Imagine

[unimercio]

Friends don't let friends make music videos

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRU3pWkiG3k

Good god man, Will ! please... Leave to Caesar !!!

Seriously, with the right on screen talent  bm's first entree could be a success, just be careful with the casting. Protect the brand.

[unimercio]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

Evolvo, if you can do a song like that for BitShares, then Dan won't be the only one sending some BTS or BitUSD your way. The lyrics could frame the vision or they could help explain it or both.

What I'm envisioning is something that communicates the advantages of Bitshares from a technological, financial, and macro-economic perspective while underpinning that with the philosophical foundation upon which it rests.  I hope that's something that Bytemaster and the community can get behind.

Ditto 

[unimercio]

I do have an inner conflict about using this song as it "sacred" and I would be pissed off with any company that 'tampered' with it for financial gain.  It could create a very negative knee-jerk response in anger at a company defacing a masterpiece and I have that feeling myself too, so I would prefer a different song be used!  This could stir up a lot of negativity towards bitshares, what would I tell my friends lol?  This is the kind of thing I would complain to them about, a company using dead artists gift to the world for profit.  Is the song choice open for discussion?  I would go for something more catchy and trivial.  Maybe it being controversial and highly emotive could make it very effective.  I don't know.  Still its a very risky play.

If I have no choice in the matter and this song will be used anyway, I at least want it done effectively so here is my contribution:

Imagine

The song is very sombre if you listen to the original, if it's going to be used for marketing a remix should be used.  I found this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes.  Perhaps the creator could be paid for his permission for us to use it.  It conveniently has no lyrics so they could simply be sung over the top. 

These lyrics are be sung melodramatically, emotionally and clearly by an individual man with a small backing choir of girls or a lone very strong black female singer giving humorously dramatic and sexy echoes of the verses as they are sung (echoes are written in brackets)

Try listening though it with the remix starting at 1 minute 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes

In Verse 1 theres a pause between the the main lyric and the echo, with the next line starting just as the echo ends.  In verse two the echoes start immediately or overlapping with the main lyric line.

Verse 1:

Imagine there's free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here for everyone --pause--  (for everyone)
Nobody is left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning you interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Verse 2:

Imagine there's no borders (imagine theres no borders)
no international fees, (no international fees no no)
hidden bills are sent to the hills (sent too the hills yeah)
And tax payers funds aren't used (yes we're actually solvent) (spoken not sung)
Imagine there's no borders
We have no remittance fees!

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Perhaps there could be images of "give peace a chance" shown at the start of the video and end with "Give Bitshares a Chance"  Thought I'd add that idea in there.

Right on... 
With bm's lyrical genius, your musical talent and my good looks we have the makings of a one hit wonder.
 

[unimercio]

BM has given up coding and now composing songs while walking up mountain trails.

We are all doomed!! Sell everything!!

Lol lol indeed doomed !!!!

Hey,  FUD packer !!! Don't be a hater man.

BM has earned enough street credits here to drunk text all f&@!ng weekend. All work and no play makes Johnny.... you know the rest.

A little yin will only make his yang that much, mo better. His code a little sweeter, our wallets a little greener.

Give the kid a little leg room.

 

[gamey]

Weird... in the frenzy of my last nights posting and the forum software playing ticks on me, my response to Emperical got lost...

In short, do you believe that the crime in GB is less than in your home country because the Brits have 50x better penalties or better law enforcement or better police? Or just because the criminals are 50x less likely to commit crimes?


My answer is simple -  there are 50 better ways to make a living in GB, so the crime is about 50x less...

And doubling the # of persons, the money spent on crime prevention, and doubling the penalties in any of those 2 will do nothing to  the real crime level.

All of those are a factor. Better law enforcement is the key though. 
You are either harshly deterred by the likelihood of getting caught & the punishment, be it from law or violence from community justice. (Given the choice between community violence or shunning, few would choose the violence, hence the communities free market solution to deterring crime is violence  ) Where deterrents are ineffective, good law enforcement can at least remove people from society.  As I mentioned though even the best legal system is not without many terrible faults.

Only people sheltered by a semi-functioning first world legal system and a poor understanding of human psychology tend to believe in far more idealistic alternatives. I think the alternatives sound wonderful though, I encourage pursuit of them whether through blockchain technology or other methods, any ways of creating respectful harmonious societies that require less threats of force or violence. Just don't expect me or my loved ones to live in them till the concepts are fairly well proven in practice.

Edit: My current framework revolves around maximum individual freedom, whilst protecting people from violence, rape & serious crime. I also want to protect 'alleged' criminals from violence too.
My belief is any form of psychological punishment is both an insufficient psychological deterrent for violent crime and insufficient psychological punishment/justice from the POV of the victim and their loved ones that are affected by it, at this current stage of human evolution. Many rapists, murderers and people who enjoy violence are repeat offenders and so society is protected if they are removed. So I am in favour of a some legal system to deal with this issues and have yet to see something I consider a viable alternative.

Very well said and there is far more truth in this than most posts with an ideological bent.  Criminals drift around all the time.  Shunning them only works within localized communities and only when they're not a serious threat to others.  You can shun a thief all day, but that won't keep him from stealing your property... and it gets worse.  I actually believe in violence has to be part of any solution without a state.

[eagleeye]

 

[BTSdac]

somdbody can create a assert own to own the song ,

[roadscape]

Imagine there's no bitshares
its easy if you try
no money for us
above us only sky
imagine all the people
working without pay

you-hoo-oooh ooo

imagine there's no sovereign
it isn't hard to do
nothing to kill or die for
nothing for you to do
imagine all the people
living life in peace

you may say we are dreamers
but were not the only ones
bitcoin and doge doggies will join us
bitshares crypto will be the one

imagine your possessions
to keep because you can
no greed or hunger
you feed your fellow man
imagine all the bitshares
sharing all the world

you hoo ooh ooo

you may say Dan's a dreamer
but he's not the only one
I hope someday you will join him
but for now you should code for fun

.

[BTS007]

http://
WELL！

[fuzzy]

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   

You certainly have my support in striving for these goals, and I'll remember you said the text I highlighted.

I don't know who / what sources you have studied to arrive here with your non-statist perspective, but I can "imagine" contributors like Stefan Molyneux and Larken Rose to name just a two.

