Do you find the BitShares PLAY allocation just?

[Riverhead]

Not a PTS/AGS founder. So i dont worry about it. Im just saying people who vare about having PTS/AGS sharedropped on need to work together to make it so.

I think why that is going to be met with resistance is that people bought in when BM was just some kooky guy on Bitcoin Talk with some crazy ideas. The premise was a token that was a Proto Type, a template, of all future DACs. So it's understandable people get a bit bent out of shape about allocations (though it's getting a bit silly).

It's sort of like buying bitUSD because of the yield and then delegates asking what you've done lately to deserve it.

Anyway, that was the idea but things change. Some people are having a hard time letting it go. I won't name names

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[ticklebiscuit]

Not a PTS/AGS founder. So i dont worry about it. Im just saying people who vare about having PTS/AGS sharedropped on need to work together to make it so.

[Riverhead]

You have that right. It comes down to what do we consider "the community". Is it just this forum? Just true believers in DAC technology?  Or all of crypto?

I think share drops to other coins is great if the devs think that will get them the support they need.

Point being while I feel pts has a use as being a prepackaged collection of believers I don't think anyone owes it anything. All I can do is promote a token I feel solves the current issue.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

So it comes down to community and you have great potential. But are you guys really making it count, working together and using eachothers skills as building blocks to the land of EPIC hall of fame sharedrop-worthiness? or betting on magic to fly in rainbows out of Invictus asses and make it so?  Instead of complaining about who gets more, work to prove who deserves more.  Right now as I see it, a few are doing well...alone or in very small isolated groups.  But it is going to take much more than that...and your competition is not waiting for the founders to figure this out.

Fair enough. So what's your plan?

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[fuzzy]

You had me at magic flying rainbows.

[ticklebiscuit]

You have that right. It comes down to what do we consider "the community". Is it just this forum? Just true believers in DAC technology?  Or all of crypto?

I think share drops to other coins is great if the devs think that will get them the support they need.

Point being while I feel pts has a use as being a prepackaged collection of believers I don't think anyone owes it anything. All I can do is promote a token I feel solves the current issue.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

So it comes down to community and you have great potential. But are you guys really making it count, working together and using eachothers skills as building blocks to the land of EPIC hall of fame sharedrop-worthiness? or betting on magic to fly in rainbows out of Invictus asses and make it so?  Instead of complaining about who gets more, work to prove who deserves more.  Right now as I see it, a few are doing well...alone or in very small isolated groups.  But it is going to take much more than that...and your competition is not waiting for the founders to figure this out.

[Riverhead]

You have that right. It comes down to what do we consider "the community". Is it just this forum? Just true believers in DAC technology?  Or all of crypto?

I think share drops to other coins is great if the devs think that will get them the support they need.

Point being while I feel pts has a use as being a prepackaged collection of believers I don't think anyone owes it anything. All I can do is promote a token I feel solves the current issue.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[ticklebiscuit]

Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.

How can one unfairly give something away? We aren't entitled to anything.

If this sort of angry haggling is what any dev that wants to share drop to the community faces they likely won't. If I had a good idea for a DAC I'd do the 10% pts, maybe 10% AGS and spend the rest on dev and marketing talent.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Angelshares were used as a grant for funding the PLAY dac. There are millions of dollars that were donated at a very real risk to fund development. That kind of support should be valued just as highly as the network effect of BTS holders. BTS holders should not be getting 3 times the allocation in my opinion. The Pre Feb28 windfall was a huge gift. Why are the same people getting a larger share this time? It makes no sense! Not because of a contracted obligation but because this community should recognize those that gifted thousands of BTC to make PLAY possible. What part of that is so difficult to understand? If fairness doesn't interest you how about the basic principle of reciprocity?

The only argument I hear in opposition is once again to stop nagging and just be quiet. Which is an interesting argument. One that I will weigh when considering future support of this community.

What has the PTS/AGS community done that makes them deserve stake forever?  If they want to get sharedropped more, they need to unite and show why the PTS/AGS model deserves to remain.  Other than, of course, saying they made it possible.  Everyone else made it possible too by buying in. 

If you want sharedrops, work together as PTS/AGS and provide value above and beyond what everyone else does.  Work as a unit.  You have all had plenty of time to utilize each others skills to create something that would be truly EPIC and historically precedent-setting.  Something worthy of being sharedropped on for all eternity.

What have you done bit expect it without really showing you can create this precedent? Invictus has more than honored their end considering they are no longer invictus.  They have given you all more than 10% in every DAC they have made.

Now it is time to work for the respect of 3rd party devs.

Think of pts not as a coin but a simple share drop target people can buy and sell.

If someone thinks BTS is all that and a bag of chips? Great, balance your desire for a piece of future DACs with your belief in an existing one.

