Author Topic: My TEDx Bermuda Presentation on Cryptocurrencies  (Read 8083 times)

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charleshoskinson

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Did I criticize or attack anyone in the TED talk?

Offline gamey

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None of us are without fault Charlie.  Usually when there is a problem it is both sides...

Almost certainty, but this isn't the issue. It has more to do with the perception and treatment. We had a great opportunity to build a great relationship back in January of 2014 at the conference and instead the first thing the Bitshares marketing team did was a Dan Larimer asks the tough questions video. Frankly if that's what you wanted to do, then why not have a debate with Dan and Vitalik about technology? Instead using a hidden camera with a staged question, it just seemed to me to be so mean spirited.

To me it all comes back to Walter Mondale in 84's quip about Gary Hart: "Where's the beef?". You guys have spent a hell of a lot of time spinning plates, answering the wrong questions, and picking fights with projects or people. I had to learn the hard way it's a really bad way to run a project and live life. Focus on the positive stuff. Focus on who you want to help and how you're going to change the world.

I like to think the reason why people like this TED talk was that I said hey here are two people you probably know or have heard about and here are some problems they have. Here is how this technology is going to make their lives better. Ask yourself about what in the Bitshares portfolio is good and try to connect it to a real person and then show the beef. You don't need a 10 grand a month marketer with some ninja plan to blanket the airwaves to accomplish this nor a large conference presence- most of which are just circle masturbation to be honest. Just people like you Fuzz who are passionate, smart and willing to commit a little bit of time everyday.

Did they figure out how the camera was hidden afterwards?  Was it the old hide the camera in the phone game ?

Probably

  "Focus on the positive stuff"  lol you crack me up.
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charleshoskinson

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None of us are without fault Charlie.  Usually when there is a problem it is both sides...

Almost certainty, but this isn't the issue. It has more to do with the perception and treatment. We had a great opportunity to build a great relationship back in January of 2014 at the conference and instead the first thing the Bitshares marketing team did was a Dan Larimer asks the tough questions video. Frankly if that's what you wanted to do, then why not have a debate with Dan and Vitalik about technology? Instead using a hidden camera with a staged question, it just seemed to me to be so mean spirited.

To me it all comes back to Walter Mondale in 84's quip about Gary Hart: "Where's the beef?". You guys have spent a hell of a lot of time spinning plates, answering the wrong questions, and picking fights with projects or people. I had to learn the hard way it's a really bad way to run a project and live life. Focus on the positive stuff. Focus on who you want to help and how you're going to change the world.

I like to think the reason why people like this TED talk was that I said hey here are two people you probably know or have heard about and here are some problems they have. Here is how this technology is going to make their lives better. Ask yourself about what in the Bitshares portfolio is good and try to connect it to a real person and then show the beef. You don't need a 10 grand a month marketer with some ninja plan to blanket the airwaves to accomplish this nor a large conference presence- most of which are just circle masturbation to be honest. Just people like you Fuzz who are passionate, smart and willing to commit a little bit of time everyday.

Offline fuzzy

Fuzz I really do appreciate your passion for this ecosystem and the hard work you commit to propagating good ideas; however, you got to understand that I haven't exactly been treated fairly over the past year and while I really like some of the great ideas the team has put forth, we can't seem to work together for whatever reason. Maybe that's my fault, but it's the current reality.

None of us are without fault Charlie.  Usually when there is a problem it is both sides...
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charleshoskinson

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For some reason you walked away from that.  Not sure why though...seemed like you were pretty interested at the time.  I would be happy to see you create something that uplifts people and lowers barriers to entry in this space--as opposed to going out and pouring honey in people's ears.  That is and always has been my point.   

So going on TED and evangelizing blockchain technology doesn't uplift spirits? Fuzz, you and several others in the Bitshares community have propagated this notion that I'm some sort of empty suit demagogue always working towards special unknown interests. Apparently from a different thread there is fanclub that goes around telling people my dark sins from the foundation to ethereum. Toast commented on the reddit about me leaving ethereum and incorrectly said it was somehow similar to when I left Invictus. They were two totally different situations and I'm still on good terms with Vitalik, Joe and others from the project.