When I see threads like this I feel like a 4 year old trying to relate how alien beings just landed in the backyard to his grand dad. So much must be understood about human behavior, psychopathy, sociology and history to paint a comprehensive picture about why the concept of authority is so powerful yet so terrible.

I'm not talking about authority as in expertise. That is earned, it has merit and that is what has value. Real experts have "authority" not b/c someone says they do but rather b/c they have results to show they are experts. Labels people or institutions associate with someone are just claims which are often hollow and without substance to back them up.

Authority is a good example of a word whose use has been manipulated and twisted, blurring the distinction between authority which is arbitrary, appointed and a symbol of power and control to that which deserves respect because of work performed or practical knowledge attained through experience or intrinsic abilities.

Authority is a religion and it is belief and trust in it that is the cause of more death than ANY OTHER FACTOR. "I was just following orders". Look up the Milgram experiment and then tell me you think authority is rational. How does such a value become so ingrained in the human psyche that they will sacrifice their own self interests, ignore their own values and beliefs to defer to those of "some authority"?

The fundamental reason is b/c we're trained that way by our parents which is further reinforced by society and societies' institutions. We are no longer taught how to think or how to ask questions to ascertain truth.

Yes...the milgram experiment is what acares me about the world we live in.  The principles there are precisely the reason  why I personalky value open forum style hangouts over pundits interviewing devs in crypto.

[Geneko]

We are going for mainstream (next year)... but in the short term we need to find more "true believers" who are in this for the vision and not just the service.

Than I suggest song with better message:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OGd4gplxQM

 

[Riverhead]

Early adoption is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

 

[mf-tzo]

I had some drinks so my artistic feelings came out today so here it goes...

(starting with rethum from Hey you Pink Floyd):

Hey you...Out there in the system,
getting lonely,
getting broke will you see it?
Hey you...
Standing at the edge with no money on your account will you see it??
Hey Youuuu.... please wake up and see the liiight...
DON'T GIVE IN WITHOUT A FIGHT!!

......

(Continuing with Comfortably numb rethum)

WAKE UP WAKE UP...Bit assets are out there...
Come on Now I hear you are feeling down
I can ease your pain, get you on your feet again
Relax relax I need some information first,
Just the basic facts, can you teach me about Bitshares? 

.......

(And then put imagine rethum...)
Bitshares have no limit…
Its easy if you try….
No corruption and frauds,
Above us only freedom
Imagine transferring easily money
Aaaaacross the Net….
Ahah, aahh
Please re – imagine…
It isn’t hard to do…
Bitshares to free you all…and no need for banks too…
Please re- imagine…
Mooooving funds for freeeee….
Yoohoo, oohhhh
You may say Bitshares is a dream…
But this is not the case…
I hope someday you ‘ll realize it
AND THE WORLD WILL LIVE AS ONE!!

[Stan]

Remember the TED video... we are still small...  if we can win over the 10% of the 3% that voted for Ron Paul we will have a huge user base.   Bitcoin was born on the backs of these users and has gone astray.   If we can recover and convert the original Bitcoin believers then they can do for us what they did for Bitcoin.   

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   As long as we are careful to separate the goal from the means we can gain support from everyone.

I was under the impression that we were going after a more mainstream audience? I must have missed the thread where this plan changed.
I'm fine with focusing on a libertarian audience and I guess having a politically charged "leader" works in that case. Just keep in mind that if we were to go after a mainstream audience it would hurt us (unless going after a mainstream audience is out the window?).

P.S. to anyone who thinks I'm talking about the song, I'm not. The song is fine. I'm talking about BM's political comments that don't directly have to do with BTS.

This is one of many coming efforts to reach out to attract "early adopters", demographic-by-demographic, while we continue to pursue the main stream on the simple merits. 

Each demographic has its own reasons to like BitShares.  We want to articulate those reasons in ways with which groups of people can identify easily.

Early adoption is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

[evolvo]

You can't talk about the "how" without explaining conceptually at least what the advantages are...these are technological AND economic advantages.  To be honest I don't fully understand how the technology works (coding, etc..)..I simply understand the concepts and how they relate to the larger ideals of freedom, economics, etc..

This is an idealist vision, but it also has a practical side. In aiming for a utopian vision, I think it's perfectly okay to highlight what needs to change for us to get there. BitShares enables many of those changes. I'm upset my bank charges me high fees. Why does it need to take days to send money to someone? Now they got hacked and everyone's social security numbers were stolen. Makes me want to tear up my credit cards and live free. In a good way. The anger is part of breaking free and declaring independence, releasing from that system and embracing a better future.

exactly

[donkeypong]

You can't talk about the "how" without explaining conceptually at least what the advantages are...these are technological AND economic advantages.  To be honest I don't fully understand how the technology works (coding, etc..)..I simply understand the concepts and how they relate to the larger ideals of freedom, economics, etc..

This is an idealist vision, but it also has a practical side. In aiming for a utopian vision, I think it's perfectly okay to highlight what needs to change for us to get there. BitShares enables many of those changes. I'm upset my bank charges me high fees. Why does it need to take days to send money to someone? Now they got hacked and everyone's social security numbers were stolen. Makes me want to tear up my credit cards and live free. In a good way. The anger is part of breaking free and declaring independence, releasing from that system and embracing a better future.

[matt608]

I'm not talking about authority as in expertise. That is earned, it has merit and that is what has value. Real experts have "authority" not b/c someone says they do but rather b/c they have results to show they are experts. Labels people or institutions associate with someone are just claims which are often hollow and without substance to back them up.

Authority is a religion and it is belief and trust in it that is the cause of more death than ANY OTHER FACTOR.

 

Slaying one's pantheon of imaginary authorities is a long, maybe lifelong, process of liberation.

[Empirical1.1]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

Evolvo, if you can do a song like that for BitShares, then Dan won't be the only one sending some BTS or BitUSD your way. The lyrics could frame the vision or they could help explain it or both.

What I'm envisioning is something that communicates the advantages of Bitshares from a technological, financial, and macro-economic perspective while underpinning that with the philosophical foundation upon which it rests.  I hope that's something that Bytemaster and the community can get behind.

I totally get your angle. You're 'welcome to the blockchain' is pretty on the money.  With a good video edit on top of that & a Ron Paul, Snowden, Crypto specific soundbite thrown in inbetween it would be pretty sick. A great balance of the goal and the basics of what it is. I could see something with maybe +15% on the philosophy getting the 18-36 Libertarian demographic in the bag.

