Technical Delegates Real Time Chat

[wackou]

Delegates should have monitoring tools to self-diagnose network and node issues. I agree getting pinged by a fellow delegate is a nice thing if the monitoring tools fail, but it doesn't seem to be adequate for production-level financial systems IMHO.

I have started to develop such tools, you can find them here: https://github.com/wackou/bts_tools
and my delegate proposal to help me fund my time to further develop the tools: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11857.0

[pollux]

Delegates should have monitoring tools to self-diagnose network and node issues. I agree getting pinged by a fellow delegate is a nice thing if the monitoring tools fail, but it doesn't seem to be adequate for production-level financial systems IMHO.

[Riverhead]

The issue with IRC and the Forum is it's not a very good notification system unless setup as such.

If I'm hanging out watching TV and the network gets into trouble I want some way to be notified by other delegates. Or the other way around.

This works with email, skype, slack, and the like. With IRC and the Forum I need to be logged in and looking at the screen. In the latter scenario I typically have bitsharesblocks.com open anyway so there wouldn't be a need to notify me. While the forum can be setup to send notifications to email one would need to setup a filter looking for a keyword. Otherwise your email would be going off every two seconds.

[theoretical]

for ICQ (not serious, this is a joke)

[Pheonike]

I think Slack is good.

[fuzzy]

I honestly think slack would be best for what you are looking for. 

[emski]

This is the skype chat group:
skype:?chat&blob=s7FK3ZkYII8DujtoAK6x7aTaeUTLgBMEWpeFAD0aRgPq6LKo2cJcynSH_xoV9V9xRd2pY_xjdv_rh88

It was useful today.

[pollux]

We have about 5 folks in the #bitshares-delegates IRC channel. I recommend that all delegates who would like to be included in ad-hoc discussions join.

[gamey]

I dont share your opinion. Forum software is not mobile-friendly. It is full of non-essential stuff.
I would use another means of communication if I had the choice.

You can easily ignore the non-essential stuff.  Any delegate should have the capability to do that.  You go to the thread discussing the issue and ignore the rest of the forum.

Tapatalk works ok for mobile.  People who are only mobile to begin with aren't going to be actively troubleshooting.  So I don't understand.. but thats ok.  I've pushed forum solutions in the past and it had limited success so what do I know.

Although with forum you'll get non-delegates etc who might have valuable input.  shrug.  who knows. 

It seems like if you were trying to achieve  greatest participation and consensus you would have put forums as an option to see how widespread others see forum use as an issue.

Myself, I use about 4 IM systems and whether they are running depends on a need to communicate after last reboot.

[emski]

@gamey The initial intent of this is real time chat.

Ahh I got this thread confused with another?  My bad.

I will stick by my point though.  You need email for initial alert, then use forums.  Typing 1 line messages and not having to hit the refresh button are not features that are > ubiquity of a basic forum.  You type your new info in and hit save.  When someone wants to read more data, they click refresh.

It is barely any less real time than an IM, except it requires people to hit refresh. 

I mean, if you want a private group then instant messaging seems useful.  If you want it to aid in troubleshooting I don't see how IM systems help much.

I dont share your opinion. Forum software is not mobile-friendly. It is full of non-essential stuff.
I would use another means of communication if I had the choice.

[gamey]

@gamey The initial intent of this is real time chat.

Ahh I got this thread confused with another?  My bad.

I will stick by my point though.  You need email for initial alert, then use forums.  Typing 1 line messages and not having to hit the refresh button are not features that are > ubiquity of a basic forum.  You type your new info in and hit save.  When someone wants to read more data, they click refresh.

It is barely any less real time than an IM, except it requires people to hit refresh. 

I mean, if you want a private group then instant messaging seems useful.  If you want it to aid in troubleshooting I don't see how IM systems help much.

[emski]

@gamey The initial intent of this is real time chat.

[gamey]

About the mail as an option:
This forum is better than a mailing list.
What I suggested is a real-time communication.
More like a permanent channel where all delegates will hang out and whenever an important issue arises it will be quickly communicated.

