Sparkle Snapshot Date Announcement - December 14th

[joereform]

Did Poloniex do a Sparkle snapshot for BTS holders? I can't find anything on my balances page to indicate that.

[testz]

snapshot is done?

done

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12284.0

The link refers to the snapshot being taken for PTS ...not for sparkle . This is misleading.

PTS-DPOS has snapshot at the same day as Sparkle, so Sparkle will use same data for allocation shares to PTS owners.

Hmm from what I have read Sparkle snapshot will not be taken from PTS alone , BTS also has a stake .  You are correct when snapshot the same day but allocation is different. Initial supply for sparkle would be 100 Million as compare to DPOS-PTS that has a billion initial supply from their respective snapshots. Refer to sparkle website http://thetruesparkles.wix.com/sparkle#!faq/cyx2
.

Yes, allocation will be different but Sparkle will use the same snapshot of PTS owners and balances as PTS-DPOS.

[jwiz168]

snapshot is done?

done

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12284.0

The link refers to the snapshot being taken for PTS ...not for sparkle . This is misleading.

PTS-DPOS has snapshot at the same day as Sparkle, so Sparkle will use same data for allocation shares to PTS owners.

Hmm from what I have read Sparkle snapshot will not be taken from PTS alone , BTS also has a stake .  You are correct when snapshot the same day but allocation is different. Initial supply for sparkle would be 100 Million as compare to DPOS-PTS that has a billion initial supply from their respective snapshots. Refer to sparkle website http://thetruesparkles.wix.com/sparkle#!faq/cyx2
.

[testz]

snapshot is done?

done

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12284.0

The link refers to the snapshot being taken for PTS ...not for sparkle . This is misleading.

PTS-DPOS has snapshot at the same day as Sparkle, so Sparkle will use same data for allocation shares to PTS owners.

[infovortice2013]

yes 

[jwiz168]

snapshot is done?

done

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12284.0

The link refers to the snapshot being taken for PTS ...not for sparkle . This is misleading.

[infovortice2013]

snapshot is done?

done

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=12284.0

[bigt]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges.

The 'right thing' for an Exchange to do would be to distribute to PTS depositors.

The financial incentives for an Exchange to list coins is to make commissions off of trades, deposits and withdrawals... and retaining custom.

Any Sparks they retain will be a dividend earned off the back of PTS depositors - not a good look for any Exchange.

Whilst no-one can compel the Exchanges to honour snapshots, I'm surprised to see a founder of a coin positively advocating that Exchanges keep any snapshot of funds deposited in them. The success of Sparkles will be based on people investing in them and widespread adoption, not exchanges listing them.

Also, if Exchanges are invested the 'Bitshares ecosystem,' they do so by proxy. They are provide a service to the people who buy and sell on their Exchanges. If people don't trade, the Exchanges have no interest in the coins and delist them. Coins should look to appeal to the people that will use them, not the institutions that only exist to serve people's needs.

[xeroc]

Did they gain 1% on deposit or does that not apply to BTC?

All applies only for BTS:
you deposit BTS .. you get %
you withdraw BTS ... you lose 1%

[Riverhead]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges.

What? That doesn't make any sense.
You want exchanges to list sparkle by giving them sparkle. But you do not want people trading sparkle on exchanges?

Hm .. i see bter doing this all the time with the 1% withdrawal fee and the 1% extra on BTS deposits .. basically .. if you took part in the bts snapshot ON the bter exchange .. you pay a 1% fee for them redeeming YOUR stake .. maybe that's the best way to go .. like an implementation fee payed by those participating in that progress on the exchange ..

the way bter does it currently hurts people that want to by bts paying btc ... they instantly have a 1% loss

Did they gain 1% on deposit or does that not apply to BTC?

[onceuponatime]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges.

What? That doesn't make any sense.
You want exchanges to list sparkle by giving them sparkle. But you do not want people trading sparkle on exchanges?

Makes sense to me. Only keep your funds on an excahnge when you are actively trading. This reduces the risk of being Goxed.

[xeroc]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges.

What? That doesn't make any sense.
You want exchanges to list sparkle by giving them sparkle. But you do not want people trading sparkle on exchanges?