I always viewed PTS as a token that pays a dividend in the form of share drops. The devs in return get a community of folks chomping at the bit to test, discuss, host, evangelize, and generally do what everyone is doing now for BTS.

It was never about payback or respect for founders, etc. It is just a unique type of token that served a specific purpose. If a dev thought they had a killer idea they could buy cheap PTS and then promote their idea to build interest in a share drop and increase the price of PTS as people evaluated the DAC.

Or we can keep putting devs through the grinder while they negotiate percentages for weeks rather than working on the DAC.

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Im looking for specifics. What do PTS/AGS give developers that other communities (like, say, doge) dont give better? Im not doubting talent or capability. Just asking for examples of what the AGS/PTS community give that is unique.  If it is an understanding of DACs that is fast fading and will not be around long.

[godzirra]

Regardless of the whether the allocation changes or not, this issue has been divisive. Delulo, godzirra - you realise you are arguing over a 55% stake, while BM mentioned there is no need for the remaining 45% stake to be allotted elsewhere?

Instead of the infighting, unite and request Hackfisher for the following distribution - 50% non-vested BTS, 50% AGS+PTS, and paid delegates through dilution (basically asking for 15% extra for each group - no need to take away from one to give to another).

I've said what I wanted to say. This whole process pretty much tells me what I need to know.
Also could we get this posted in the General Discussion area. Just so the whole community can see it. It will be more representative.

[bobmaloney]

Regardless of the whether the allocation changes or not, this issue has been divisive. Delulo, godzirra - you realise you are arguing over a 55% stake, while BM mentioned there is no need for the remaining 45% stake to be allotted elsewhere?

Instead of the infighting, unite and request Hackfisher for the following distribution - 50% non-vested BTS, 50% AGS+PTS, and paid delegates through dilution (basically asking for 15% extra for each group - no need to take away from one to give to another).

 

Nailed it.

33/33/33

[sumantso]

Regardless of the whether the allocation changes or not, this issue has been divisive. Delulo, godzirra - you realise you are arguing over a 55% stake, while BM mentioned there is no need for the remaining 45% stake to be allotted elsewhere?

Instead of the infighting, unite and request Hackfisher for the following distribution - 50% non-vested BTS, 50% AGS+PTS, and paid delegates through dilution (basically asking for 15% extra for each group - no need to take away from one to give to another).

[Riverhead]

Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.

How can one unfairly give something away? We aren't entitled to anything.

If this sort of angry haggling is what any dev that wants to share drop to the community faces they likely won't. If I had a good idea for a DAC I'd do the 10% pts, maybe 10% AGS and spend the rest on dev and marketing talent.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Angelshares were used as a grant for funding the PLAY dac. There are millions of dollars that were donated at a very real risk to fund development. That kind of support should be valued just as highly as the network effect of BTS holders. BTS holders should not be getting 3 times the allocation in my opinion. The Pre Feb28 windfall was a huge gift. Why are the same people getting a larger share this time? It makes no sense! Not because of a contracted obligation but because this community should recognize those that gifted thousands of BTC to make PLAY possible. What part of that is so difficult to understand? If fairness doesn't interest you how about the basic principle of reciprocity?

The only argument I hear in opposition is once again to stop nagging and just be quiet. Which is an interesting argument. One that I will weigh when considering future support of this community.

What has the PTS/AGS community done that makes them deserve stake forever?  If they want to get sharedropped more, they need to unite and show why the PTS/AGS model deserves to remain.  Other than, of course, saying they made it possible.  Everyone else made it possible too by buying in. 

If you want sharedrops, work together as PTS/AGS and provide value above and beyond what everyone else does.  Work as a unit.  You have all had plenty of time to utilize each others skills to create something that would be truly EPIC and historically precedent-setting.  Something worthy of being sharedropped on for all eternity.

What have you done bit expect it without really showing you can create this precedent? Invictus has more than honored their end considering they are no longer invictus.  They have given you all more than 10% in every DAC they have made.

Now it is time to work for the respect of 3rd party devs.

Think of pts not as a coin but a simple share drop target people can buy and sell.

If someone thinks BTS is all that and a bag of chips? Great, balance your desire for a piece of future DACs with your belief in an existing one.

I always viewed PTS as a token that pays a dividend in the form of share drops. The devs in return get a community of folks chomping at the bit to test, discuss, host, evangelize, and generally do what everyone is doing now for BTS.

It was never about payback or respect for founders, etc. It is just a unique type of token that served a specific purpose. If a dev thought they had a killer idea they could buy cheap PTS and then promote their idea to build interest in a share drop and increase the price of PTS as people evaluated the DAC.