You can pretend you guys aren't doing these things, but you honestly are and it really dampens my enthusiasm for marketing bitshares. Furthermore, pretty much everything I've done in this space has been released under a creative commons or some form of open sourced license. Creating free classes about how bitcoin and blockchain technology works is in some way honey? Writing a 36 page whitepaper on crowdfunding is honey? Working on an identity management system using a blockchain is honey?

You say hey I offered some money to get Charles involved in marketing bitshares, but do you know how many times Invictus contacted me for advice on marketing? Zero, never once did anyone from the team skype me or send me an email. Ethereum is apparently vaporware in the beginning only held up by marketing skill and then when I'm a free agent no one says hey he might have some good advice?

Fuzz I really do appreciate your passion for this ecosystem and the hard work you commit to propagating good ideas; however, you got to understand that I haven't exactly been treated fairly over the past year and while I really like some of the great ideas the team has put forth, we can't seem to work together for whatever reason. Maybe that's my fault, but it's the current reality.

Thus I'm going to just try to stay neutral and comment on technology I think has promise, is well maintained, and has the potential to serve as a foundation for new markets. Perhaps bitshares will achieve this in 2015 and if it does, then I'll do a TED talk or some other presentation on it. I don't need money for an incentive. I just want the tech to exist and be usable.   

 

Offline fuzzy

Then this would happen to Fuzz if I won: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZpsbGr7s8

Lol...
Charlie Charlie Charlie..  Contrary to your belief I actually do not hate you or worry so much about you getting paid for what you do as long as it is completely transparent and truly beneficial. 

I have never hated you.  I have simply questioned your motives and methods.  I have even gone so far as to reach out with an offer to help pay you (what I can afford) for providing educational content (if you don't remember:  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5252.msg71111#msg71111). 

For some reason you walked away from that.  Not sure why though...seemed like you were pretty interested at the time.  I would be happy to see you create something that uplifts people and lowers barriers to entry in this space--as opposed to going out and pouring honey in people's ears.  That is and always has been my point.   
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Offline kisa

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However brief, this was indeed an insightful and inspiring talk - thank you Charles! :)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:38:38 am by kisa »

Offline santaclause102

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any disagreement here charles?

If agreements can be fully defined and measured, then yes;
I guess that yes referred to this bit "smart contracts are protocols that can verify and enforce agreements" which was your original statement from your presentation.
I rather asked whether you agree with my statement on that original statement from you which relativized it...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:00:41 am by delulo »

Offline yellowecho

I really enjoyed your presentation, Charles ! 
I think you'd be a valuable delegate if you're interested in such a position in the future.  Good luck to your future ventures.  8)   
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Offline CLains

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If I was a mathematician I would aim to understand the links between intelligence, prediction markets and integrated information. Then I would investigate the consciousness of beauty, pain, love and freedom.

charleshoskinson

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any disagreement here charles?

If agreements can be fully defined and measured, then yes; however, this is a big if. Generally speaking meaning is a characteristic generic to the system itself thus requires human judgment to sort it all out.

Offline santaclause102

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At minute 9:05 you said "smart contracts are protocols that can verify and enforce agreements". As far as I know there is no protocol that can do that without the help of humans insofar as, if there is a disagreement that needs to be resolved, either a trusted third party or an oracle (only possible if the content of the contract can be quantified) has to "verify" what is right and enforce the contract or respectively tell the software to enforce it (give the funds stored in the contract to one of the parties). Do you see that any differently?
any disagreement here charles?

charleshoskinson

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Great talk Charles!

One thing I still dont get is this idea of putting property deeds on a blockchain (which you talked about in the talk). Blockchains are great for enforcing the rules of information transfer (such as domain names) and transactions etc, but how can they be used to govern what happens in the physical world? Even if the guy has his house deed on the blockchain, dont you still need the government to enforce that and evict squatters? And if i remember correctly, blockchains were invented to make make governments irrelevant.

