Author Topic: What's the point of keyhotee?  (Read 13076 times)

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Offline Pocket Sand

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I'm really excited with the ease of setup that keyhotee will offer while being able to locally decrypt data using the block chain. In terms of security, people were mentioning earlier about using the type of security the armory wallet uses but if keyhotee will allow third party addons, people could easily add 2-step authentication to provide almost impenetrable security to their wallet (something along the lines of something like digipass dynamic security)



Offline devilfish

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Oh and having thought about this over night I think keyhotee is fairly on target with what Invictus are trying to. BitShares are going to need a wallet so they might as well make a fully featured one.
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Offline devilfish

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Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
Was it really Macintosh that changed everything? If I think of computer I think of "C64", "MS-DOS" and "Windows". Even if Microsoft stole ideas - those were the mass-products that changed everything, in my opinion. Just like Linux (not Unix!) changed everything later, again - in another way.

Microsoft stole from Apple who stole from everyone (Xerox is one that comes to mind with the GUI development).
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Offline bitcool

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The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.

Don't you think it's very ambitious for a team of four, or there's more going on behind the scene?

https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/keyhotee/graphs/contributors

Offline Gekko

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Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
Was it really Macintosh that changed everything? If I think of computer I think of "C64", "MS-DOS" and "Windows". Even if Microsoft stole ideas - those were the mass-products that changed everything, in my opinion. Just like Linux (not Unix!) changed everything later, again - in another way.

To stay on topic: Let me say first that I don't like the name "Keyhotee". Maybe for native english speakers it makes sense in a way... in many other languages it's just like "what?", unlike "Google", "Yahoo" or even "Microsoft" or "Facebook". - But ok, the name shouldn't be the most important thing about it (even if it kind of is if we talk about mass-appeal).

If Keyhotee will be as easy and idiot-proof as WhatsApp, the camera-app on Android or iOS, or even Google, and it looks good - it could become big, because everybody can use it no matter how dumb.
If it is free, open and really secure - it gets the nerds and techies, too. Hopefully.

Another thing is that "the first thing I see" when I google Keyhotee is "some strange company" creating a "just another" product. First thought "another startup wanting to become Facebook. Good luck. Next!" ...
Where is Keyhotee on Wikipedia? It has to be shown that Keyhotee foremost is an "open idea" in community hands, against surveillance, maybe backed by company money but still alive if the company goes bankrupt, and there will be no ads in it, ever, and no "pro-version" to buy. And a clear to see reason why to choose a new, not even born yet, product against "all the others".

If with Keyhotee (damn hard to type, too ;-) ) you want to reach something that will be pre-installed on every new computer and smartphone, you most almost reach the impossible. It's not always the best system that "wins", you have to reach "that certain something" to make it successful. (See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war that VHS won!)

Offline bytemaster

I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/

Ahh..  My bad.  i didn't quite read in-depth about I2P.  Thank you for the correction.

The difference between Keyhotee and everything else:  Ease of Use by Design.

1) I2P is great for what it does, but the economics of the system are wrong.   
2) Keyhotee will form a Darknet automatically, 0 configuration from users required.
3) TOR suffers from relying on 'donation economics' which doesn't scale and thus poor performance.
4) Currently, most web content is hosted in a centralized manner.  A single company can take down the content.
5) PGP is too hard to use, not a good standard and provides poor security due to tendency to 'not use it' or user error.

Bottom line, computers existed prior to Apple, but the Macintosh changed everything.  Ease of use matters and is something that cryptography has not yet achieved.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline NineLives

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I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/

Ahh..  My bad.  i didn't quite read in-depth about I2P.  Thank you for the correction.
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Offline Gekko

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I2P is the same as any other central server based services.
It is not. I2P is decentralized. It is a "layer on top of the internet" where you can (or will be able to in the future) do everything you can do in the "normal" internet - but encrypted, anonymous, censorship resistant. You can use torrents, e-mail, websites and much more in I2P. For example: if you create a Website in I2P (called eepSite) this website is on the PC you create it on. If you switch off your PC, the website is down. If everybody (every "user") in I2P switches their PC off, the I2P network is dead. There are no "central servers" keeping anything alive. Every user is his own server (and client) and uses other users' I2P-PCs to transfer encrypted data between each other (through tunnels).
Drawbacks so far: it is slow(er). But that should change as more users become active and the software matures.
And you need to run a (java-based) client-software all the time to use it.