They're looking for a +90% on the vision & philosophy angle here, don't know if that's your thing.
Could work very well, bit trickier to pull off though.

[Thom]

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   

You certainly have my support in striving for these goals, and I'll remember you said the text I highlighted.

I don't know who / what sources you have studied to arrive here with your non-statist perspective, but I can "imagine" contributors like Stefan Molyneux and Larken Rose to name just a two.

When I see threads like this I feel like a 4 year old trying to relate how alien beings just landed in the backyard to his grand dad. So much must be understood about human behavior, psychopathy, sociology and history to paint a comprehensive picture about why the concept of authority is so powerful yet so terrible.

I'm not talking about authority as in expertise. That is earned, it has merit and that is what has value. Real experts have "authority" not b/c someone says they do but rather b/c they have results to show they are experts. Labels people or institutions associate with someone are just claims which are often hollow and without substance to back them up.

Authority is a good example of a word whose use has been manipulated and twisted, blurring the distinction between authority which is arbitrary, appointed and a symbol of power and control to that which deserves respect because of work performed or practical knowledge attained through experience or intrinsic abilities.

Authority is a religion and it is belief and trust in it that is the cause of more death than ANY OTHER FACTOR. "I was just following orders". Look up the Milgram experiment and then tell me you think authority is rational. How does such a value become so ingrained in the human psyche that they will sacrifice their own self interests, ignore their own values and beliefs to defer to those of "some authority"?

The fundamental reason is b/c we're trained that way by our parents which is further reinforced by society and societies' institutions. We are no longer taught how to think or how to ask questions to ascertain truth.

[Riverhead]

Agreed. When PoW was new and impressive no one had even considered DPoS. What will come after DPoS shouldn't antiquate the song.

[bytemaster]

Remember the TED video... we are still small...  if we can win over the 10% of the 3% that voted for Ron Paul we will have a huge user base.   Bitcoin was born on the backs of these users and has gone astray.   If we can recover and convert the original Bitcoin believers then they can do for us what they did for Bitcoin.   

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   As long as we are careful to separate the goal from the means we can gain support from everyone.

I was under the impression that we were going after a more mainstream audience? I must have missed the thread where this plan changed.
I'm fine with focusing on a libertarian audience and I guess having a politically charged "leader" works in that case. Just keep in mind that if we were to go after a mainstream audience it would hurt us (unless going after a mainstream audience is out the window?).

P.S. to anyone who thinks I'm talking about the song, I'm not. The song is fine. I'm talking about BM's political comments that don't directly have to do with BTS.

We are going for mainstream (next year)... but in the short term we need to find more "true believers" who are in this for the vision and not just the service.

[Mysto]

Remember the TED video... we are still small...  if we can win over the 10% of the 3% that voted for Ron Paul we will have a huge user base.   Bitcoin was born on the backs of these users and has gone astray.   If we can recover and convert the original Bitcoin believers then they can do for us what they did for Bitcoin.   

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   As long as we are careful to separate the goal from the means we can gain support from everyone.

I was under the impression that we were going after a more mainstream audience? I must have missed the thread where this plan changed.
I'm fine with focusing on a libertarian audience and I guess having a politically charged "leader" works in that case. Just keep in mind that if we were to go after a mainstream audience it would hurt us (unless going after a mainstream audience is out the window?).

P.S. to anyone who thinks I'm talking about the song, I'm not. The song is fine. I'm talking about BM's political comments that don't directly have to do with BTS.

[evolvo]

You can't talk about the "how" without explaining conceptually at least what the advantages are...these are technological AND economic advantages.  To be honest I don't fully understand how the technology works (coding, etc..)..I simply understand the concepts and how they relate to the larger ideals of freedom, economics, etc..

[evolvo]

Songs should communicate vision and emotion, no technical details. 
Just promote our vision of what the world looks like if everyone used bitshares, which Dan outlined in this thread.

Leave the technical details to a link that someone follows if they like the song.

I didn't mean that I would get into how the technology works...haha...I simply meant that it has a technological advantage over...for example the existing banking system, bitcoin transactions, proof of work, etc...those are technological innovations that can be described in concept without getting into the technical stuff.....that would be extremely boring...hahaha

[Ander]

Songs should communicate vision and emotion, no technical details. 
Just promote our vision of what the world looks like if everyone used bitshares, which Dan outlined in this thread.

Leave the technical details to a link that someone follows if they like the song.

[bytemaster]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

Evolvo, if you can do a song like that for BitShares, then Dan won't be the only one sending some BTS or BitUSD your way. The lyrics could frame the vision or they could help explain it or both.

What I'm envisioning is something that communicates the advantages of Bitshares from a technological, financial, and macro-economic perspective while underpinning that with the philosophical foundation upon which it rests.  I hope that's something that Bytemaster and the community can get behind.

I am envisioning something that ignores any and all implementation details of BitShares and focuses on the WHY and not the HOW.    I want people to know what I (we) stand for and then imagine what the world would look like once BitShares is mature.

Technology in a song is less inspiring.

[evolvo]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

Evolvo, if you can do a song like that for BitShares, then Dan won't be the only one sending some BTS or BitUSD your way. The lyrics could frame the vision or they could help explain it or both.

What I'm envisioning is something that communicates the advantages of Bitshares from a technological, financial, and macro-economic perspective while underpinning that with the philosophical foundation upon which it rests.  I hope that's something that Bytemaster and the community can get behind. 

[Ander]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

I think most of us here share Bytemaster's vision.

[evolvo]

Then I will speak with the producer today and see what we can come up with. 

[carpet ride]

Like the idea. I would submit an entry to the bounty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[donkeypong]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.

Evolvo, if you can do a song like that for BitShares, then Dan won't be the only one sending some BTS or BitUSD your way. The lyrics could frame the vision or they could help explain it or both.

[bytemaster]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

Yes... actually it will be "favored by me" because it should represent my vision... but I will highly factor in community opinion.   

[evolvo]

If this is something the community really wants...I can get together with the same producer that I worked with on the Welcome To The Blockchain song and we can create something original for Bitshares....am I to understand that there will be a minimum 500 BitUSD reward if it is favored by the community?

[evolvo]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

Plus five

Lets do it

Using who's lyrics? 

Using my own lyrics, music, and melodies of course

[Method-X]

The geek in me is really looking forward to this song.