Hm .. i see bter doing this all the time with the 1% withdrawal fee and the 1% extra on BTS deposits .. basically .. if you took part in the bts snapshot ON the bter exchange .. you pay a 1% fee for them redeeming YOUR stake .. maybe that's the best way to go .. like an implementation fee payed by those participating in that progress on the exchange ..

the way bter does it currently hurts people that want to by bts paying btc ... they instantly have a 1% loss

[graffenwalder]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges.

What? That doesn't make any sense.
You want exchanges to list sparkle by giving them sparkle. But you do not want people trading sparkle on exchanges?

[sparkles]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

Actually as founder I deem the right thing for the exchange to keep them.  I want the exchange to have financial incentive to list sparks so they can potentially sell them.  I want them to have a stake in the success.   I want people to keep funds off of exchanges. 

[xeroc]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

... because you cannot force them to do otherwise (read: the "right" thing) 

[sparkles]

Actually I said exchange sparks belong to the exchange not to the depositors unless the exchange chooses to do otherwise.

[kickky]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

I got similar problem as well. Not just sending from bter to my wallet. But even sending between bittrex and poloniex does not work. Should we still stick to 14 Dec as the snapshot date? The BTS network is chaotic right now. Why not readjust the snapshot date? It seems to be a wrong action at the wrong moment

i think sparkle said no exchange bts will be honored in the post
Re-syncing the wallet.

We will take BTS snapshot for Sparkle at the end of Dec.14. Don't forget to deposit before it at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/BTS

[kickky]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

I got similar problem as well. Not just sending from bter to my wallet. But even sending between bittrex and poloniex does not work. Should we still stick to 14 Dec as the snapshot date? The BTS network is chaotic right now. Why not readjust the snapshot date? It seems to be a wrong action at the wrong moment

 i think sparkle said no exchange snapshot. so bter will not take snapshot i guess

Re-syncing the wallet.

We will take BTS snapshot for Sparkle at the end of Dec.14. Don't forget to deposit before it at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/BTS

[joele]

We will take BTS snapshot for Sparkle at the end of Dec.14. Don't forget to deposit before it at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/BTS

Nice, this mean Bter will add Sparkle to their exchange once wallet is release

[ffwong]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

I got similar problem as well. Not just sending from bter to my wallet. But even sending between bittrex and poloniex does not work. Should we still stick to 14 Dec as the snapshot date? The BTS network is chaotic right now. Why not readjust the snapshot date? It seems to be a wrong action at the wrong moment

Re-syncing the wallet.

We will take BTS snapshot for Sparkle at the end of Dec.14. Don't forget to deposit before it at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/BTS

I downloaded the latest release of Bitshares wallet. Delete chain and peer data, resync the block, and finally rescan my wallet against the blockchain. But still, I did not get the withdrawal from bter. I will keep my rest of BTS on bter as they honor my SPK. I believe the BTS chain is a mess (forks) now. Even bitsharesblock reports to use v0.4.26 client, it does not shows the txid from bter and bittrex (I believe they also updated to latest wallets as they halts the service very recently for upgrade). So far, I still have 100 (bter-> my wallet) + 700 BTS (bittrex -> poloniex) transferred BTS missing. 

[pc]

if the last block is mined 13/12 hope that take snapshot of next block, if not people buying last day/minute pts will be pissed of

People trading on exchanges that honour the snapshot will be fine.

For the others there has been ample pre-warning time.

[freeworm]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

I got similar problem as well. Not just sending from bter to my wallet. But even sending between bittrex and poloniex does not work. Should we still stick to 14 Dec as the snapshot date? The BTS network is chaotic right now. Why not readjust the snapshot date? It seems to be a wrong action at the wrong moment

Re-syncing the wallet.

We will take BTS snapshot for Sparkle at the end of Dec.14. Don't forget to deposit before it at https://bter.com/myaccount/deposit/BTS

[ffwong]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

I got similar problem as well. Not just sending from bter to my wallet. But even sending between bittrex and poloniex does not work. Should we still stick to 14 Dec as the snapshot date? The BTS network is chaotic right now. Why not readjust the snapshot date? It seems to be a wrong action at the wrong moment

[lil_jay890]

Fuzz I've also had a problem withdrawing from BTER recently.  It's been a few hours since I sent them from the exchange to my wallet, but they havn't shown up yet.  You still having this same problem?

