Author Topic: Hard Questions for Bytemaster  (Read 32631 times)

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Offline bytemaster

If you make a bad first impression then it will cost 3x as much to get an opportunity to make a second impression.   

The current wallet is functional, works reasonably well on Mac but is terrible on windows.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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+5%

The no product argument is rubbish. Also saying look what we have achieved with no marketing is just silly. 
We have now merged.So the message is much simpler.
The market cap has for the most part settled.
BitUSD now has hit the million dollar milestone.
The platform has (at least for me) been very stable and preforms exactly as described

To say their is no product is completely discredited by everyone that has been trading on it and moving 100's of thousands of bts and bitUSD safely and securely.

I am completely bull/rocket ship to da moon but marketing needs to start.If it doesn't start in the time frame that has been mentioned so many times(nov,dec) investor's confidence will be rattled yet again in what has always been our weakest area.

I have a $2,500 pc and the wallet takes at least 5 minute (just timed it and it took 14 MINUTES to launch), it take ~2 minute to open the marketing tab, it takes up way too much memory and processing power, it take hours to rescan and as we speak the wallet froze and all of a sudden stopped syncing (so now I have to do another rescan). Remember we are dealing with people's MONEY! If you log into your wallet one day and it says you have a 0 balance that is scary and leaves an undesirable scar (even if it's a simple fix). I remember how much I panicked the first time that happened to me. That should NEVER happen to a new user. I have seen many threads where people leave bitshares because of this problem alone. The wallet is extremely slow, very buggy, which in turn makes is very frustrating at times.

If you think this is a marketable product then you are in for a shock.

Also from what I understand Brian is targeting a different audience from what MeTHoDx is going after. The audience that Brian is going after will not be as patient with the wallet.

No offence to the dev team but I wouldn't even call this an alpha product. At this stage I am not even willing to recommend it to family and friends for fear that the wallet will turn them off for good.

Edit: As I was writing all that the wallet crashed and I sent a report.

I am using a 800$ laptop, i5 CPU, 500G SSD HD, Windows7. It usually takes about 3 minutes to open the wallet, and 30 seconds to open the market. Better than yours, but still far from satisfying.

BTW, the above description is the common case. If I don't open my wallet over 3 days, it sometimes takes over 10 minutes to open the wallet, and no connection. I have to restart many times to resolve the no connection issue.

However, my point is that, although the current windows wallet is not good enough, the linux wallet is quite stable, and the security and functionality of system can be guaranteed. For enterprise-level application, usually linux version wallet is used. So I don't understand why the wallet stability affects the marketing...
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 01:16:34 am by ripplexiaoshan »
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Offline kisa

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agree with Mysto...
Wallet not stable and fast enough for marketing to non-tech crowd yet.
Tech folks should please take a main street or merchant user perspective, who would have to run to a programmer friend with any questions if something takes too long, crashes or balance doesn't add up.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 09:52:29 pm by kisa »

Offline oco101

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Interestingly, that is exactly what was said in May/June/July before BitShares was first released.

+1

Offline Mysto

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+5%

The no product argument is rubbish. Also saying look what we have achieved with no marketing is just silly. 
We have now merged.So the message is much simpler.
The market cap has for the most part settled.
BitUSD now has hit the million dollar milestone.
The platform has (at least for me) been very stable and preforms exactly as described

To say their is no product is completely discredited by everyone that has been trading on it and moving 100's of thousands of bts and bitUSD safely and securely.

I am completely bull/rocket ship to da moon but marketing needs to start.If it doesn't start in the time frame that has been mentioned so many times(nov,dec) investor's confidence will be rattled yet again in what has always been our weakest area.

I have a $2,500 pc and the wallet takes at least 5 minute (just timed it and it took 14 MINUTES to launch), it take ~2 minute to open the marketing tab, it takes up way too much memory and processing power, it take hours to rescan and as we speak the wallet froze and all of a sudden stopped syncing (so now I have to do another rescan). Remember we are dealing with people's MONEY! If you log into your wallet one day and it says you have a 0 balance that is scary and leaves an undesirable scar (even if it's a simple fix). I remember how much I panicked the first time that happened to me. That should NEVER happen to a new user. I have seen many threads where people leave bitshares because of this problem alone. The wallet is extremely slow, very buggy, which in turn makes is very frustrating at times.