[hpenvy]

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"
Modify message

I think we should have a competition for the best song lyrics.   We should really do this one right.

$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best lyrics.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best rendition.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best video to go with the rendition.

Some comments....  we want people to imagine all the freedom we can have by working together outside the existing system.  Merchants, Traders, Individuals, working together, cooperating.

Imagine a community
Imagine a cooperative
Imagine a company
Imagine a country
Imagine a currency
Imagine them all as one!

Would this be something we'd want to push in our social media? We've been talking about doing a major push when 0.4.5 is released, this could be a great motivator for those that might have left our daily orbit to come back home.

Yes... I think having a huge bounty that is marketed would be a great way to draw attention to what we are doing and what we stand for.    If we are to do this then I need to write up a more through vision to help inspire people to understand.

You could cross-market this with PeerTracks. Best song winner gets to have the first artist coin asset, etc.

B-I-N-G-O.   

[donkeypong]

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"
Modify message

I think we should have a competition for the best song lyrics.   We should really do this one right.

$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best lyrics.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best rendition.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best video to go with the rendition.

Some comments....  we want people to imagine all the freedom we can have by working together outside the existing system.  Merchants, Traders, Individuals, working together, cooperating.

Imagine a community
Imagine a cooperative
Imagine a company
Imagine a country
Imagine a currency
Imagine them all as one!

Would this be something we'd want to push in our social media? We've been talking about doing a major push when 0.4.5 is released, this could be a great motivator for those that might have left our daily orbit to come back home.

Yes... I think having a huge bounty that is marketed would be a great way to draw attention to what we are doing and what we stand for.    If we are to do this then I need to write up a more through vision to help inspire people to understand.

You could cross-market this with PeerTracks. Best song winner gets to have the first artist coin asset, etc.

[hpenvy]

I support this 100%.  We have almost 200 posts and 16 people online in the marketing forum that MeTHoDx created to launch initiatives, this would be PERFECT to help support the Welcome Home initiative.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11530.0

[bytemaster]

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"
Modify message

I think we should have a competition for the best song lyrics.   We should really do this one right.

$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best lyrics.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best rendition.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best video to go with the rendition.

Some comments....  we want people to imagine all the freedom we can have by working together outside the existing system.  Merchants, Traders, Individuals, working together, cooperating.

Imagine a community
Imagine a cooperative
Imagine a company
Imagine a country
Imagine a currency
Imagine them all as one!

Would this be something we'd want to push in our social media? We've been talking about doing a major push when 0.4.5 is released, this could be a great motivator for those that might have left our daily orbit to come back home.

Yes... I think having a huge bounty that is marketed would be a great way to draw attention to what we are doing and what we stand for.    If we are to do this then I need to write up a more through vision to help inspire people to understand. 

[hpenvy]

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"
Modify message

I think we should have a competition for the best song lyrics.   We should really do this one right.

$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best lyrics.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best rendition.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best video to go with the rendition.

Some comments....  we want people to imagine all the freedom we can have by working together outside the existing system.  Merchants, Traders, Individuals, working together, cooperating.

Imagine a community
Imagine a cooperative
Imagine a company
Imagine a country
Imagine a currency
Imagine them all as one!

Would this be something we'd want to push in our social media? We've been talking about doing a major push when 0.4.5 is released, this could be a great motivator for those that might have left our daily orbit to come back home.

[bytemaster]

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"
Modify message

I think we should have a competition for the best song lyrics.   We should really do this one right.

$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best lyrics.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best rendition.
$500 BitUSD for someone who can produce the best video to go with the rendition.

Some comments....  we want people to imagine all the freedom we can have by working together outside the existing system.  Merchants, Traders, Individuals, working together, cooperating.

Imagine a community
Imagine a cooperative
Imagine a company
Imagine a country
Imagine a currency
Imagine them all as one!

[matt608]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

Plus five

Lets do it

Using who's lyrics? 

[bytemaster]

Agreed ... although .. from blockchain perspective .. BM can be "replaced" as a developer ... just saying

The blockchain is independent of the devs!!

Yes but from the public's perspective BM is the creator and founder--->therefore anything he says or does can and will be held against the blockchain in the mainstream media.

I think that might have been one of the reasons Satoshi wanted to remain anonymous and left bitcoin after it could walk on it's own.

I think most people who are drawn to BitShares will believe in greater individual freedom and privacy to some degree.

I think a key leader, like Bytemaster, who believes in those ideals to the maximum is probably a positive. So even though I think these ideas will create some robust debates, & I personally think he's too idealistic, that's kind of the point of the song 'Some may say I'm a dreamer'  I also think now that we've transitioned to more of a competitive company than crypto-currency metaphor that it's also good to root ourselves in some meaning or purpose that's not entirely Darwinistically ruthless and his personal vision for the world is something that does that.

Remember the TED video... we are still small...  if we can win over the 10% of the 3% that voted for Ron Paul we will have a huge user base.   Bitcoin was born on the backs of these users and has gone astray.   If we can recover and convert the original Bitcoin believers then they can do for us what they did for Bitcoin.   

I think we sell the GOAL and not the MEANS.     BitShares is an imperfect attempt/compromise to realize a universal goal:  non-violence and world peace and prosperity.  I am just uncompromising in my pursuit of those goals.   As long as we are careful to separate the goal from the means we can gain support from everyone.

[bytemaster]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

Plus five

Lets do it

[bobmaloney]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

Plus five

[Empirical1.1]

Agreed ... although .. from blockchain perspective .. BM can be "replaced" as a developer ... just saying

The blockchain is independent of the devs!!

Yes but from the public's perspective BM is the creator and founder--->therefore anything he says or does can and will be held against the blockchain in the mainstream media.

I think that might have been one of the reasons Satoshi wanted to remain anonymous and left bitcoin after it could walk on it's own.

I think most people who are drawn to BitShares will believe in greater individual freedom and privacy to some degree.

I think a key leader, like Bytemaster, who believes in those ideals to the maximum is probably a positive. So even though I think these ideas will create some robust debates, & I personally think he's too idealistic, that's kind of the point of the song 'Some may say I'm a dreamer'  I also think now that we've transitioned to more of a competitive company than crypto-currency metaphor that it's also good to root ourselves in some meaning or purpose that's not entirely Darwinistically ruthless and his personal vision for the world is something that does that.

