be interested and see if we could get an estimate.

That would be a good first step.  It would be a good idea to leave the language completely open to interpretation.  Understand that in their sick world a guide may be different than a FAQ, or a map for users. 

Remember that the goal is to ease engagement of BTS goods and services while preventing individuals from being put in cages and or shot.  I would consider our primary duty to reduce the people put in cages and or shot, wherever possible.

I looked at a couple last night that had "crypto" in the search result but they both seem to also working for the banking industry.

also I think xeroc brings a good point to the table. should there be a group to pursue legal action against scammers who try to scam using the bitshares name?

Offline xeroc

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With 3i dissolving (right?) should we put together a BitShares foundation to try to protect trademarks and advocate for BitShares in similar ways that the Bitcoin foundation, or the GNOME foundation does?

Absolutely not. A cooperative would have major benefits without the flaws of a foundation. Foundations have to be non profits while cooperatives can profit. Foundations don't allow us to collectively own it while cooperatives would be owned by us.

The foundation model just doesn't work very well for Bitshares in my opinion and I favor a Bitshares Cooperative similar to the Cog Cooperative.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10468.0
I am in favor for luckybit's proposal ..

IMHO we should have an entity that can take legal actions against fraudsters that are using the BitShares brand

Offline puppies

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.

okay. so the first thing to raise funds for would be to pick a jurisdiction and commission a lawyer to write such a guide.

great.

step 1) get estimates from lawyers
step 2) see if the community is down
step 3) commission and publish book

I think the most restrictive jurisdiction would be new york.  This would be a good start, with a what is and what is not legal in the state of new york , or with someone that plans on not getting their house invaded by swat teams while at the same time still engaging in business with new york entities

okay. so we need to track down a new york lawyer or 4 who might be interested and see if we could get an estimate.

That would be a good first step.  It would be a good idea to leave the language completely open to interpretation.  Understand that in their sick world a guide may be different than a FAQ, or a map for users. 

Remember that the goal is to ease engagement of BTS goods and services while preventing individuals from being put in cages and or shot.  I would consider our primary duty to reduce the people put in cages and or shot, wherever possible.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

merockstar

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.

okay. so the first thing to raise funds for would be to pick a jurisdiction and commission a lawyer to write such a guide.

great.

step 1) get estimates from lawyers
step 2) see if the community is down
step 3) commission and publish book

I think the most restrictive jurisdiction would be new york.  This would be a good start, with a what is and what is not legal in the state of new york , or with someone that plans on not getting their house invaded by swat teams while at the same time still engaging in business with new york entities

okay. so we need to track down a new york lawyer or 4 who might be interested and see if we could get an estimate.

Offline luckybit

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With 3i dissolving (right?) should we put together a BitShares foundation to try to protect trademarks and advocate for BitShares in similar ways that the Bitcoin foundation, or the GNOME foundation does?

Absolutely not. A cooperative would have major benefits without the flaws of a foundation. Foundations have to be non profits while cooperatives can profit. Foundations don't allow us to collectively own it while cooperatives would be owned by us.

The foundation model just doesn't work very well for Bitshares in my opinion and I favor a Bitshares Cooperative similar to the Cog Cooperative.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10468.0
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Offline puppies

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.

okay. so the first thing to raise funds for would be to pick a jurisdiction and commission a lawyer to write such a guide.

great.

step 1) get estimates from lawyers
step 2) see if the community is down
step 3) commission and publish book

I think the most restrictive jurisdiction would be new york.  This would be a good start, with a what is and what is not legal in the state of new york , or with someone that plans on not getting their house invaded by swat teams while at the same time still engaging in business with new york entities
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merockstar

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Step 1)

Pick some lawyers who might be interested.

Any suggestions on a good way to go about that?

merockstar

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.

okay. so the first thing to raise funds for would be to pick a jurisdiction and commission a lawyer to write such a guide.

great.

step 1) get estimates from lawyers
step 2) see if the community is down
step 3) commission and publish book

Offline donkeypong

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I just know the Bitcoin Foundation has been a royal mess. That happens when convicted felons and con artists are given key roles. My early stance would be 'no foundation', keep it decentralized with the delegates (some of whom will wield enough power to make proposals). But if someone has a foolproof idea for a Foundation, then I could be convinced to support it.

Offline puppies

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I would like at least one more respected member of the forum to join with us in control of the funds.

I am not sure that we should focus on legal defense.  Ultimately our goal is to grow bitshares market cap.

I would love to see a lawyer written guide to accepting BitUSd for different jurisdictions.  I would also love to see legal defense for those that follow this advice and still fall afoul of their local thugscrum.  I think that by providing advice up front and defense in the back we could convince people to join our cause.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

merockstar

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Trademark may suck but if we're going to try to work with the legal system of different world governments then it's necessary that an organization exist that those governments can work with sort of as community representatives, no?

I have no intention of following the legal system of different world governments.  I plan on doing just enough to keep my local jack booted thugs from putting me in a cage, and or shooting me.  Beyond that I make no promises.


I can definitely respect that point of view.
I am however all for a foundation or organization or fund that will help people all over the world, do just enough to keep their local jackbooted thugs from throwing them in a cage and or shooting them.

I think I agree with that too. What should we call that foundation?

IMO more important questions are:
How do we fund it?
Who is responsible for the spending of those funds?  Multisig?
What legal counsel do we have in different jurisdictions to rely upon?
Are we able to provide simple pre-emptive legal counsel, or will this legal counsel be able to actually help individuals while they deal with legal issues?

Hmmm... perhaps on a case by case basis.
We collect community donations to use in instances where it's needed.
You and I puppies. We can do multisig, I'll hold one key you hold the other.
It could be a program to provide lawyers to people who end up needing them.
how about the later, since anyone needing pre-emptive legal counsel has plenty of planning time.

so that means we need to find an instance where an attorney can help promote crypto...

Offline puppies

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Trademark may suck but if we're going to try to work with the legal system of different world governments then it's necessary that an organization exist that those governments can work with sort of as community representatives, no?

I have no intention of following the legal system of different world governments.  I plan on doing just enough to keep my local jack booted thugs from putting me in a cage, and or shooting me.  Beyond that I make no promises.


I can definitely respect that point of view.
I am however all for a foundation or organization or fund that will help people all over the world, do just enough to keep their local jackbooted thugs from throwing them in a cage and or shooting them.

I think I agree with that too. What should we call that foundation?

IMO more important questions are:
How do we fund it?
Who is responsible for the spending of those funds?  Multisig?
What legal counsel do we have in different jurisdictions to rely upon?
Are we able to provide simple pre-emptive legal counsel, or will this legal counsel be able to actually help individuals while they deal with legal issues?
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