Thanks and to go into more detail with your question, first blockchains are agnostic to the use case and philosophy. They were not invented to obsolete entity XYZ or expose corruption ABC rather they are just a specialized database that has strict rules on how entries are added and never permit deletion. The end result is a distributive, censorship resistance and high integrity database. Satoshi and others decided to apply this construct to currency, but as I mentioned it has been also applied to things like DNS and one can imagine many more use cases.

In respect to land deeds, its a layered problem. First, we have the issue of no breeder documents identifying people within the community. Generally this is done via testimony and familiarity. Such a system cannot scale, which is why governments get into the business of controlling ID documents such as passports, drivers licenses, state ID cards, etc. The hope is that we can build an identity system using a blockchain due to its unique benefits of censorship resistance and high integrity. Does a government have to follow this identity? No, however, the vast majority of those seeking identification are commercial interests (ever use a student ID for example?).

Second, we have the issue of the land itself. As I mentioned in the talk, this is an issue of proving occupancy and ownership in the event of a dispute between parties. For example, how can the government of Afghanistan prove Ahmed versus Mohammad rightfully owns the land? What if there is a multi-generation dispute? Storing registration on a blockchain produces a permanent, immutable living history of the lands occupants. Yes it is true that the government and the people do not have to follow the records, yet this is true for all land claims regardless of sovereignty. It's all about giving a better system for people to track ownership of assets that doesn't require a government to manage or be reliable. Rather they get involved after the fact when there is a dispute.   

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As for property rights management:  I contend that blockchain technology can only make property rights management more convenient but does not make it possible in the first place. Ahmed can register anything he wants in some blockchain, no once cares if there is no socially and/or forcefully enforced agreement (enforced by a state or the "local community" or or a security company) about what the basis for property rights is ("the law" or "the laws" for the libertarian version).
If we assume that it was enough if Ahmed proved that he once lived on the land in question before the war began in order to regain his land then he would still have problems proving that he lived there if there was no one else that verified it (anybody can make a entry in a decentralized database claiming all kinds of things). But I could see how that would work if it was combined with the reputation solution and many reputable individuals testify that he actually lived there. Overall this is possible today too (reputable individuals can testify in front of a local court/arbitrator), blockchain technology would just digitize it and scale it better.

I only had roughly 13 minutes so I couldn't cover something I really wanted to talk about that is private law. Most countries actually give people the right to decide both the legal system and the method of arbitration for commercial transactions. For example, I could enter into a contract living in New York with a man from Hong Kong and agree to follow Swiss law and arbitration. But one doesn't have to stop there. One can follow private legal systems such as Unidroit or even the middle ages Lex Mercatoria.

The reason why governments permit this degree of legal flexibility stems from trade. Shipping is a notorious industry with hundreds of years of maritime law and legions of international agreements that allow for remarkably complex private legal arrangements and arbitration. Tribal and religious law is another example permitting flexibility. The point of all of this discourse is to convey that the next evolution of our ecosystem will be to take private law and codify it into smart contracts using some language like E and make blockchains the arbitrator.

Courts should uphold the decisions as they meet the standards of international agreements on contracts and a blockchain arbitrator should meet all criterion for objectivity. Of course, this is still hypothetical; however, there are some good papers on how one can structure such things -> http://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/548/469.   

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Agree, I would just like to see the language to be more precise. It always sounds as if blockchain technology and smart contracts in particular can replace any human element.   

I rather believe that its another set of tools to aid us in building more fair and transparent relationships. Remember starting a company before legalzoom and rocketlawyer? You had to go to a third party and pay out the ass. Now you can spend a few hundred and have professionally written articles of incorporation and legal templates for everything from non-disclosure agreements to no complete clauses. As law becomes more digital, it should become more like software in that we'll have open source legal libraries and APIs that the community can rapidly iterate and refine.