[infovortice2013]

Can you clarify the exact time? Will it be about 12/14 11:59 PM UTC?

i like to know exactly too

i read poloniex and bter honor snapshot PTS

but im not sure take out exchange because wallet keep hours delay to update and for make confirmations.. go slowly

For PTS the snapshot will be the last block mined before 12/14 ends. It is of course impossible to tell when that will happen. It might have happened already.

if the last block is mined 13/12 hope that take snapshot of next block, if not people buying last day/minute pts will be pissed of

[hpenvy]

Can you clarify the exact time? Will it be about 12/14 11:59 PM UTC?

i like to know exactly too

i read poloniex and bter honor snapshot PTS

but im not sure take out exchange because wallet keep hours delay to update and for make confirmations.. go slowly

I'm not touching the wallet right now.

[pc]

Can you clarify the exact time? Will it be about 12/14 11:59 PM UTC?

i like to know exactly too

i read poloniex and bter honor snapshot PTS

but im not sure take out exchange because wallet keep hours delay to update and for make confirmations.. go slowly

For PTS the snapshot will be the last block mined before 12/14 ends. It is of course impossible to tell when that will happen. It might have happened already.

[infovortice2013]

Can you clarify the exact time? Will it be about 12/14 11:59 PM UTC?

i like to know exactly too

i read poloniex and bter honor snapshot PTS

but im not sure take out exchange because wallet keep hours delay to update and for make confirmations.. go slowly

[fluxer555]

Sparkles says that he is honoring shorts 2x. Is this 2x locked up collateral, or 2/3x locked up collateral? tonyk seemed to ask this however we have no response from sparkles.

Now if you honor 2x collateral you will leave the last 1x collateral not honored (i.e. effectively spreading Sparks amongst all BTS holders or among all genesis holders, depending on how you do it exactly). I do not have strong opinion if this is the best route or not. If you do not intend exactly this you can also honor the full collateral (3x).

[kuwaitee]

Hmm. BTER disabled BTS withdrawal for now
Hope they do consider taking the snapshot.

I hope so.

[Frodo]

Hmm. BTER disabled BTS withdrawal for now
Hope they do consider taking the snapshot.

[clayop]

Can you clarify the exact time? Will it be about 12/14 11:59 PM UTC?

[Riverhead]

...

I am unable to transfer to my wallet.  I have sent them from my exchange account and have not received them for over two days now.  Not sure what is going on...

Am I alone here?

I have a wallet with my delegate account (not set to produce blocks) and a regular account (in the same wallet) and transfers to my regular account from BTER doesn't show up for me either.
wallet_rescan_blockchain doesn't help.
I had to manually do wallet_verify_titan_deposit <transaction_id_prefix> for the balance to show up.

I sent to my QT wallet---oh god.  :/

You can do that command in the console of the GUI client. Or load the CLI client and open wallet default.

[pc]

I will only use the PTS snapshot *IF* someone from the PTS community can produce it for me by December 16.

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this context: PTS snapshots are available at http://ptsags.quisquis.de/ .

[fuzzy]

...

I am unable to transfer to my wallet.  I have sent them from my exchange account and have not received them for over two days now.  Not sure what is going on...

Am I alone here?

I have a wallet with my delegate account (not set to produce blocks) and a regular account (in the same wallet) and transfers to my regular account from BTER doesn't show up for me either.
wallet_rescan_blockchain doesn't help.
I had to manually do wallet_verify_titan_deposit <transaction_id_prefix> for the balance to show up.

I sent to my QT wallet---oh god.  :/

[bitder]

...

I am unable to transfer to my wallet.  I have sent them from my exchange account and have not received them for over two days now.  Not sure what is going on...

Am I alone here?

I have a wallet with my delegate account (not set to produce blocks) and a regular account (in the same wallet) and transfers to my regular account from BTER doesn't show up for me either.
wallet_rescan_blockchain doesn't help.
I had to manually do wallet_verify_titan_deposit <transaction_id_prefix> for the balance to show up.

[fuzzy]

...
This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

I think you should be more considerate of users who are still having connecting and syncing issues with their wallets and have no choice but to keep their funds in exchanges till the next stable release.

What connecting and syncing issues?

Connecting issues like these for the bts wallet
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10895.0

...
This is a place of frustration for me.  Exchanges should be expected to give the sharedrops (or at the very least a large percentage --95%+) to the holders who house their shares with them.