[zerosum]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

I  say - just do it!

[evolvo]

I can make this into an original song if you so desire.

[xeroc]

CEO of BitShares

[Mysto]

Agreed ... although .. from blockchain perspective .. BM can be "replaced" as a developer ... just saying

The blockchain is independent of the devs!!

Yes but from the public's perspective BM is the creator and founder--->therefore anything he says or does can and will be held against the blockchain in the mainstream media.

I think that might have been one of the reasons Satoshi wanted to remain anonymous and left bitcoin after it could walk on it's own.

[xeroc]

Agreed ... although .. from blockchain perspective .. BM can be "replaced" as a developer ... just saying

The blockchain is independent of the devs!!

[Mysto]

Lets say you get burgled and have to defend yourself, and prosecutors argue that you used excessive force (which people often do). How is a blockchain going to help you there? You need a lawyer.

And I cant imagine a world without prisons either. I especially think rapists should be imprisoned for far longer.

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.     

I could go into an economic analysis of the situation... but imagine a solution exists that does not involve stealing from innocents to punish possible bad guys.   

Better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man rot in jail.   

As far as immediate self defense goes... that is up to public opinion.  If jail is off the table then lawyers are optional.

Honestly BM you and I (and most people on this forum) have a very similar political stance... but if we are trying to market this to the "mainstream" you can't be so political. What you are doing right now is the equivalent of running into the matrix and shouting "THIS IS A FAKE WORLD WAKE UP PEOPLE, YOU'RE BEING CONTROLLED BY THE MACHINES!"

You would be right but in most other people's eyes you would be crazy.
I could imagine 3 years from now when bts is larger, a random news outlet using your political views as a reason not to use bts (I know it doesn't make sense but the media has done worst)

If I were you I would try to be a lot less political. But that's just me.

[Empirical1.1]

Weird... in the frenzy of my last nights posting and the forum software playing ticks on me, my response to Emperical got lost...

In short, do you believe that the crime in GB is less than in your home country because the Brits have 50x better penalties or better law enforcement or better police? Or just because the criminals are 50x less likely to commit crimes?


My answer is simple -  there are 50 better ways to make a living in GB, so the crime is about 50x less...

And doubling the # of persons, the money spent on crime prevention, and doubling the penalties in any of those 2 will do nothing to  the real crime level.

All of those are a factor. Better law enforcement is the key though. 
You are either harshly deterred by the likelihood of getting caught & the punishment, be it from law or violence from community justice. (Given the choice between community violence or shunning, few would choose the violence, hence the communities free market solution to deterring crime is violence  ) Where deterrents are ineffective, good law enforcement can at least remove people from society.  As I mentioned though even the best legal system is not without many terrible faults.

Only people sheltered by a semi-functioning first world legal system and a poor understanding of human psychology tend to believe in far more idealistic alternatives. I think the alternatives sound wonderful though, I encourage pursuit of them whether through blockchain technology or other methods, any ways of creating respectful harmonious societies that require less threats of force or violence. Just don't expect me or my loved ones to live in them till the concepts are fairly well proven in practice.

Edit: My current framework revolves around maximum individual freedom, whilst protecting people from violence, rape & serious crime. I also want to protect 'alleged' criminals from violence too.
My belief is any form of psychological punishment is both an insufficient psychological deterrent for violent crime and insufficient psychological punishment/justice from the POV of the victim and their loved ones that are affected by it, at this current stage of human evolution. Many rapists, murderers and people who enjoy violence are repeat offenders and so society is protected if they are removed. So I am in favour of a some legal system to deal with this issues and have yet to see something I consider a viable alternative.

[santaclause102]

Yeah I'm undecided. I grew up in South Africa. It has one of the highest murder rates in the world and over 80% go unsolved. I won't go into the gruesome detail of how those statistics play out when they affect some of your closest family and friends as well as many other life changing crimes such as gang rape etc.

So I actually prefer myself as well as my friends and loved ones living in the UK that has some kind of law enforcement even though it's possible I could be unfairly on the receiving end of it. Of course the system is flawed & does degenerate into an abuse of power. There is also one law for some and another for others.

Also you'll find if you ever have the unfortunate experience of living in a lawless world that basic human psychology seems to result in street/mob justice with little due process and the punishment of death for crimes as trivial as being accused of stealing a mobile phone.
Decent documentary on community justice - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MKVBrR5YMJ0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBzwEIj5QM

If there are blockchain solutions to some of these issues I welcome them.

I suggest that the problem in South Africa is not lack of prisons.   Take that same population and impose US laws on them and nothing will change.   If you think people obey laws simply because some politicians wrote them down on paper I have a bridge to sell you.

Good people don't need laws, bad people don't follow laws.   A free market system for coordinating non-violent solutions to crime can make a world of difference in places like South Africa.

I have learned a lot here about libertarianism and it resonates very well with many of my values! I'd like to learn more about the potential of a state free society.

There are two things I struggle with / do not know how a society without a central authority which can make people do things can solve:
 
1) How are environmental problems handled if not by prohibitions enforced by some authority?

2) The idea of a state (as a state of law) is  to guarantee certain rights to everybody and enforce those. The poorest man would have his rights (property rights, body integrity etc.) guaranteed as well as a rich man. Now this does not work well in many states and the individuals that are given that authority abuse their power often but it can work well enough to give everyone about the same basic guarantee to protect his/her life and property (in germany it works relatively well). In a society without a central authority wouldn't your most crucial rights (incl. property rights, the right to live / physical integrity) be depended on whether one can "afford" the necessary protection?
Practically: If I can't afford protection someone could just kill me take my kidney and there would be no effort made to prosecute the killer?

