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Offline santaclause102

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Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« on: November 23, 2014, 04:55:54 PM »

When I vote today i have the option to either vote as I selected or to vote as those delegates I selected recommend to vote. If everyone would do the latter voting participation would probably be much higher. The first option though gives the voter more control.

Combining the good of both could look like this: When I select x delegates I want to vote for 101-x delegates are complemented to my delegate slate based on the recommendations of those I selected.

It would be like a default for RDPOS when I don't know 101 delegates I can trust but that would be better than voting only with a fraction of your stake if you only know 5 you trust.

Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 04:57:14 PM »
Quote
Combining the good of both could look like this: When I select x delegates I want to vote for (like in option 1) 101-x delegates are complemented to my delegate slate based on the recommendations of those I selected.

Isn't this how it already works?
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 04:59:45 PM »
Quote
Combining the good of both could look like this: When I select x delegates I want to vote for (like in option 1) 101-x delegates are complemented to my delegate slate based on the recommendations of those I selected.

Isn't this how it already works?
I don't know. I thought I only vote for 5 delegates if I selected to vote from them and not select to vote as they recommend.

Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 05:01:59 PM »
Quote
Combining the good of both could look like this: When I select x delegates I want to vote for (like in option 1) 101-x delegates are complemented to my delegate slate based on the recommendations of those I selected.

Isn't this how it already works?
I don't know. I thought I only vote for 5 delegates if I selected to vote from them and not select to vote as they recommend.

Isn't the default "vote for recommended" and "vote for recommended" option does what you're suggesting?
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Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 05:07:28 PM »
Maybe it's just the name "vote as delegates recommend" that's confusing
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Offline luckybit

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2014, 05:20:35 PM »
When I vote today i have the option to either vote as I selected or to vote as those delegates I selected recommend to vote. If everyone would do the latter voting participation would probably be much higher. The first option though gives the voter more control.

Combining the good of both could look like this: When I select x delegates I want to vote for 101-x delegates are complemented to my delegate slate based on the recommendations of those I selected.

It would be like a default for RDPOS when I don't know 101 delegates I can trust but that would be better than voting only with a fraction of your stake if you only know 5 you trust.

I don't support this. It centralizes power into fewer and fewer voters when we should be decentralizing power outward into greater and greater numbers of voters. In the long term it may also encourage us to be a nation of followers instead of a nation of individuals.

So on this I disagree with Bytemaster on strategy. In the short term this might not be a disaster but in the long term RDPoS could produce centralized points of failure. We already have the points of failure around Invictus and the irreplaceable key players but these points of failure are to be expected early on in the life of the project.

I recommend algorithmic voting and autonomous agents because in the long term we have to move away from depending on people to run institutions. If certain decision processes can be turned into algorithms they should be as this would be more economically efficient over time while also allowing greater levels of participation.

The reason for voter apathy is attention scarcity. RDPoS to me seems like a bandaid solution for the problem of attention scarcity when in my opinion the only sustainable solution involves using autonomous agents. The only way I see RDPoS working is if an algorithm or autonomous agent interacted with the DAC participant on the client side so that votes are distributed according to that.
Bytemaster:
Quote
This is no more centralized than the current system and in-fact, encourages decentralization because delegates compete on making solid recommendations that include other delegates. 

It is a slippery slope. I see some short term benefits of RDPoS but I also see long term risks which more than offset the short term benefits unless RDPoS is modified to be flexible enough to adapt to future scenarios. The voter apathy problem is actually directly related to the attention scarcity problem.

Reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 05:31:23 PM by luckybit »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 05:20:52 PM »
I think I know where we did not understand each other.

What I meant was: The option "only vote for those you selected" does not exist anymore. The only way to vote for delegates only you select and not those someone recommended is to select 101 delegates yourself otherwise your slate is complemented with 101-x delegates where x is the number of delegates you selected yourself.

Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 05:23:58 PM »
I think I know where we did not understand each other.

What I meant was: The option "only vote for those you selected" does not exist anymore. The only way to vote for delegates only you select and not those someone recommended is to select 101 delegates yourself otherwise your slate is complemented with 101-x delegates where x is the number of delegates you selected yourself.

"Vote All" ?
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2014, 05:26:17 PM »
I think I know where we did not understand each other.

What I meant was: The option "only vote for those you selected" does not exist anymore. The only way to vote for delegates only you select and not those someone recommended is to select 101 delegates yourself otherwise your slate is complemented with 101-x delegates where x is the number of delegates you selected yourself.

"Vote All" ?
Make "vote all" into "vote the x hand selected delegates + (101 delegates based on RDPOS -x)"
And plain "vote all" doesn exist anymore.
Result: Everyone votes for 101 delegates but can always select his own.
Edit: x up there is the number of delegates you selected not the specific delegates.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 05:43:05 PM by delulo »

Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 05:53:52 PM »
You want to make "vote all" and "vote recommended" the same thing, and then make a new thing that does what "vote all" currently does?

You haven't suggested an option that doesn't exist yet which is why I'm confused
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
You want to make "vote all" and "vote recommended" the same thing, and then make a new thing that does what "vote all" currently does?

You haven't suggested an option that doesn't exist yet which is why I'm confused
I didnt think it was that complicated :)

What I assume exists atm: Vote all = Vote for all you selected yourself. Vote as recommended = Vote as those that you selected recommend.

I proposed: Vote like "vote all" (say you select 10 delegates yourself) and fill up the other 91 spots as those that you selected yourself recommend.
I might be that this already is how "vote as recommend" works. I don't know. I assumed not.

Offline toast

Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2014, 06:27:52 PM »
That's how it works, and it's equivalent if you think each delegate will recommend themself
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Make RDPOS default when less than 101 delegates are selected.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 06:36:56 PM »
That's how it works, and it's equivalent if you think each delegate will recommend themself
Ok. So you can't vote for all those delegates that my selected delegate recommends without voting for him too? And are the delegates I select myself preferred to those recommended? Then that is what I had in mind...

 

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