I don't get why you don't just have email as #1 and people use whatever notification  service they wish.  I would suggest sticking with email  as part of any solution.  The email -> SMS gateways are free and make it near realtime.  Some people will be far more responsive to text messages than any of the other things listed.

What you are primarily wanting is an alert system, not a 2-way communication system.

The forum then becomes the 2-way communication system.  You guys are over-engineering this IMO.  Things like skye should be secondary/optional.

[emski]

I see 7 responses in favor of skype.
I'd ask people willing to create such group to state it (via skype PM message to me or PM me their skype ID).
Even though I might have added someone as skype contact I'll not add that person to the group unless he/she explicitly agrees.

[fran2k]

I think IRC @ freenode will be the best. Its the classic.

[liondani]

could we use the BTS wallets mail option in the near future?
(imagine they adding a future  like sending encrypted mail messages via the bts wallet to a group with contact names...it should be easy to implement)

[svk]

About mumble as an option:
Mumble is great for real-time conversations but is too engaging for the idea I have in mind. Mumble sessions with delegates is a good thing but isn't on the topic at all.
It requires additional software/servers and more attention from all the participants.

I don't understand your objection, perhaps because I don't know your final objectives. Why you say its not on topic.

There is already a mumble server, you don't need another one.  Many of us already have the software.  Nearly all the options require some software, right?

if we were to use mumble, it wouldn't be like the 'sessions' we have with BM .  I think there would just be a private room that only delegates have access to.  You can create your own private room and only people you invite could join the conversation.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm pushing for mumble, I'm not, just trying to understand your objection. 

I think what mumble lacks is video, as well as a simple account messaging system. I can't send a message to someone if they are not connected. I can't request a 'hangout' within the system if people aren't connect. etc.  so it seems it may not be ideal.

Mumble requires full attention of the attendants. If you are not listening the entire time you will miss the point. Mumble is great for scheduled (short) sessions. However even if you record the session getting all essential information quickly isn't an easy option. I think mumble is a good thing and should be used but not in the scenario I have in mind.

Here is a possible scenario :
DDoS attack against some nodes or transaction flood attack. One of the exchanges changes its API so most of the price feeds fail to update (that actually happens). Basically anything that impairs BTS performance.
The Real Time Chat should allow for instant notification and initial troubleshooting of the issue. And all conversations should be logged so that delegates that come in later can understand quickly what is going on. Mumble is not suitable for that. Mail is only a little better than the forum.

Such solution should have IM capabilities and a mobile client and of course chat log.

Agreed. I'd never heard of Slack but looked it up and it looks very nice and seems to fit the bill. Another issue for me with Skype btw is that it's nigh impossible to install on Ubuntu 64 bit, I can't get it working on my current installation.

bitshares.slack.com is taken, is it used by the dev team already or did someone else register it?

[emski]

About mumble as an option:
Mumble is great for real-time conversations but is too engaging for the idea I have in mind. Mumble sessions with delegates is a good thing but isn't on the topic at all.
It requires additional software/servers and more attention from all the participants.

I don't understand your objection, perhaps because I don't know your final objectives. Why you say its not on topic.

There is already a mumble server, you don't need another one.  Many of us already have the software.  Nearly all the options require some software, right?

if we were to use mumble, it wouldn't be like the 'sessions' we have with BM .  I think there would just be a private room that only delegates have access to.  You can create your own private room and only people you invite could join the conversation.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm pushing for mumble, I'm not, just trying to understand your objection. 

I think what mumble lacks is video, as well as a simple account messaging system. I can't send a message to someone if they are not connected. I can't request a 'hangout' within the system if people aren't connect. etc.  so it seems it may not be ideal.

Mumble requires full attention of the attendants. If you are not listening the entire time you will miss the point. Mumble is great for scheduled (short) sessions. However even if you record the session getting all essential information quickly isn't an easy option. I think mumble is a good thing and should be used but not in the scenario I have in mind.