EDIT: Here is an additional thought related to point 2): Property rights in the sense that EVERYONE's property is secured can only exist if there is an authority that can enforce it (for property rights to be property rights in the sense that they are guaranteed to EVERYONE it is a necessary that the authority enforces the law as a neutral third party (=no corruption ; here is where the weak link is)). Otherwise what are property rights than the ability to protect your property? I'd say that such an ability is not a "right". This is unproblematic with products (definition below) because products can be traced back to the rightful maker of the product. It gets problematic with land:

There are two kinds of property: Ownership of land (incl. its resources) on the one side and ownership of materialized human work (products). The two are different because someone that has produced a product has every right to call it his and can therefore sell it. With EVERY land owned today someone has simply said that it is "his" at some point in time (except if a state sells land). One example is the american land-rush where so called "sooners" just claimed land IF they could enforce that no one violates it - but by what measure is it their "property"? Over time the forced claim of land was excepted and then enforced by the state. Another example would be mining resources on mars or on asteroids. Land and its resources do not belong to ANYONE by definition IF there is no common agreement about what land belongs to who. So land ownership is either maintained by the owner's own ability to defend it against other's using it or it is maintained by a common agreement that is necessarily enforced by some kind of state (land rush example: the state allowing colonialists to to claim land of a certain size) because what is a "common agreement" (=facts and rules excepted by EVERYONE) but a state that can enforce that common agreement.
END EDIT

Are there any solutions / mechanisms which could solve those problems?

I like the attitude to keep on searching for solutions and make the world better than it is today! ...that is why such discussions are valuable.

What I could NOT AGREE MORE WITH is that the laws and the organizational framework alone change NOTHING. Western societies (especially the US today and Europe during the colonialization) are trying to bring "order" and "democrarcy" and "constitutions" to it's "colonies" for ages which is the most devastating process which leads to endless amounts of violence long term.

[Crossover]

Yeah I'm undecided. I grew up in South Africa. It has one of the highest murder rates in the world and over 80% go unsolved. I won't go into the gruesome detail of how those statistics play out when they affect some of your closest family and friends as well as many other life changing crimes such as gang rape etc.

So I actually prefer myself as well as my friends and loved ones living in the UK that has some kind of law enforcement even though it's possible I could be unfairly on the receiving end of it. Of course the system is flawed & does degenerate into an abuse of power. There is also one law for some and another for others.

Also you'll find if you ever have the unfortunate experience of living in a lawless world that basic human psychology seems to result in street/mob justice with little due process and the punishment of death for crimes as trivial as being accused of stealing a mobile phone.
Decent documentary on community justice - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MKVBrR5YMJ0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBzwEIj5QM

If there are blockchain solutions to some of these issues I welcome them.

i love free world theory, im idealist inside of me, and
 i grew up in pretty dangerous environment too, so forced to be realistic and pragmatic,
human beings are not equal, there are workaholics and lazybones, insolent and polite, smart and stupid, only time will tell what happen next with "freed" folks outside of US and Eu

[zerosum]

Weird... in the frenzy of my last nights posting and the forum software playing ticks on me, my response to Emperical got lost...

In short, do you believe that the crime in GB is less than in your home country because the Brits have 50x better penalties or better law enforcement or better police? Or just because the criminals are 50x less likely to commit crimes?


My answer is simple -  there are 50 better ways to make a living in GB, so the crime is about 50x less...

And doubling the # of persons, the money spent on crime prevention, and doubling the penalties in any of those 2 will do nothing to  the real crime level.

[bytemaster]

Yeah I'm undecided. I grew up in South Africa. It has one of the highest murder rates in the world and over 80% go unsolved. I won't go into the gruesome detail of how those statistics play out when they affect some of your closest family and friends as well as many other life changing crimes such as gang rape etc.

So I actually prefer myself as well as my friends and loved ones living in the UK that has some kind of law enforcement even though it's possible I could be unfairly on the receiving end of it. Of course the system is flawed & does degenerate into an abuse of power. There is also one law for some and another for others.

Also you'll find if you ever have the unfortunate experience of living in a lawless world that basic human psychology seems to result in street/mob justice with little due process and the punishment of death for crimes as trivial as being accused of stealing a mobile phone.
Decent documentary on community justice - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MKVBrR5YMJ0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBzwEIj5QM

If there are blockchain solutions to some of these issues I welcome them.

I suggest that the problem in South Africa is not lack of prisons.   Take that same population and impose US laws on them and nothing will change.   If you think people obey laws simply because some politicians wrote them down on paper I have a bridge to sell you.

Good people don't need laws, bad people don't follow laws.   A free market system for coordinating non-violent solutions to crime can make a world of difference in places like South Africa. 

[zerosum]

I do have an inner conflict about using this song as it "sacred" and I would be pissed off with any company that 'tampered' with it for financial gain.  It could create a very negative knee-jerk response in anger at a company defacing a masterpiece and I have that feeling myself too, so I would prefer a different song be used!  This could stir up a lot of negativity towards bitshares, what would I tell my friends lol?  This is the kind of thing I would complain to them about, a company using dead artists gift to the world for profit.  Is the song choice open for discussion?  I would go for something more catchy and trivial.  Maybe it being controversial and highly emotive could make it very effective.  I don't know.  Still its a very risky play.

If I have no choice in the matter and this song will be used anyway, I at least want it done effectively so here is my contribution:

Imagine

The song is very sombre if you listen to the original, if it's going to be used for marketing a remix should be used.  I found this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes.  Perhaps the creator could be paid for his permission for us to use it.  It conveniently has no lyrics so they could simply be sung over the top. 

These lyrics are be sung melodramatically, emotionally and clearly by an individual man with a small backing choir of girls or a lone very strong black female singer giving humorously dramatic and sexy echoes of the verses as they are sung (echoes are written in brackets)

Try listening though it with the remix starting at 1 minute 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes

In Verse 1 theres a pause between the the main lyric and the echo, with the next line starting just as the echo ends.  In verse two the echoes start immediately or overlapping with the main lyric line.

Verse 1:

Imagine there's free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here for everyone --pause--  (for everyone)
Nobody is left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning you interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Verse 2:

Imagine there's no borders (imagine theres no borders)
no international fees, (no international fees no no)
hidden bills are sent to the hills (sent too the hills yeah)
And tax payers funds aren't used (yes we're actually solvent) (spoken not sung)
Imagine there's no borders
We have no remittance fees!

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Perhaps there could be images of "give peace a chance" shown at the start of the video and end with "Give Bitshares a Chance"  Thought I'd add that idea in there.

Very fervent and cogitative post.

I just LOVE the lyrics as well. [additions are an attempt to improve on something already great]

"Imagine there is was free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here there for everyone --pause--  (for everyone to use)
Nobody is No-one left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning your interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business/You may say you have a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
"

[matt608]

thanks!