If you think this is a marketable product then you are in for a shock.

Also from what I understand Brian is targeting a different audience from what MeTHoDx is going after. The audience that Brian is going after will not be as patient with the wallet.

No offence to the dev team but I wouldn't even call this an alpha product. At this stage I am not even willing to recommend it to family and friends for fear that the wallet will turn them off for good.

Edit: As I was writing all that the wallet crashed and I sent a report.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 09:57:37 pm by Mysto »

Offline Gentso1

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Do we know this for a fact, or is it speculation?

2 months ago we were complaining that every thought of BM and others were instantly posted here.
Now they keep a radio silence on the marketing campaign.
Everyone would really like to know what is planned, but if it gives the competition a chance to run with it, please don't even give us a glimpse.

I think Brian's hands are tied at the moment, the planned marketing campaign, will probably need some of the new features. On/off ramps etc...

So before we start asking for Brians head, let's just wait a bit longer and see what they have planned for us.

The marketing has ALWAYS been radio silent, it's not something new. The only evidence we have of work Brian has done so far is the botched website, which weeks later still says "why bank when you can bitshare" and has a stock photo of a life buoy on the front page (it's a wordpress theme so anyone could fix that in less than 10 minutes).

I have simply not seen any evidence that Brian is worth the AGS funds we've paid him (and that we inflated BTS 25% to get control of). I form my opinions only based on evidence, so all the "be patient" doesn't work on me at all. I realize BTS will be extremely successful no matter what, but that doesn't make it any less unfair that someone should get a huge stake for nothing, and the fact that brian isn't even defending himself here is seriously annoying me.

The truth is that if there actually was some big push planned by him we would have already known details of it. People have been complaining about marketing for months, and he would have gone public with parts of his plans long ago, to protect his own interests and secure his bonus. The only scenario where it makes sense for him to keep everything silent is if he has got nothing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I already have), but this is the only logical conclusion I arrive at from the evidence we have seen.

If we're lucky he has actually been hiding a plan from us this entire time. In that case now is the time for us to force him to reveal it.

This is 100% right.  Our community has given him many good reasons to be upfront with them about what he is doing.  He has a forum to frequent and even other places like mumble sessions / google hangouts that would create content, show he is active in the community, and also provide outreach for recruitment.

You dont have to market the product during the marketing Buzz phase.  You market the product when you are ready, but that doesnt mean the public shouldnt know about the philosophy.  I heard from somewhere here he has 5 million shares. Another post said 15million. I wonder what is true.

The marketing will be worth every penny. They just need a product first!
Interestingly, that is exactly what was said in May/June/July before BitShares was first released.


 +5%

The no product argument is rubbish. Also saying look what we have achieved with no marketing is just silly. 
We have now merged.So the message is much simpler.
The market cap has for the most part settled.
BitUSD now has hit the million dollar milestone.
The platform has (at least for me) been very stable and preforms exactly as described

To say their is no product is completely discredited by everyone that has been trading on it and moving 100's of thousands of bts and bitUSD safely and securely.

I am completely bull/rocket ship to da moon but marketing needs to start.If it doesn't start in the time frame that has been mentioned so many times(nov,dec) investor's confidence will be rattled yet again in what has always been our weakest area.

Offline Empirical1.1

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I think their big idea a month/two ago was an attempt at PayPal style network effect targeted at a mainstream audience.

I think they've since realised unless you have a pot of funds set aside, most sharedrops will end up eating into the share price a lot short term. As far as I can tell those $100 suggested bonuses are being majorly curtailed to <$10 and they've realised the need to target the next phase of early adopters before mainstream.

I think they'll end up having to be even more measured with both Sharedrops and the markets they target. Even a few $ is really eating into NXTTY imo.. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10589.0

I think most of the network effect will be driven by the community marketing team via social media, creative advertising & small very well strategised Sharedrops that are closely monitored, as well as us the community sharing and gifting BitAssets ourselves.