Or we can keep putting devs through the grinder while they negotiate percentages for weeks rather than working on the DAC.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[godzirra]

@luckybit

Well it would seem that it is your decision as Hackfisher has left it to a community vote. So I would assume you have voted No since you deem it unjust?

In all reality I will personally receive PLAY no matter what as I hold BTS PTS and AGS. But the lack of common sense in such clear matter makes me realize I don't think it will do that well anyways. I'd be happy to be wrong. Good luck with PLAY. At this point I have very little interest in it at all.

[ticklebiscuit]

Regardless of whether its 'fair' I hope there is no change now. For once I would like to see something NOT change. We seem to have taken the 'reimagine everything' motto a bit too literally.

That's an interesting argument. Let's not concern ourselves with what is fair. I for one will not be participating in another round of "Angel" investing coming from PLAY, if it ever needs one.

How can one unfairly give something away? We aren't entitled to anything.

If this sort of angry haggling is what any dev that wants to share drop to the community faces they likely won't. If I had a good idea for a DAC I'd do the 10% pts, maybe 10% AGS and spend the rest on dev and marketing talent.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Angelshares were used as a grant for funding the PLAY dac. There are millions of dollars that were donated at a very real risk to fund development. That kind of support should be valued just as highly as the network effect of BTS holders. BTS holders should not be getting 3 times the allocation in my opinion. The Pre Feb28 windfall was a huge gift. Why are the same people getting a larger share this time? It makes no sense! Not because of a contracted obligation but because this community should recognize those that gifted thousands of BTC to make PLAY possible. What part of that is so difficult to understand? If fairness doesn't interest you how about the basic principle of reciprocity?

The only argument I hear in opposition is once again to stop nagging and just be quiet. Which is an interesting argument. One that I will weigh when considering future support of this community.

What has the PTS/AGS community done that makes them deserve stake forever?  If they want to get sharedropped more, they need to unite and show why the PTS/AGS model deserves to remain.  Other than, of course, saying they made it possible.  Everyone else made it possible too by buying in. 

If you want sharedrops, work together as PTS/AGS and provide value above and beyond what everyone else does.  Work as a unit.  You have all had plenty of time to utilize each others skills to create something that would be truly EPIC and historically precedent-setting.  Something worthy of being sharedropped on for all eternity.

What have you done bit expect it without really showing you can create this precedent? Invictus has more than honored their end considering they are no longer invictus.  They have given you all more than 10% in every DAC they have made.

Now it is time to work for the respect of 3rd party devs. 

[luckybit]

Original post:

Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.

1. BTS holders 35%
The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched.
To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.

[Update] Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.

2. AGS holders 10%

3. PTS holders 10%
The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.

4. Product Crowdfunding 20%
The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.

5. Development and Marketing 15%
Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.

6. Reserved Funds 10%
Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

I do not consider this to be "fair".
The reasoning:
- ASG/PTS in BTS are only AGS before February 28th and the 7% from the merger increase the AGS/PTS share in PLAY from 10% to 12.5% only.
- The common sense assumption for AGS after Feb 28th donations was that those donators would get most of everything besides BTS. Now that is dumped for the bigger network effect BTS brings.
- The network effect of BTS holders would not be dramatically reduced if they get 20% instead of 35 %.
- AGS after Feb 28th contributed the most to the funding of the developement of PLAY.

Bytemaster's proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11140.msg148524#msg148524

Bring forward all your arguments Don't be afraid to speak up. A robust consensus is necessary to discuss it once and then let it rest so we can then all support PLAY.

Disclosure: I donated more to AGS after Feb 28th than before. I did not sell any BTSX/BTS.

Honestly I do not find it just but it's not really my decision. The developer Hackfisher has the right to determine the allocation and the social consensus says he only has to give a minimum of 10/10. Hackfisher has followed the social consensus so we can't really complain much.

Unless you think you can launch a competitor DAC then it's 10/10.

[godzirra]

This community has always been able to pivot and adapt to what is right. It's frustrating at times as well but that willingness to admit that the course needed to be altered is something I think is a strength not a weakness. I don't actually care about the allocation (as I have all types of Bitshares products) so much as I do that PLAY and Hackfisher seem unable or unwilling to admit a mistake and just correct it. This is troubling to me. I do not see this ending well.

I admit my mistake on that I didn't know that AGS(as a social contract) is no longer being merged to BTS any more, but I also want to admit there were mess on the forum that ideas can not clearly spread out here.

So I want this decision be carefully made, so people out here, QQ groups, Exchanges btc38 discussion, and others can also know this changes.

You want this decision to be carefully made? Give me one reason why the PLAY allocation is so completely different than MUSIC? There is very little in this decision that bears any resemblance to careful. It's totally arbitrary.