Author Topic: [Proposal] Increase max delegate pay to 250 BTS per block  (Read 10023 times)

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Offline Gentso1

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Toast:
You are an extraordinarily talented person. Hard working and honest.

Unfortunately you have all the arrogance of youth.

Your posts are almost always thoughtful, generous and helpful. But  on rare occasion they demonstrate hubris and have been as detrimental as anything Bytemaster has ever done. Please work out your frustrations with him and/or other team members in private. Or bring them up in a Mumble session that you all attend. Posting this here you are needlessly contributing to Newmine's agenda and negatively affecting our investments in this project.

I don't want to discourage Toast, since he's a good and talented guy, but I agree with this statement. From the positive perspective, Toast has a great potential to be a greater person.
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Offline cass

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Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

I agree this delegate system is severely broken.  It needs to be repaired.

Your delegate hack seemed to make things even more complicated but TBH I didn't pay much attention.  It seemed too complicated to get enough people to use it.

I would rather you have more of a role in making decisions.

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Offline testz

if you are not aware newmine is making fun of all of us.

 +5%  :) or someone hack NewMine forum account  :)

Offline gamey

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Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

I agree this delegate system is severely broken.  It needs to be repaired.

Your delegate hack seemed to make things even more complicated but TBH I didn't pay much attention.  It seemed too complicated to get enough people to use it.

I would rather you have more of a role in making decisions.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline jsidhu

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I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value.  For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.

I think some people were turned off by the "merger" not so much because the idea of a merger was bad but simply because it appeared that Dan had the power to unilaterally change the rules and create more shares.  If the same decision was made after a fairly perceived stake weighted poll was conducted the whole thing may have been perceived differently.  Same goes for conflating delegates with workers; there is FUD in regards to how easily dilution happens.  I've tended to think having a high bar of 50% approval of active shares for dilution would be perceived better even if it took a lot of work to get there, especially because dilution was controversial and not in the original design.
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Offline merlin0113

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Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.


Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.

I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested.  But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.

LOL... What local time in your timezone when mumble begins again?
Thank you!

It would be approx 2 1/2 hours from now.
Go ahead and post an invite thread, merlin, and we can go from there.  It would be a little after midnight eastern

Thank you for your support. But no, I'd rather not to overstate this matter by a specific thread. Thanks again.
I think it's 12 hours from now, yes, it's midnight here.

Offline fuzzy

Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.


Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.

I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested.  But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.

LOL... What local time in your timezone when mumble begins again?
Thank you!

It would be approx 2 1/2 hours from now.
Go ahead and post an invite thread, merlin, and we can go from there.  It would be a little after midnight eastern
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Offline merlin0113

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Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.


Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.

I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested.  But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.

LOL... What local time in your timezone when mumble begins again?
Thank you!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 02:55:46 am by merlin0113 »

Offline fuzzy

Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.


Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.

I'll gladly host something informally tonight. ..if people are interested.  But it will have to be after I put the baby to sleep.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline merlin0113

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Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

You would know better than anyone outside the project. I guess that's why you are on Music now? Good luck.


Big change, maybe we could cover this tonight on the mumble.

Offline merlin0113

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VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

That sounds about right. And as it should be. What is the point of screwing around with low value (and difficult, time-wise, to establish) services like VOTE and DNS when the cash cow (BitAssets) are apparently not even yet ready to gain adoption?

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

I'm curious why you think proposals are a huge priority? By the way, are you talking about binding proposals that allocated diluted pay directly, or improving the client-side features of the delegate slate negative int hack for non-binding proposals which inform everyone (particularly the delegates) of what the shareholders want and thus allow the delegates to direct funds captured from the existing delegate pay system to make those proposals happen?

Either way, it doesn't seem like it should be a priority at the moment. People would use the proposals to all say the same thing: we need a stable lightweight wallet, we need liquid bridges, we need a lightweight wallet with exchange support. Until then, there is little hope for BTS price to recover, which means there is little hope in having enough resources to pay for the development of any other proposals the shareholders could possibly want.