Here is a possible scenario :
DDoS attack against some nodes or transaction flood attack. One of the exchanges changes its API so most of the price feeds fail to update (that actually happens). Basically anything that impairs BTS performance.
The Real Time Chat should allow for instant notification and initial troubleshooting of the issue. And all conversations should be logged so that delegates that come in later can understand quickly what is going on. Mumble is not suitable for that. Mail is only a little better than the forum.

Such solution should have IM capabilities and a mobile client and of course chat log.

[Pheonike]

Any option should also have a good mobile client (android/ios).

[Riverhead]

What about a mumble/(email or IM) combo. Email/IM invites to a mumble session.

[Xeldal]

About mumble as an option:
Mumble is great for real-time conversations but is too engaging for the idea I have in mind. Mumble sessions with delegates is a good thing but isn't on the topic at all.
It requires additional software/servers and more attention from all the participants.

I don't understand your objection, perhaps because I don't know your final objectives. Why you say its not on topic.

There is already a mumble server, you don't need another one.  Many of us already have the software.  Nearly all the options require some software, right?

if we were to use mumble, it wouldn't be like the 'sessions' we have with BM .  I think there would just be a private room that only delegates have access to.  You can create your own private room and only people you invite could join the conversation.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm pushing for mumble, I'm not, just trying to understand your objection. 

I think what mumble lacks is video, as well as a simple account messaging system. I can't send a message to someone if they are not connected. I can't request a 'hangout' within the system if people aren't connect. etc.  so it seems it may not be ideal.

[cube]

I can go for anything but preferably lightweight and does not eat up ton of RAM.

[cass]

You have to increase votes! I added Tox and XMPP and increase max. votes to 3!

Thanks! I cannot increase the votes count after I've created the poll. Could an admin do something about this ?

done

[emski]

About the mail as an option:
This forum is better than a mailing list.
What I suggested is a real-time communication.
More like a permanent channel where all delegates will hang out and whenever an important issue arises it will be quickly communicated.

About mumble as an option:
Mumble is great for real-time conversations but is too engaging for the idea I have in mind. Mumble sessions with delegates is a good thing but isn't on the topic at all.
It requires additional software/servers and more attention from all the participants.

[emski]

You have to increase votes! I added Tox and XMPP and increase max. votes to 3!

Thanks! I cannot increase the votes count after I've created the poll. Could an admin do something about this ?

[xeroc]

can we have a "multi-select" poll?!

//edit: can you also add "tox" and "XMPP" pls?!

The list is kind of a mix of software and protocols
XMPP is a protocol, and a protocol is really more what I think we're trying to agree on.?
Having Jitsi and XMPP is kind of redundant. kind of. (Jitsi is more than just XMPP)

If we agreed on XMPP we wouldn't need to agree on software. Use whatever you want.

Here's a big list of clients that use XMPP : http://xmpp.org/xmpp-software/clients/

I think mumble is probably the easiest solution as we already use it, but lacks some convenience features found in other packages, that may or may not be necessary.

You are absolutely right ..

I didn't know jitsi uses xmpp ..

[ripplexiaoshan]

Tencent qq, for all of the delegates from Chinese community. Mumble is the second most popular way.

[cass]

You have to increase votes! I added Tox and XMPP and increase max. votes to 3!

[emski]

can we have a "multi-select" poll?!

//edit: can you also add "tox" and "XMPP" pls?!

I tried to set multi-select pool after I created it but this option is not available.

[Xeldal]

can we have a "multi-select" poll?!

//edit: can you also add "tox" and "XMPP" pls?!

The list is kind of a mix of software and protocols
XMPP is a protocol, and a protocol is really more what I think we're trying to agree on.?
Having Jitsi and XMPP is kind of redundant. kind of. (Jitsi is more than just XMPP)

If we agreed on XMPP we wouldn't need to agree on software. Use whatever you want.

Here's a big list of clients that use XMPP : http://xmpp.org/xmpp-software/clients/

I think mumble is probably the easiest solution as we already use it, but lacks some convenience features found in other packages, that may or may not be necessary.