 

I am unable to transfer to my wallet.  I have sent them from my exchange account and have not received them for over two days now.  Not sure what is going on...

Am I alone here?

[DACAttack]

...
This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

I think you should be more considerate of users who are still having connecting and syncing issues with their wallets and have no choice but to keep their funds in exchanges till the next stable release.

What connecting and syncing issues?

Connecting issues like these for the bts wallet
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10895.0

...
This is a place of frustration for me.  Exchanges should be expected to give the sharedrops (or at the very least a large percentage --95%+) to the holders who house their shares with them.

 

[fuzzy]

...
This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

I think you should be more considerate of users who are still having connecting and syncing issues with their wallets and have no choice but to keep their funds in exchanges till the next stable release.

This is a place of frustration for me.  Exchanges should be expected to give the sharedrops (or at the very least a large percentage --95%+) to the holders who house their shares with them.

[sparkles]

...
This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

I think you should be more considerate of users who are still having connecting and syncing issues with their wallets and have no choice but to keep their funds in exchanges till the next stable release.

What connecting and syncing issues?

[DACAttack]

...
This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

I think you should be more considerate of users who are still having connecting and syncing issues with their wallets and have no choice but to keep their funds in exchanges till the next stable release.

[fuzzy]

So I'm going to go ahead and guess PTS holders should keep their PTS in their wallets. 

[Empirical1.1]

To confirm, the first 100 million SPK are allocated equally to BTS, AGS & PTS. Correct?

Yes

Cool, thanks.

[sparkles]

To confirm, the first 100 million SPK are allocated equally to BTS, AGS & PTS. Correct?

Yes

[Empirical1.1]

To confirm, the first 100 million SPK are allocated equally to BTS, AGS & PTS. Correct?

[islandking]

Will BTER be doing a snapshot?

[sparkles]

Is allocation fixed? I'm wondering how much is earmarked for testnet miners.

They will get what is mined.  They are helping produce the project and identifying forking issues that bytemaster warned me about. 

[clayop]

Is allocation fixed? I'm wondering how much is earmarked for testnet miners.

[Ander]

Lets try to get btc38 and bter to honor the sparkle snapshot.

If we do this we will get the chinese support.

[CryptoPrometheus]

So just to be clear, BTS and PTS will be honored, but not AGS?
EDIT: Nevermind, I guess because AGS is already "snapshotted"

[joele]

Lets make life easy on the exchanges and NOT ask them to honor this snapshot, but DO ask them to list it after we launch.

Exchangers honoring snapshots because they don't want massive BTS withdrawal and it would be easy for them to take the snapshot because they already have built in system for this, and once they honor the snapshot it means automatically the coin will be listed.

[CLains]

I read it as BTS in collateral getting 200% more Sparkles!

[zerosum]

As you might know I am all for honoring only the BTS and not the bitAssets themselves, so good decision on that part, imho.

Now if you honor 2x collateral you will leave the last 1x collateral not honored (i.e. effectively spreading Sparks amongst all BTS holders or among all genesis holders, depending on how you do it exactly). I do not have strong opinion if this is the best route or not. If you do not intend exactly this you can also honor the full collateral (3x).

[sparkles]

I will do the snapshot on December 14th, the anniversary of the American Revolution:

The first military encounter of the American Revolution occurred, when on the report of news carried by Paul Revere that the British intended to station a garrison at Portsmouth, New Hampshire; Major John Sullivan led a band of militia to Fort William and Mary, broke into its arsenal, and carried off arms and ammunition, 1774

This applies for BTS and PTS.   I will only use the PTS snapshot *IF* someone from the PTS community can produce it for me by December 16.  I will take the BTS snapshot.  BitAssets will not be honored, shorts will gain 2x and this is intentional because I want to reward those most heavily invested in BTS.

This will be the LAST block produced on December 14th UTC.   I will not ask any exchanges to honor the snapshot and will ask everyone who wants to participate in it to remove it from the exchanges.  In fact I will go so far as to declare that the exchanges OWN the snapshot of funds deposited in them as an incentive for them to list Sparkle and to reward them for supporting the BitShares ecosystem.

Lets make life easy on the exchanges and NOT ask them to honor this snapshot, but DO ask them to list it after we launch.