^^ This  +5%

Despite wallet using experiences and lack of viable light wallet, BTS is already a viable product in my opinion.
As non devs, we need to do something like Rune, Method-X, DACx, tradebts.com, shapeshift, elamto, cass did and still doing, their hard work directly add value to BTS project.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

That sounds about right. And as it should be. What is the point of screwing around with low value (and difficult, time-wise, to establish) services like VOTE and DNS when the cash cow (BitAssets) are apparently not even yet ready to gain adoption?

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

I'm curious why you think proposals are a huge priority? By the way, are you talking about binding proposals that allocated diluted pay directly, or improving the client-side features of the delegate slate negative int hack for non-binding proposals which inform everyone (particularly the delegates) of what the shareholders want and thus allow the delegates to direct funds captured from the existing delegate pay system to make those proposals happen?

Either way, it doesn't seem like it should be a priority at the moment. People would use the proposals to all say the same thing: we need a stable lightweight wallet, we need liquid bridges, we need a lightweight wallet with exchange support. Until then, there is little hope for BTS price to recover, which means there is little hope in having enough resources to pay for the development of any other proposals the shareholders could possibly want.

^^ This  +5%
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Offline xiahui135

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Just keep it now. do not make big change to shock the weak supporter.
Btc start-up have no pay form the chain, and many people are to do that. If BTS can become main stream, we need not to pay that much. If not, there is no need to do so too.
Maybe this is the shortage of decentralised pay. Other digital currencies use other way to solve this.
This period we need to pass, do something let the price go up, and keep.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:43:14 am by xiahui135 »

Offline arhag

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VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

That sounds about right. And as it should be. What is the point of screwing around with low value (and difficult, time-wise, to establish) services like VOTE and DNS when the cash cow (BitAssets) are apparently not even yet ready to gain adoption?

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.

I'm curious why you think proposals are a huge priority? By the way, are you talking about binding proposals that allocated diluted pay directly, or improving the client-side features of the delegate slate negative int hack for non-binding proposals which inform everyone (particularly the delegates) of what the shareholders want and thus allow the delegates to direct funds captured from the existing delegate pay system to make those proposals happen?

Either way, it doesn't seem like it should be a priority at the moment. People would use the proposals to all say the same thing: we need a stable lightweight wallet, we need liquid bridges, we need a lightweight wallet with exchange support. Until then, there is little hope for BTS price to recover, which means there is little hope in having enough resources to pay for the development of any other proposals the shareholders could possibly want.

Offline toast

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I'm refusing to take any pay until we get a reasonable number of 0% delegates and use proposals to figure out how to direct inflation.
My interpretation of what Toast is saying is in part that the "governance" of the DAC isn't working as efficiently as it could be and that can hurt value.  For instance, he's been pushing the importance of "proposals" or other stake weighted polling for a while (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14043.0). I tend to agree and have argued that good stake polling is pretty crucial.

I think some people were turned off by the "merger" not so much because the idea of a merger was bad but simply because it appeared that Dan had the power to unilaterally change the rules and create more shares.  If the same decision was made after a fairly perceived stake weighted poll was conducted the whole thing may have been perceived differently.  Same goes for conflating delegates with workers; there is FUD in regards to how easily dilution happens.  I've tended to think having a high bar of 50% approval of active shares for dilution would be perceived better even if it took a lot of work to get there, especially because dilution was controversial and not in the original design.

Wasn't that the bread and butter of the "Killer VOTE DAC"? A built in blockchain voting mechanism? Perhaps what was sold to everyone as the "DAC killer" should've been developed first. That way everyone could have immediately seen what was being sold to us through a merger was in fact legit and worth it.  Now all we got is a "Crutch DAC" missing one of its legs (DNS) and it's spinal cord (VOTE supposedly).

Actually we wouldn't even need the functionality in VOTE, we have the ability to do stake-vote on chain right now via the delegate slate hack but making it usable was never made a priority.

VOTE and DNS should be understood as killed and the merger should be understood as buying out post-feb28 AGS/PTS holders. This leaves the 30m BTS stake for adam which has effectively been repurposed as a marketing fund.  (edit: but that's just my opinion, mind you)

Ask me why proposals keep getting swept under the rug and then interpret my lack of response however you want.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 11:39:45 pm by toast »
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