[bytemaster]

I do have an inner conflict about using this song as it "sacred" and I would be pissed off with any company that 'tampered' with it for financial gain.  It could create a very negative knee-jerk response in anger at a company defacing a masterpiece and I have that feeling myself too, so I would prefer a different song be used!  This could stir up a lot of negativity towards bitshares, what would I tell my friends lol?  This is the kind of thing I would complain to them about, a company using dead artists gift to the world for profit.  Is the song choice open for discussion?  I would go for something more catchy and trivial.  Maybe it being controversial and highly emotive could make it very effective.  I don't know.  Still its a very risky play.

If I have no choice in the matter and this song will be used anyway, I at least want it done effectively so here is my contribution:

Imagine

The song is very sombre if you listen to the original, if it's going to be used for marketing a remix should be used.  I found this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes.  Perhaps the creator could be paid for his permission for us to use it.  It conveniently has no lyrics so they could simply be sung over the top. 

These lyrics are be sung melodramatically, emotionally and clearly by an individual man with a small backing choir of girls or a lone very strong black female singer giving humorously dramatic and sexy echoes of the verses as they are sung (echoes are written in brackets)

Try listening though it with the remix starting at 1 minute 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes

In Verse 1 theres a pause between the the main lyric and the echo, with the next line starting just as the echo ends.  In verse two the echoes start immediately or overlapping with the main lyric line.

Verse 1:

Imagine there's free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here for everyone --pause--  (for everyone)
Nobody is left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning you interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Verse 2:

Imagine there's no borders (imagine theres no borders)
no international fees, (no international fees no no)
hidden bills are sent to the hills (sent too the hills yeah)
And tax payers funds aren't used (yes we're actually solvent) (spoken not sung)
Imagine there's no borders
We have no remittance fees!

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Perhaps there could be images of "give peace a chance" shown at the start of the video and end with "Give Bitshares a Chance"  Thought I'd add that idea in there.

Amazing. 

[matt608]

I do have an inner conflict about using this song as it "sacred" and I would be pissed off with any company that 'tampered' with it for financial gain.  It could create a very negative knee-jerk response in anger at a company defacing a masterpiece and I have that feeling myself too, so I would prefer a different song be used!  This could stir up a lot of negativity towards bitshares, what would I tell my friends lol?  This is the kind of thing I would complain to them about, a company using dead artists gift to the world for profit.  Is the song choice open for discussion?  I would go for something more catchy and trivial.  Maybe it being controversial and highly emotive could make it very effective.  I don't know.  Still its a very risky play.

If I have no choice in the matter and this song will be used anyway, I at least want it done effectively so here is my contribution:

Imagine

The song is very sombre if you listen to the original, if it's going to be used for marketing a remix should be used.  I found this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes.  Perhaps the creator could be paid for his permission for us to use it.  It conveniently has no lyrics so they could simply be sung over the top. 

These lyrics are be sung melodramatically, emotionally and clearly by an individual man with a small backing choir of girls or a lone very strong black female singer giving humorously dramatic and sexy echoes of the verses as they are sung (echoes are written in brackets)

Try listening though it with the remix starting at 1 minute 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbxKb4AFoes

In Verse 1 theres a pause between the the main lyric and the echo, with the next line starting just as the echo ends.  In verse two the echoes start immediately or overlapping with the main lyric line.

Verse 1:

Imagine there's free banking --pause-- (free banking)
it's here for everyone --pause--  (for everyone)
Nobody is left outside (no no no)
Not a single one --pause--  (not even a single one!)
Imagine there's free banking (ooh ohh ohh)
All sing:  Earning you interest

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Verse 2:

Imagine there's no borders (imagine theres no borders)
no international fees, (no international fees no no)
hidden bills are sent to the hills (sent too the hills yeah)
And tax payers funds aren't used (yes we're actually solvent) (spoken not sung)
Imagine there's no borders
We have no remittance fees!

Chorus:
You may say we are a business
And we open for you now (wow ohh)
I hope today you'll join us
and deposit to Bitshares

Perhaps there could be images of "give peace a chance" shown at the start of the video and end with "Give Bitshares a Chance"  Thought I'd add that idea in there.

[Riverhead]

somebody is paid to just put somebody in prison for every other crime.

This.

The current system is designed to make someone pay, anyone, as long as they can convince enough people.

Speedy: Stop paying your property taxes and see how long your ownership papers have meaning.

Prison: Stop jailing people for non violent crimes. Currently we're using the prison system like trash cans on trash day. Once that truck takes your shit away you never think about it again.

[matt608]

It would be helpful to know, will this be used as 'background' music for a video about Bitshares, or if it will be an advert that is all about the song, where there can be visual accompaniment to the lyrics? 

I'm working on something but need to know what the options are, will multiple groups of singers be able to hired to have different groups sing different lines to keep it interesting and give the appearance of being a very large organisation in a video?  Or is it just just background music?  Thanks

[Empirical1.1]

Yeah I'm undecided. I grew up in South Africa. It has one of the highest murder rates in the world and over 80% go unsolved. I won't go into the gruesome detail of how those statistics play out when they affect some of your closest family and friends as well as many other life changing crimes such as gang rape etc.

So I actually prefer myself as well as my friends and loved ones living in the UK that has some kind of law enforcement even though it's possible I could be unfairly on the receiving end of it. Of course the system is flawed & does degenerate into an abuse of power. There is also one law for some and another for others.

Also you'll find if you ever have the unfortunate experience of living in a lawless world that basic human psychology seems to result in street/mob justice with little due process and the punishment of death for crimes as trivial as being accused of stealing a mobile phone.
Decent documentary on community justice - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MKVBrR5YMJ0
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBzwEIj5QM

If there are blockchain solutions to some of these issues I welcome them.

[Crossover]

Better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man rot in jail.   

Isis gunmans okay with that,
no jokes, good concept of utopian society on separate Island, but mainland have to stay as purgatory for common folks who tend to be cruel and nasty
5-10% are pathological criminals because of their psychology
others 70% do what others do
20% do not break the law in any situation

[zerosum]

Even one wrongly accused person in jail is a good enough reason for me, personally!
 And the sad fact is the number is between 30% and 75% depending on the 'crime' we are talking about. Mainly because somebody is paid to just put somebody in prison for every other crime.

I really hope this numbers are not accurate !!!