I'm very bullish on BitShares, I don't see any competitors yet and we win hands down on the development side. (Everybody else will be copying BitShares developments and seeing if they can market them better.)

I know it's hard to put a date on these things but there's a big difference between Jan 1st and March 1st.

Existing investors can push BTS past LiteCoin right now,  if they have a clear date everybody is aiming for and a strategy they can evaluate.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:25:35 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline ticklebiscuit

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Do we know this for a fact, or is it speculation?

2 months ago we were complaining that every thought of BM and others were instantly posted here.
Now they keep a radio silence on the marketing campaign.
Everyone would really like to know what is planned, but if it gives the competition a chance to run with it, please don't even give us a glimpse.

I think Brian's hands are tied at the moment, the planned marketing campaign, will probably need some of the new features. On/off ramps etc...

So before we start asking for Brians head, let's just wait a bit longer and see what they have planned for us.

The marketing has ALWAYS been radio silent, it's not something new. The only evidence we have of work Brian has done so far is the botched website, which weeks later still says "why bank when you can bitshare" and has a stock photo of a life buoy on the front page (it's a wordpress theme so anyone could fix that in less than 10 minutes).

I have simply not seen any evidence that Brian is worth the AGS funds we've paid him (and that we inflated BTS 25% to get control of). I form my opinions only based on evidence, so all the "be patient" doesn't work on me at all. I realize BTS will be extremely successful no matter what, but that doesn't make it any less unfair that someone should get a huge stake for nothing, and the fact that brian isn't even defending himself here is seriously annoying me.

The truth is that if there actually was some big push planned by him we would have already known details of it. People have been complaining about marketing for months, and he would have gone public with parts of his plans long ago, to protect his own interests and secure his bonus. The only scenario where it makes sense for him to keep everything silent is if he has got nothing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I already have), but this is the only logical conclusion I arrive at from the evidence we have seen.

If we're lucky he has actually been hiding a plan from us this entire time. In that case now is the time for us to force him to reveal it.

This is 100% right.  Our community has given him many good reasons to be upfront with them about what he is doing.  He has a forum to frequent and even other places like mumble sessions / google hangouts that would create content, show he is active in the community, and also provide outreach for recruitment.

You dont have to market the product during the marketing Buzz phase.  You market the product when you are ready, but that doesnt mean the public shouldnt know about the philosophy.  I heard from somewhere here he has 5 million shares. Another post said 15million. I wonder what is true.

The marketing will be worth every penny. They just need a product first!
Interestingly, that is exactly what was said in May/June/July before BitShares was first released.

There are projects that are doing very well marketing themselves with nothing but a whitepaper.  Why is bitshares so constrained when others are not? 

I understand playing it safe and not giving specifics about a product that isnt yet done, but that doesn't mean the public should not be drawn into content that gets them hungry for details.  Our community has more than just a product.  We have many awesome things going on here and a founding philosophy that is well established internally. These are points ready to be marketed. Saying otherwise is wrong.

For instance, we cant market the difference between the sharedropping model over the models employed by bitcoin and literally all other competitors? That is a huge selling point being completely ignored...

We should have at least 2-3 videos traveling around teaching people that they should be buying bts/pts instead of bitcoin.  Why would they want to do that? Because it is the first innovation that protects token holders and gives them a stake without any of the risk that is required to get a stake in new projects in other competitors markets.

There is so much else to market that this seems more an excuse.



Offline mint chocolate chip

Quote
Do we know this for a fact, or is it speculation?

2 months ago we were complaining that every thought of BM and others were instantly posted here.
Now they keep a radio silence on the marketing campaign.
Everyone would really like to know what is planned, but if it gives the competition a chance to run with it, please don't even give us a glimpse.

I think Brian's hands are tied at the moment, the planned marketing campaign, will probably need some of the new features. On/off ramps etc...

So before we start asking for Brians head, let's just wait a bit longer and see what they have planned for us.