While I'm convinced about the ingenuity behind BitShares and DACs, I'm still not sure if Keyhotee is in fact like http://xkcd.com/927/






Offline bytemaster

Perhaps I'm missing the point however my understanding was that any PTS sent to a Keyhotee ID address remain the property of the sender. The idea being that they can't be withdrawn or traded elsewhere until Keyhotee launches.
In that way Invictus gets a strong initial following at least until the launch of Keyhotee and those who donate to Keyhotee ID still retain their PTS on the launch of Keyhotee.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is a donation to the development of Keyhotee. 
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Offline Number 1

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Perhaps I'm missing the point however my understanding was that any PTS sent to a Keyhotee ID address remain the property of the sender. The idea being that they can't be withdrawn or traded elsewhere until Keyhotee launches.
In that way Invictus gets a strong initial following at least until the launch of Keyhotee and those who donate to Keyhotee ID still retain their PTS on the launch of Keyhotee.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Offline bytemaster

Or maybe the browser will get into keyhotee. 


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Offline bitcool

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Quote
Also, I feel like, for Keyhotee to catch on, regardless of how nice it is, it's going to have to get into the browser (maybe not initially, but it has to happen eventually)
Pretty sure it will happen naturally if Keyhotee catch some fire.

Offline 8bit

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Ohhh god..  Come on dude, you know what I'm about to say:  Let me rephrase..

Tor is an open source company and servers are in different locations (proxies) meaning its NOT IN YOUR control.  Data is stored on them proxies (logs).  Meaning accessible with allot of push if needed.  Which is what I meant above.  Its still central because YOU do not have control!!!

Keyhotee is ON YOUR PC encrypted on a blockchain.  No one can access it but you.  Proxy somewhere vs your control?  Emmmm  which will I pick?

That is not what 'centralized' means, and Tor is not centralized. Tor is a network of over four thousand decentralized nodes operated by different people all over the world. The idea behind Tor is that logs won't matter because Tor pushes connections through multiple relays. An exit node will be able to tell what the last relay was in a connection, but can not trace the connection back further than that. In order to reveal someone's identity, you would have to compromise every node between the individual and the exit node. To my knowledge, Tor itself has never actually been compromised in practice. Techniques used to take identify Tor users (javascript attacks and personally identifiable information) are not specific to Tor, have nothing to do with Tor itself, and are just as applicable to something like Keyhotee.

Quote
There is no need to install 4 different apps to make your semi freedom function (Tor, Freenet, I2P, Bit wallet).

These are all applications which do (roughly) the same thing. I'm worried Keyhotee is this: http://xkcd.com/927/
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Offline NineLives

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Ohhh god..  Come on dude, you know what I'm about to say:  Let me rephrase..

Tor is an open source company and servers are in different locations (proxies) meaning its NOT IN YOUR control.  Data is stored on them proxies (logs).  Meaning accessible with allot of push if needed.  Which is what I meant above.  Its still central because YOU do not have control!!!

Keyhotee is ON YOUR PC encrypted on a blockchain.  No one can access it but you.  Proxy somewhere vs your control?  Emmmm  which will I pick?

There is no need to install 4 different apps to make your semi freedom function (Tor, Freenet, I2P, Bit wallet).

Again, that is only scratching the surface of the example we spoke of.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 10:19:59 pm by NineLives »
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Offline 8bit

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Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.

Tor can't stop the government watching how much money you spend?  Or Tor isn't going to stop any official taking your financial assets?

No, but bitcoin + mixers can...

Quote
Like I said, torrents is just ONE example and its just scratching the surface.  Tor, Freenet, I2P is the same as any other central server based services.  You really think Tor is going to deny the government access to its logs if needed?  There is NO VPN anonymous service that will truly stop high-end governments from gaining access to your day to day internet activities.

Remember, Keyhotee is on a blockchain.

Tor, Freenet, and I2P are not centralized. Tor is a decentralized network of proxies, Freenet is a decentralized hosting network, and I2P is a protocol for secure friend to friend communications.
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