Author Topic: Upgrading bitcoin  (Read 13123 times)

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Offline Rune

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Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.
We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.

.. I think this is right, there are millions of people out there sick and tired of the current system and looking for something new. BitShares seems to me to be screaming for attention. We should use the power of persuasion by saying look at what our product can do because it really is better. It can sell itself.

just my 2 cents.
M
[/quote]

I agree with you. I ultimately wanted to do this because I really don't want to see bitcoin become irrelevant and I'd love to see it if it could last through the ages. But in the end, the better option is to support bitshares and simply never forget that bitcoin is our root, even if it ultimately becomes worthless compared to bitshares.

Offline donkeypong

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Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.
We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.


This idea came from a forum member, not from "BitShares". There were only a few folks interested in it.

Offline mike623317

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Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.
We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.
[/quote]

.. I think this is right, there are millions of people out there sick and tired of the current system and looking for something new. BitShares seems to me to be screaming for attention. We should use the power of persuasion by saying look at what our product can do because it really is better. It can sell itself.

just my 2 cents.
M

Offline fran2k

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I really like this kind of ideas. What I don't get its the intention to change other coins.

Here a really good job its being done with BTS, why we need to get into fixing other coins problems?

I think the market you be complex and diversified, and all this options must compete.
Witness: rmglab /// Buenos Aires BTS Meetup http://www.meetup.com/es-ES/BitSharesBA/ /// [old BTS 1.0 chain] Delegate bitshares-argentina (ex argentina-marketing-matt608) Thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15781.0.html

Offline xeroc

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Bitointalk and /r/ Bitcoin have a rough crowd. Kudos to you for trying this. Glad you are focusing on promoting BitShares for now.
Can confirm this!

It's a shame what they did with my thread here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hbiv0/charityfunds_help_me_reach_seansoutpost_fsf_and/

Offline donkeypong

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Bitointalk and /r/ Bitcoin have a rough crowd. Kudos to you for trying this. Glad you are focusing on promoting BitShares for now.

Offline Rune

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We have a new target now : we could upgrade sparkle once it's up ! It would give us some battlefield experience, and show the world that DPOS has anti-cancerous defensive measures :D

After trying very hard to convince the bitcoiners why upgrading to DPOS is a massive advantage, I realized that they simply will not accept it, no matter how many facts you throw at them. In that situation it's better to spend energy on marketing bitshares, and simply go for their top developers. Bitcoin, unfortunately, will become irrelevant. Also sparkle is great, it's the perfect way to introduce POW fanatics to the other massive advantage of DPOS (paid delegates) without violating their religious beliefs.

Offline inarizushi

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We have a new target now : we could upgrade sparkle once it's up ! It would give us some battlefield experience, and show the world that DPOS has anti-cancerous defensive measures :D
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Offline monsterer

Heh. Well. If it was that easy then no DPOS coin deserves to survive. Anyone who tries to pull it off will have my full support.

It's not 'easy', but it would be easier than trying to attack a coin with a higher CAP - intuitively, the difficulty of pulling off the buy-your-way-to-51% attack is proportional to the CAP of each coin.

I'm just saying it might be wise to drop this plan, for the sake of bitshares.
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Offline Rune

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If "attacking us" means they're going to pump the price then please go ahead and attack.

Really?

  • Pump
  • Elect evil delegates
  • Dump
  • Attack

Pretty much cost neutral because by the time anyone realises what's going on its too late.

Heh. Well. If it was that easy then no DPOS coin deserves to survive. Anyone who tries to pull it off will have my full support.

Offline monsterer

If "attacking us" means they're going to pump the price then please go ahead and attack.

Really?

  • Pump
  • Elect evil delegates
  • Dump
  • Attack

Pretty much cost neutral because by the time anyone realises what's going on its too late.
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
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Offline Rune

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How exactly do you envision this "counter attack" happening? They're going to bribe all stakeholders to only vote for delegates who don't create blocks?

Same way as you'd do it to them. Use buying power to buy a controlling voting stake - last I heard that was something like 13% of market cap. Then you just vote in a bunch of bad delegates and 'whoops wheres your blockchain'.

If "attacking us" means they're going to pump the price then please go ahead and attack.

Offline fuzzy

How exactly do you envision this "counter attack" happening? They're going to bribe all stakeholders to only vote for delegates who don't create blocks?

Same way as you'd do it to them. Use buying power to buy a controlling voting stake - last I heard that was something like 13% of market cap. Then you just vote in a bunch of bad delegates and 'whoops wheres your blockchain'.

 We need delegate slates and trusted people to wield them...and some form of difficult to cheat system for allowing the bitshares community to transparently vet the delegates on said slates...

But how???.....hmmmmm......  (this is being sarcastic in case noone noticed ;) since it is right under our noses)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline monsterer

How exactly do you envision this "counter attack" happening? They're going to bribe all stakeholders to only vote for delegates who don't create blocks?

Same way as you'd do it to them. Use buying power to buy a controlling voting stake - last I heard that was something like 13% of market cap. Then you just vote in a bunch of bad delegates and 'whoops wheres your blockchain'.
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
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Offline fuzzy

Hi fuzzy,
I know eagle eye opinions and this are opinions of any mainstream business managers which sees everything as a war. That is why I was so happy to find bytemaster who had different approach to life and business. I am not knowledgable enough to understand every detail that Rune is talking about, but I keep hearing word like attack which goes against my life philosophy of cooperation and help. I thought that we are in this community trying to build new way of doing business and not follow old way of hostile acquisitions. Have you ever wondered why bytemaster is not commenting. My guess is that he knows in time we will get better and overtake our competitors fair and square without resorting to use of force. If our technology is better than bitcoin than let's people choose it without being forced to do it.
Aloha fuzzy  :)

I am fast starting to realize that you can't change the nature of business with a technology.  That takes a fundamental change in human nature--and that ain't happening anytime soon. 

Now with that said, the word attack is probably a bit strong.  It would be better to call it applying leverage to force an upgrade to their currently inadequate and unfair system---a bitcoin revolution.  But without a huge marketing push to call it that on many media channels, you essentially will see it framed as an attack by most of the bitcoin community.  With that, I agree. 

I hate to be a cynic, but let's face it...we have worked completely out in the open for the past year and largely have nothing to show for it but a group of people over at Ethereum who plan on essentially forking DPOS and acting like it was their creation...(not like they are going to put a "powered by BitShares" symbol by their logo, right?). NXT arguably used a great deal of Dan's theories to beat us to the punch with their tech (though they missed the scalability issues because Dan didn't talk about that stuff until after theirs had come out).  All around you, you will see us being attacked. 

I am not sure what to say...other than we have to find ways to proactively defend ourselves and this awesome protocol. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D