The marketing has ALWAYS been radio silent, it's not something new. The only evidence we have of work Brian has done so far is the botched website, which weeks later still says "why bank when you can bitshare" and has a stock photo of a life buoy on the front page (it's a wordpress theme so anyone could fix that in less than 10 minutes).

I have simply not seen any evidence that Brian is worth the AGS funds we've paid him (and that we inflated BTS 25% to get control of). I form my opinions only based on evidence, so all the "be patient" doesn't work on me at all. I realize BTS will be extremely successful no matter what, but that doesn't make it any less unfair that someone should get a huge stake for nothing, and the fact that brian isn't even defending himself here is seriously annoying me.

The truth is that if there actually was some big push planned by him we would have already known details of it. People have been complaining about marketing for months, and he would have gone public with parts of his plans long ago, to protect his own interests and secure his bonus. The only scenario where it makes sense for him to keep everything silent is if he has got nothing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I already have), but this is the only logical conclusion I arrive at from the evidence we have seen.

If we're lucky he has actually been hiding a plan from us this entire time. In that case now is the time for us to force him to reveal it.

This is 100% right.  Our community has given him many good reasons to be upfront with them about what he is doing.  He has a forum to frequent and even other places like mumble sessions / google hangouts that would create content, show he is active in the community, and also provide outreach for recruitment.

You dont have to market the product during the marketing Buzz phase.  You market the product when you are ready, but that doesnt mean the public shouldnt know about the philosophy.  I heard from somewhere here he has 5 million shares. Another post said 15million. I wonder what is true.

The marketing will be worth every penny. They just need a product first!
Interestingly, that is exactly what was said in May/June/July before BitShares was first released.

Offline donkeypong

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Do we know this for a fact, or is it speculation?

2 months ago we were complaining that every thought of BM and others were instantly posted here.
Now they keep a radio silence on the marketing campaign.
Everyone would really like to know what is planned, but if it gives the competition a chance to run with it, please don't even give us a glimpse.

I think Brian's hands are tied at the moment, the planned marketing campaign, will probably need some of the new features. On/off ramps etc...

So before we start asking for Brians head, let's just wait a bit longer and see what they have planned for us.

The marketing has ALWAYS been radio silent, it's not something new. The only evidence we have of work Brian has done so far is the botched website, which weeks later still says "why bank when you can bitshare" and has a stock photo of a life buoy on the front page (it's a wordpress theme so anyone could fix that in less than 10 minutes).

I have simply not seen any evidence that Brian is worth the AGS funds we've paid him (and that we inflated BTS 25% to get control of). I form my opinions only based on evidence, so all the "be patient" doesn't work on me at all. I realize BTS will be extremely successful no matter what, but that doesn't make it any less unfair that someone should get a huge stake for nothing, and the fact that brian isn't even defending himself here is seriously annoying me.

The truth is that if there actually was some big push planned by him we would have already known details of it. People have been complaining about marketing for months, and he would have gone public with parts of his plans long ago, to protect his own interests and secure his bonus. The only scenario where it makes sense for him to keep everything silent is if he has got nothing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I already have), but this is the only logical conclusion I arrive at from the evidence we have seen.

If we're lucky he has actually been hiding a plan from us this entire time. In that case now is the time for us to force him to reveal it.

This is 100% right.  Our community has given him many good reasons to be upfront with them about what he is doing.  He has a forum to frequent and even other places like mumble sessions / google hangouts that would create content, show he is active in the community, and also provide outreach for recruitment.

You dont have to market the product during the marketing Buzz phase.  You market the product when you are ready, but that doesnt mean the public shouldnt know about the philosophy.  I heard from somewhere here he has 5 million shares. Another post said 15million. I wonder what is true.

The marketing will be worth every penny. They just need a product first!

Offline ticklebiscuit

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Do we know this for a fact, or is it speculation?

2 months ago we were complaining that every thought of BM and others were instantly posted here.
Now they keep a radio silence on the marketing campaign.
Everyone would really like to know what is planned, but if it gives the competition a chance to run with it, please don't even give us a glimpse.

I think Brian's hands are tied at the moment, the planned marketing campaign, will probably need some of the new features. On/off ramps etc...