Just hope beyond hope,  your wife does not die while  you are not:
- for -4h to +4 of her death; with somebody that is not  too close to you, but still remembers being with you during this time;
because if those circumstances do not fall well for you...well, you are guilty...for 'life'

PS
And yes, 20-30% are totally innocent, and the rest serve sentences for not exactly the  crimes they've committed (although they must serve one for other crimes)

[liondani]

Even one wrongly accused person in jail is a good enough reason for me, personally!
 And the sad fact is the number is between 30% and 75% depending on the 'crime' we are talking about. Mainly because somebody is paid to just put somebody in prison for every other crime.

I really hope this numbers are not accurate !!!

[merockstar]

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.

So its not the imprisoning you object to, just forcing tax-payers to pay for the prisons? I will gladly pay taxes to lock away rapists. The fact that a small number of innocent people are prosecuted is not a good reason for objecting to a prison itself.

I agree that if you could come up with a viable alternative, that would be very creative indeed.

Even one wrongly accused person in jail is a good enough reason for me, personally!
 And the sad fact is the number is between 30% and 75% depending on the 'crime' we are talking about. Mainly because somebody is paid to just put somebody in prison for every other crime.

I fully agree with you BM and Tony. Beyond a reasonable doubt should mean ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING DOUBT.

We have way too many people in prison, and not only that, but we punish them beyond their time served.
You do your time, then you should be rehireabe and still able to vote. How in the fuck does anybody believe that any criminal can be rehabilitated in the system as established?

[merockstar]

Imagine there's no drug laws
Everyone's free to get high
Imagine automation
And goods with a fair price
Minimum wage not needed
Those companies will just die
And everyone whose born here
Gets a little piece of the pie
Imagine all the people
Living in harmony

[oco101]

BM has given up coding and now composing songs while walking up mountain trails.

We are all doomed!! Sell everything!!

Lol lol indeed doomed !!!!

[BTS007]

 

[zerosum]

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.

So its not the imprisoning you object to, just forcing tax-payers to pay for the prisons? I will gladly pay taxes to lock away rapists. The fact that a small number of innocent people are prosecuted is not a good reason for objecting to a prison itself.

I agree that if you could come up with a viable alternative, that would be very creative indeed.

Even one wrongly accused person in jail is a good enough reason for me, to declare the system not working, personally!
And the sad fact is the number is between 30% and 75% depending on the 'crime' we are talking about. Mainly because somebody is paid to just put somebody in prison for every other crime.

[speedy]

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.

So its not the imprisoning you object to, just forcing tax-payers to pay for the prisons? I will gladly pay taxes to lock away rapists. The fact that a small number of innocent people are prosecuted is not a good reason for objecting to a prison itself.

I agree that if you could come up with a viable alternative, that would be very creative indeed.

[zerosum]

http://youtu.be/Eh44QPT1mPE?t=1m47s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGSI3SHXq8

[CLains]

http://youtu.be/Eh44QPT1mPE?t=1m47s

[zerosum]

Lets say you get burgled and have to defend yourself, and prosecutors argue that you used excessive force (which people often do). How is a blockchain going to help you there? You need a lawyer.

And I cant imagine a world without prisons either. I especially think rapists should be imprisoned for far longer.

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.     

I could go into an economic analysis of the situation... but imagine a solution exists that does not involve stealing from innocents to punish possible bad guys.   

Better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man rot in jail.   
[/b]
As far as immediate self defense goes... that is up to public opinion.  If jail is off the table then lawyers are optional.

WOW Just WOW

I Never thought you believe in that too.

For me personally, this is the at least the # 2 thing ( I do believe it is #1 but just to be on the safe side of stuff I say #2), and I try to push this through everybody's hard head!


-------------------------------

It sure is kind of strange that this song is totally opposite to my, and I am pretty sure, your core believes *, and it somehow strikes a chord for both of us... life is a weird place.

I like your lyrics, btw.


* Imagine no  possessions; implying that ownership is  the root of all evil;

[bytemaster]

Lets say you get burgled and have to defend yourself, and prosecutors argue that you used excessive force (which people often do). How is a blockchain going to help you there? You need a lawyer.

And I cant imagine a world without prisons either. I especially think rapists should be imprisoned for far longer.

Imagine means "be creative" and look for a solution.   In my opinion just because someone is raped they don't get a free pass on robbing someone else at gunpoint to pay to put someone in prison who has a non-0 % chance of being innocent.   A significant number of "rape" cases are fraudulent charges or they accuse the wrong man.     

I could go into an economic analysis of the situation... but imagine a solution exists that does not involve stealing from innocents to punish possible bad guys.   

Better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man rot in jail.   

As far as immediate self defense goes... that is up to public opinion.  If jail is off the table then lawyers are optional.

[speedy]

Lets say you get burgled and have to defend yourself, and prosecutors argue that you used excessive force (which people often do). How is a blockchain going to help you there? You need a lawyer.

And I cant imagine a world without prisons either. I especially think rapists should be imprisoned for far longer.

I have a contract saying that I own my house. This can be used to enforce its boundaries if my neighbors try to encroach my space.

I dont get your vision...

[bytemaster]

Imagine having this made into a youtube music video (John Lennon / Imagine music of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8 ), and how it could spread virally through the crypto / non-crpyto community to get the message out... imagine...

And time it to coincide with this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11243506/A-listers-assemble-for-largest-charity-singalong-of-John-Lennons-Imagine.html

Imagine you read my mind...

[nethyb]

 
Imagine having this made into a youtube music video (John Lennon / Imagine music of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8 ), and how it could spread virally through the crypto / non-crpyto community to get the message out... imagine...

And time it to coincide with this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11243506/A-listers-assemble-for-largest-charity-singalong-of-John-Lennons-Imagine.html

[cgafeng]

 

[sumantso]

BM has given up coding and now composing songs while walking up mountain trails.

We are all doomed!! Sell everything!!

[bytemaster]

I would like the forums help rewriting this song to capture my vision for the world:

1) Post contract society (ie: Agreements without enforcement via threats of violence)
2) Voluntary, No compulsion, Non Violence
3) No prisons yet justice through coordinated voluntary shunning
4) Banking freedom, no capital controls, no government intrusion, privacy...

I have put together some of my thoughts but am sure there are better song writers and poets among us.   Lets capture the vision of what we are doing here to change the world.

"Imagine"

Imagine there's no contracts
Nothing you must do
Nothing to sue or cry for
And no lawyers too
Imagine all the people
Living in freedom...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Imagine there's no punishment
It's easy if you try
No dungeons below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one