Upgrading bitcoin

[Rune]

I agree that beginning with a scrypt coin to test the economics is the best strategy. It needs to be presented in a way that is clearly profitable to the altcoin: after their coins have migrated to the main chain the next target is bitcoin; if the strategy is succesful against any POW altcoin, it will be successful against bitcoin.

There is no way to sugar coat this. This will be seen as an attack, and will likely be met with a counter attack and then it's just a case of bigger market cap wins. Last time I checked, litecoin had a bigger cap than bitshares.

Feeling lucky?

How exactly do you envision this "counter attack" happening? They're going to bribe all stakeholders to only vote for delegates who don't create blocks?

Anyway, when it comes to monetary security there is really nothing wrong with attacking and upgrading vulnerable systems. Consider it as inevitable survival of the fittest, if you want. Having the majority of the cryptocurrency market cap relying on insecure and easily attackable POW algorithms means there is massive systemic risk in the entire industry, this is the moral case FOR attacking everything that can be attacked. If people didn't want to be attacked/upgraded, they shouldn't have bought a POW coin.

[vegolino]

Hi fuzzy,
I know eagle eye opinions and this are opinions of any mainstream business managers which sees everything as a war. That is why I was so happy to find bytemaster who had different approach to life and business. I am not knowledgable enough to understand every detail that Rune is talking about, but I keep hearing word like attack which goes against my life philosophy of cooperation and help. I thought that we are in this community trying to build new way of doing business and not follow old way of hostile acquisitions. Have you ever wondered why bytemaster is not commenting. My guess is that he knows in time we will get better and overtake our competitors fair and square without resorting to use of force. If our technology is better than bitcoin than let's people choose it without being forced to do it.
Aloha fuzzy 

[fuzzy]

litecoin and dogecoin (merge-mined) are the perfect target.

Attacking dogecoin almost seems like an even worse idea.  Who would want to attack such a nice community?  All they care about is tipping each other and making fun pictures of dogs.


Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.

We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.

  Let us not be the one to initiate use of force. I thought that was what most of us agreed upon, but it looks like I was wrong.

Overall, this sounds great.  However, on the other hand eagleeye is right when he says business is warfare--well at least he is partially right.  Think of Ripple, for instance, and how somehow dropping a huge chunk of their shares on the market when we had reached the #3 position somehow quadrupled their marketcap, bashing us in the face and pushing us down to #4...that was 50+ million marketcap ago.  :/

This was seen as an attack by our community (and rightly so) but it didn't do anything to hurt Ripple at all (though admittedly that is because BTS has no real voice outside the small community wherein we exist).

There is a case to be made for these types of attempts.  I simply hope we do not use BTS to do it.  I would far prefer an altchain be built up, advertised and use this method to "climb the ladder" so-to-speak.  This way at the very worst it is not seen as BTS doing it, and at the very best, it works and this method becomes a very good way to assimilate other coins into DPOS-upgraded chains (which will not hurt users at all....but rather improve their experience significantly and free them from the control of mining cartels).

[vegolino]

litecoin and dogecoin (merge-mined) are the perfect target.

Attacking dogecoin almost seems like an even worse idea.  Who would want to attack such a nice community?  All they care about is tipping each other and making fun pictures of dogs.


Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.

We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.

  Let us not be the one to initiate use of force. I thought that was what most of us agreed upon, but it looks like I was wrong.

[monsterer]

I agree that beginning with a scrypt coin to test the economics is the best strategy. It needs to be presented in a way that is clearly profitable to the altcoin: after their coins have migrated to the main chain the next target is bitcoin; if the strategy is succesful against any POW altcoin, it will be successful against bitcoin.

There is no way to sugar coat this. This will be seen as an attack, and will likely be met with a counter attack and then it's just a case of bigger market cap wins. Last time I checked, litecoin had a bigger cap than bitshares.

Feeling lucky?

[Rune]

I agree that beginning with a scrypt coin to test the economics is the best strategy. It needs to be presented in a way that is clearly profitable to the altcoin: after their coins have migrated to the main chain the next target is bitcoin; if the strategy is succesful against any POW altcoin, it will be successful against bitcoin.

[bitsnowden]

You might be able to swing it as a environmental crusade.

Rune must not be allowed to save the environment.

We must stop him!

[fuzzy]

A video using these song lyrics but modified slightly could be used as a chat up line for mating with dogecoin: (marketing)

http://rock.genius.com/Bloodhound-gang-the-bad-touch-lyrics/

"You and me doge aint nothing but mammle-coins
so lets do it like the do it like they do on the discovery channel, coins"

(plus it strengthens the brand message of doge as it would strengthen the image of being connected to an animal. :p)

Well then tell rune he should do it.

[matt608]

A video using these song lyrics but modified slightly could be used as a chat up line for mating with dogecoin: (marketing)

http://rock.genius.com/Bloodhound-gang-the-bad-touch-lyrics/

"You and me doge aint nothing but mammle-coins
so lets do it like the do it like they do on the discovery channel, coins"

(plus it strengthens the brand message of doge as it would strengthen the image of being connected to an animal. :p)

[fuzzy]

Let's not get into name calling.  I do agree with the need for bold moves though.  Which we as a community seem to be afraid to make.

[ticklebiscuit]

litecoin and dogecoin (merge-mined) are the perfect target.

Attacking dogecoin almost seems like an even worse idea.  Who would want to attack such a nice community?  All they care about is tipping each other and making fun pictures of dogs.


Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.

We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.

It isnt an attack directly on dogecoin...it is an attack on the infrastructure they use to make mining seem profitable.  It is simple.  At the same time you attack litecoin, sharedrop dogeshares on the doge community to "protect" them.

If we are pussies We lose this game. Not sure if you guys recognize this yet but you will.

[Ander]

Can't we attack our own pow coin: PTS?

We already did that.

[xeroc]

Can't we attack our own pow coin: PTS?

[Ander]

litecoin and dogecoin (merge-mined) are the perfect target.

Attacking dogecoin almost seems like an even worse idea.  Who would want to attack such a nice community?  All they care about is tipping each other and making fun pictures of dogs.


Seriously, Bitshares should not be in the business of attacking other coins.  Even if it works.

We can win due to a superior product, there is no need to be the bad guys and launch attacks on other coins networks.

[donkeypong]

Attacking litecoin first is significantly easier to do given the costs are smaller.  They will also have a harder time fighting it due to fewer resources.  Not a lot of VC money to help back a defense.  I do not know the politics behind litecoin though so I might be wrong.  ( to whoever had this idea)

If you do decide to do it, don't tie it into bitshares.  Please.  Tell people you have chosen dpos from bitshares as the new coin basis but make it clear you only do that because DPOS is the best. 

You'll need a small mining pool or create your own because no big pool is going to risk their position.

I agree that Litecoin and scrypts might be a cheaper place to start. How much would it cost to mount this attack?