So before we start asking for Brians head, let's just wait a bit longer and see what they have planned for us.

The marketing has ALWAYS been radio silent, it's not something new. The only evidence we have of work Brian has done so far is the botched website, which weeks later still says "why bank when you can bitshare" and has a stock photo of a life buoy on the front page (it's a wordpress theme so anyone could fix that in less than 10 minutes).

I have simply not seen any evidence that Brian is worth the AGS funds we've paid him (and that we inflated BTS 25% to get control of). I form my opinions only based on evidence, so all the "be patient" doesn't work on me at all. I realize BTS will be extremely successful no matter what, but that doesn't make it any less unfair that someone should get a huge stake for nothing, and the fact that brian isn't even defending himself here is seriously annoying me.

The truth is that if there actually was some big push planned by him we would have already known details of it. People have been complaining about marketing for months, and he would have gone public with parts of his plans long ago, to protect his own interests and secure his bonus. The only scenario where it makes sense for him to keep everything silent is if he has got nothing. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I already have), but this is the only logical conclusion I arrive at from the evidence we have seen.

If we're lucky he has actually been hiding a plan from us this entire time. In that case now is the time for us to force him to reveal it.

This is 100% right.  Our community has given him many good reasons to be upfront with them about what he is doing.  He has a forum to frequent and even other places like mumble sessions / google hangouts that would create content, show he is active in the community, and also provide outreach for recruitment.

You dont have to market the product during the marketing Buzz phase.  You market the product when you are ready, but that doesnt mean the public shouldnt know about the philosophy.  I heard from somewhere here he has 5 million shares. Another post said 15million. I wonder what is true.

Offline eagleeye

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In the past the devs and marketing people were discussing openly everything and others were coming here copying their ideas. I don't want this anymore.

Do you have an example of marketing ideas that were openly discussed and copied? It was before my time, so would be interesting to see. Even if that was the case then I don't think we currently have any real competition, so the benefits of transparency highly outweighs the risks in our current situation, IMO.

 +5%

Offline Gentso1

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Will the official marketing team be allowed to start before the end of this month, as has been quoted so many times in the past?

A better question to ask is...
"Will a nice wallet and protocol v1 be done before the end of this month?"

Not a chance. Unless you mean december.

Yes December.

Offline Rune

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Quote from: MeTHoDx link=topic=11865.msg156121#msg156121


Freezing funds is a slippery slope.

Frustration with marketing is nothing new, but things have only been improving. Adam is legit and CAVO is a huge opportunity, Brian's crew is legit but cannot execute until we give them the go-ahead with a nice wallet and protocol v1.

I agree with this, we cant just freeze funds as much as I would like to. It will make people lose confidence in the system...

A slippery slope indeed. Part of the reason people will come into the BitShares ecosystem is to avoid their money being effectively or literally taken from them (or devalued) by 'the system'. This will be hindered if the BitShares ecosystem has demonstrated that it's done exactly this.

It wouldn't be such a disaster if BTS were to be taken back contractually 'off chain' though (rather than being frozen).

The fact that this is even being discussed as possible is very worrisome.

If you read through the thread it's pretty obvious that no one took the stupid idea to freeze funds even remotely seriously, exactly for the reasons people are mentioning.

Offline Helikopterben

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Quote from: MeTHoDx link=topic=11865.msg156121#msg156121


Freezing funds is a slippery slope.

Frustration with marketing is nothing new, but things have only been improving. Adam is legit and CAVO is a huge opportunity, Brian's crew is legit but cannot execute until we give them the go-ahead with a nice wallet and protocol v1.

I agree with this, we cant just freeze funds as much as I would like to. It will make people lose confidence in the system...

A slippery slope indeed. Part of the reason people will come into the BitShares ecosystem is to avoid their money being effectively or literally taken from them (or devalued) by 'the system'. This will be hindered if the BitShares ecosystem has demonstrated that it's done exactly this.

It wouldn't be such a disaster if BTS were to be taken back contractually 'off chain' though (rather than being frozen).

The fact that this is even being discussed as possible is very worrisome.