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Alot of smart people are thinking ahead and ofcourse noone is smart enough to see that many steps ahead... but there is some substance there... that blockchain can completely cut out some people like notaries because of a reputation/voting system, but nonetheless it won't be without a big fight from the gov't which will think that it is untested thus can lean to anarchy. Prediction markets can cut out professionals as consultants for information.... there are just so many possibilities and it just takes the world of coders to use imaginations that they have an abundance of to harness in the right direction, funneled via blockchain tech which the genius of satoshi presented us.

I wish I could have covered provably fair elections as well. There is really a renaissance coming and it's really exciting to see it from the frontlines. 

Offline jsidhu

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That was a good presentation! Thanks for sharing it.

At minute 9:05 you said "smart contracts are protocols that can verify and enforce agreements". As far as I know there is no protocol that can do that without the help of humans insofar as, if there is a disagreement that needs to be resolved, either a trusted third party or an oracle (only possible if the content of the contract can be quantified) has to "verify" what is right and enforce the contract or respectively tell the software to enforce it (give the funds stored in the contract to one of the parties). Do you see that any differently?

As for property rights management:  I contend that blockchain technology can only make property rights management more convenient but does not make it possible in the first place. Ahmed can register anything he wants in some blockchain, no once cares if there is no socially and/or forcefully enforced agreement (enforced by a state or the "local community" or or a security company) about what the basis for property rights is ("the law" or "the laws" for the libertarian version).
If we assume that it was enough if Ahmed proved that he once lived on the land in question before the war began in order to regain his land then he would still have problems proving that he lived there if there was no one else that verified it (anybody can make a entry in a decentralized database claiming all kinds of things). But I could see how that would work if it was combined with the reputation solution and many reputable individuals testify that he actually lived there. Overall this is possible today too (reputable individuals can testify in front of a local court/arbitrator), blockchain technology would just digitize it and scale it better.
The blockchain is not corruptible thats the big difference.. essentially notaries are replaced by a reputation system.
Agree, I would just like to see the language to be more precise. It always sounds as if blockchain technology and smart contracts in particular can replace any human element.
Alot of smart people are thinking ahead and ofcourse noone is smart enough to see that many steps ahead... but there is some substance there... that blockchain can completely cut out some people like notaries because of a reputation/voting system, but nonetheless it won't be without a big fight from the gov't which will think that it is untested thus can lean to anarchy. Prediction markets can cut out professionals as consultants for information.... there are just so many possibilities and it just takes the world of coders to use imaginations that they have an abundance of to harness in the right direction, funneled via blockchain tech which the genius of satoshi presented us.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 07:06:04 pm by jsidhu »
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Offline santaclause102

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That was a good presentation! Thanks for sharing it.

At minute 9:05 you said "smart contracts are protocols that can verify and enforce agreements". As far as I know there is no protocol that can do that without the help of humans insofar as, if there is a disagreement that needs to be resolved, either a trusted third party or an oracle (only possible if the content of the contract can be quantified) has to "verify" what is right and enforce the contract or respectively tell the software to enforce it (give the funds stored in the contract to one of the parties). Do you see that any differently?

As for property rights management:  I contend that blockchain technology can only make property rights management more convenient but does not make it possible in the first place. Ahmed can register anything he wants in some blockchain, no once cares if there is no socially and/or forcefully enforced agreement (enforced by a state or the "local community" or or a security company) about what the basis for property rights is ("the law" or "the laws" for the libertarian version).
If we assume that it was enough if Ahmed proved that he once lived on the land in question before the war began in order to regain his land then he would still have problems proving that he lived there if there was no one else that verified it (anybody can make a entry in a decentralized database claiming all kinds of things). But I could see how that would work if it was combined with the reputation solution and many reputable individuals testify that he actually lived there. Overall this is possible today too (reputable individuals can testify in front of a local court/arbitrator), blockchain technology would just digitize it and scale it better.
The blockchain is not corruptible thats the big difference.. essentially notaries are replaced by a reputation system.
Agree, I would just like to see the language to be more precise. It always sounds as if blockchain technology and smart contracts in particular can replace any human element.