[xeroc]

can we have a "multi-select" poll?!

//edit: can you also add "tox" and "XMPP" pls?!

[Xeldal]

What's wrong with Mumble?

good point.  Its a good option.  Many of us already have it as well.

[Pheonike]

What's wrong with Mumble?

[pollux]

I'm open for whatever you folks decide. What about slack?

As long as anybody else is on slack, I'd use it too. Already have it going 24/7.

The downsides are that it's closed/proprietary and requires user administration (weak central point of failure).

Skype is right out for me as it isn't secure, may contain backdoors (MSFT/NSA) and I don't use it for anything else anymore.

[emski]

email could work but it is not realtime (read IM).
Jitsi is viable option.
slack has much more functionality than IM but could be used.

[Riverhead]

I'm open for whatever you folks decide. What about slack?

[Xeldal]

I'm not a big fan a skype either.

What about Jitsi?

open source and all that jazz.
https://jitsi.org/Main/Download
http://prism-break.org/en/projects/jitsi/

Though i don't expect everyone to change for me. 

[monsterer]

Surely email is the lowest common denominator for this kind of thing?

[xeroc]

I could setup a chat logger into the bribble bot and log everything said in #bitshares-delegate onto a webpage ..

[svk]

I'd like to have an alternative to Skype as well but for different reasons.

First one is the fact that MS put hugely deceptive ads in the Skype android app that pretend to be actual messages from a contact. The fact that the option to disable these ads doesn't work just makes thing even worse!

Secondly I just dislike how they handle contact names and actual skype handles, I can never tell which is which and am unable to say for sure what my actual username is..

Whatsapp does group messages really well and is way ahead of Skype UI wise, but it's linked to your actual phone number which isn't great, something like whatsapp with the possibility of just creating an anonymous account would be great.

[emski]

messages are stored in:
+mail
+xmpp
+bitmessage (~3 days storage afaik)
+tox

real time:
+irc
+tox
+irc

Not sure what fits best ..

What I don't like with skype is that it is closed-source, managed by MS and has NSA backdoors (wild guess)

Its even easier to spy on irc. I don't think anything that would be discussed there should be confidential or possibly incriminating. Well, I don't care about the actual software as long as it has:

Majority of delegates agree on using it.
Realtime communication.
Chat logs.
Mobile version.

[xeroc]

messages are stored in:
+mail
+xmpp
+bitmessage (~3 days storage afaik)
+tox

real time:
+irc
+tox
+irc

Not sure what fits best ..

What I don't like with skype is that it is closed-source, managed by MS and has NSA backdoors (wild guess)

[emski]

#bitshares-delegates on freenode irc?

I see only 1 person there.
Skype can deliver messages even if you are currently offline.

Freenode has a service called "MemoServ" .. but you are right .. maybe a skype group would also make sense .. although I do not like skype much .. to be honest

What do you suggest as an alternative ?

[xeroc]

#bitshares-delegates on freenode irc?

I see only 1 person there.
Skype can deliver messages even if you are currently offline.

Freenode has a service called "MemoServ" .. but you are right .. maybe a skype group would also make sense .. although I do not like skype much .. to be honest

[xeroc]

#bitshares-delegates on freenode irc?

yep .. I registered that one and also have the bribble bot in it ..
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/IRC

[emski]

#bitshares-delegates on freenode irc?

I see only 1 person there.
Skype can deliver messages even if you are currently offline.

[pollux]

#bitshares-delegates on freenode irc?

[emski]

I think it would be wise if we have real-time chat with people maintaining delegates and/or tools for delegates.
This will help for faster issue identification and resolution.
I suggest we crate a skype group for anyone interested.
PM me your skype IDs and I'll create such group and add you into it.

PS: If you believe another messenger should be used -> state it here.

EDIT1: Skype group: http://skype/?chat&blob=s7FK3ZkYII8DujtoAK6x7aTaeUTLgBMEWpeFAD0aRgPq6LKo2cJcynSH_xoV9V9xRd2pY_xjdv_rh88