Poll

Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?

Yes. BTS with 35% makes sense since to the added network effect.
87 (54.7%)
No. AGS/PTS which made PLAY possible in the first place are not honored sufficiently.
72 (45.3%)

Total Members Voted: 156

Voting closed: November 29, 2014, 05:29:35 PM

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Offline santaclause102

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Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« on: November 15, 2014, 05:29:35 PM »

Original post:

Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.

1. BTS holders 35%
The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched.
To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.

[Update] Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.

2. AGS holders 10%

3. PTS holders 10%
The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.

4. Product Crowdfunding 20%
The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.

5. Development and Marketing 15%
Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.

6. Reserved Funds 10%
Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

I do not consider this to be "fair".
The reasoning:
- ASG/PTS in BTS are only AGS before February 28th and the 7% from the merger increase the AGS/PTS share in PLAY from 10% to 12.5% only.
- The common sense assumption for AGS after Feb 28th donations was that those donators would get most of everything besides BTS. Now that is dumped for the bigger network effect BTS brings.
- The network effect of BTS holders would not be dramatically reduced if they get 20% instead of 35 %.
- AGS after Feb 28th contributed the most to the funding of the developement of PLAY.

Bytemaster's proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11140.msg148524#msg148524

Bring forward all your arguments :) Don't be afraid to speak up. A robust consensus is necessary to discuss it once and then let it rest so we can then all support PLAY.

Disclosure: I donated more to AGS after Feb 28th than before. I did not sell any BTSX/BTS.

Offline lakerta06

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 07:19:27 PM »
I think concept of fairness is irrelevant. This is an airdrop to a a community. Developer airdrops to whoever he/she wants and accepts whatever community reaction arises.

The question should be what is the best distribution for maximum growth in terms of network effect and market cap.
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sumantso

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 07:36:12 PM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 07:37:20 PM »
Quote
'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally
haha that was a good one!

Offline Riverhead

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 11:47:40 PM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.
Agreed. It can change a thousand times and not everyone will be happy. If it were up to me it'd just be pts/ags. Thankfully it's not :P

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Offline jcalfee1

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 11:55:09 PM »
I'm happy. I donated most of my stuff after February 28, I just see it as incentive to be more timely in my adoption of new technology.

Offline Agent86

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2014, 12:29:58 AM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.
+5%

Offline godzirra

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2014, 02:14:23 AM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.

Offline hpenvy

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2014, 02:32:39 AM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

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Offline liondani

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2014, 02:58:22 AM »


We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

lol



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Offline Riverhead

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2014, 03:29:24 AM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.
How can one unfairly give something away? We aren't entitled to anything.

If this sort of angry haggling is what any dev that wants to share drop to the community faces they likely won't. If I had a good idea for a DAC I'd do the 10% pts, maybe 10% AGS and spend the rest on dev and marketing talent.

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Offline godzirra

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2014, 04:43:47 AM »
Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.
How can one unfairly give something away? We aren't entitled to anything.

If this sort of angry haggling is what any dev that wants to share drop to the community faces they likely won't. If I had a good idea for a DAC I'd do the 10% pts, maybe 10% AGS and spend the rest on dev and marketing talent.

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Angelshares were used as a grant for funding the PLAY dac. There are millions of dollars that were donated at a very real risk to fund development. That kind of support should be valued just as highly as the network effect of BTS holders. BTS holders should not be getting 3 times the allocation in my opinion. The Pre Feb28 windfall was a huge gift. Why are the same people getting a larger share this time? It makes no sense! Not because of a contracted obligation but because this community should recognize those that gifted thousands of BTC to make PLAY possible. What part of that is so difficult to understand? If fairness doesn't interest you how about the basic principle of reciprocity?

The only argument I hear in opposition is once again to stop nagging and just be quiet. Which is an interesting argument. One that I will weigh when considering future support of this community.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 04:48:48 AM by godzirra »

Offline godzirra

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2014, 05:01:30 AM »
The idea that those who benefited from the 50/50 BTS distribution are the ones who should continually be rewarded with greater allocation of future DACs, is going to do much more harm than is currently realized.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2014, 05:16:11 AM »
I hear what you're saying. So drop pts/ags like the plan was from the start.

To me share dropping to BTS came out of nowhere. Developers are welcome to do it of course but it's painful.

If yet another promising DAC comes along will they be expected to drop to AGS, PTS, BTS, and PLAY?

Gonna get really confusing.

Lastly is it the community's opinion that you won't support any DAC that hasn't gifted the proper respectful amount?

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« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 05:31:12 AM by Riverhead »

Offline godzirra

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Re: Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2014, 05:38:44 AM »
Well thanks for at least listening to me gripe.

Really where does this 35% BTS allocation come from? And who are the people who feel like that's anywhere near a reasonable amount? I haven't heard a single reason why it should be so outsized? Other than personal gain I suppose. I have quite a bit of BTS as well, I just find this allocation to be completely ridiculous. I'm not trying to offend anyone, especially not Hackfisher, but if anything it should be weighted more to where you got your initial funding from. That point cannot be stressed enough.

Hackfisher please reward those people who invested in your project! BTS holders are not going to change much of anything based on you changing the allocation. It is completely unexpected that you would allocate so much to BTS.

 

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