PTS升级与快照公告(第三方团队)

[ripplexiaoshan]

Please excuse me for interjecting here as I do not understand the comments that have not been translated to English. In response to the suggestion that PTS should be switched to a user-issued asset under BTS, I made the following points in another thread that I wish to share here:

* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a viable deflationary currency-DAC competitor to Bitcoin.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a viable sharedrop instrument for 3rd party DACs that have competitive overlap with BTS.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a useful resource for 3rd party developers seeking a reference implementation of the Bitshares Toolkit that can be easily forked and sharedropped (without all of the layers of functionality built atop it by BTS). See for example our new "import by signed message" functionality that is the 1st of its kind. PTS as a token would be divorced entirely from PTS as a development community and resource.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would, over time, narrow the demographic of PTS holders from being DAC-agnostic to being exclusively pro-BTS.

Thanks to all for the objective approach you have taken here.

Thanks for posting, alphaBar,

  Personally, I think DPOS PTS has more supporters than bitPTS, so I agree with all your points, and I wish the success of DPOS PTS. The main debate in the above posts are about the word"mandatory update". Due to language and culture difference, we think "mandatory" can only be used by 3I for official version, and that's why it caused a lot of confusion among the large number of common users in Chinese community. We don't want the results of DPOS PTS, whether it is a success of a failure, to affect 3I. So we conclude that both DPOS PTS and bitPTS are fair competitors and 3rd party DAC.

[alphaBar]

Please excuse me for interjecting here as I do not understand the comments that have not been translated to English. In response to the suggestion that PTS should be switched to a user-issued asset under BTS, I made the following points in another thread that I wish to share here:

* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a viable deflationary currency-DAC competitor to Bitcoin.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a viable sharedrop instrument for 3rd party DACs that have competitive overlap with BTS.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would not be a useful resource for 3rd party developers seeking a reference implementation of the Bitshares Toolkit that can be easily forked and sharedropped (without all of the layers of functionality built atop it by BTS). See for example our new "import by signed message" functionality that is the 1st of its kind. PTS as a token would be divorced entirely from PTS as a development community and resource.
* A user-issued asset under BTS would, over time, narrow the demographic of PTS holders from being DAC-agnostic to being exclusively pro-BTS.

Thanks to all for the objective approach you have taken here.

[BTSdac]

Hi cube,

  Sorry to modify the title of your post. I am in support of your work. However, the previous title is very misleading, according to the feedback of Chinese community. First of all ,PTS is 原型股 in Chinese, not 比特股，比特股is specifically for BTS. In addition, we believe that nothing is "mandatory" except that it is updated by 3I dev teams. DPOS version PTS should compete with other 3rd party versions of PTS, for example, bitPTS.
Please don't change the title back again, otherwise, I will lock the topic.

  Thanks for your understanding.


你好 cube,

很不好意思把你的帖子标题改掉。原标题是比特股PTS强制升级与快照公告。 这个标题非常有误导性，首先，BTS是比特股，PTS是原型股，你把这两个搞混了。其次，作为一个第三方DAC，它的升级不是强制的，应该是跟其他PTS的升级版，比如bitPTS公平竞争的，只有官方团队发布的产品才能够强制大家升级。

请尊重版规，不要再改回去，否则我会锁住帖子。

谢谢合作！

Hi ripplexiaoshan,

Firstly, let me apologise for the confusion caused by the poor translation of 'Bitshares PTS' to '比特股PTS'.  As you have pointed out, it should be 'PTS 原型股'.

PTS Upgrade has wide support, including that from I3.  We respect I3's wish to let the OLD PTS-POW to be 'switched off' and to be taken over by the new PTS-DPOS. This will avoid further confusion and possible scammers who could cheat unawared users by selling the old PTS-POW coins after PTS-DPOS goes LIVE.  The mandatory PTS Upgrade would achieve this goal.

With all due respect, I do not think I have broken any forum rules by keeping the original title of the same post in the English community.  The word 'mandatory' itself is neutral and has no association with any entities.  The English-community section accepts the original title in full while the Chinese-community section insists to change it.  The Bitshare forum in essence is engaging in double-standards. 

You are a highly-regarded BTS Chinese community leader. I appreciate you putting a formal request to the author.  I respect your wish and I would keep the changed title.

翻译:

ripplexiaoshan, 你好。

首先, 让我为因翻译不佳('Bitshares PTS' 翻译为 '比特股PTS') 而造成的混乱表示歉意。如你所指出的, 它应该是 "PTS原型股"。

PTS升级具有广泛的支持，包括I3。我们尊重I3的愿望，让PTS-POW '关闭'并让它被新PTS-DPOS替换。

这将避免进一步的混乱和骗子在PTS-DPOS实施后出售旧PTS-POW币(原型股)给不知晓的用户。PTS强制升级将实现这一目标。

与所有应有的尊重, 我不认为因为为了保持原有英文社区帖子的标题，这就打破了版规。'强制'-这个词本身是中性的,与任何实体没有关联。

英文社区论坛分节接受帖子完整的原题而中文社区节坚持要改变它。Bitshare论坛在本质上是搞双重标准。

你是一个备受推崇的BitShare中文社区领导者。我很感谢你正式请求笔者。我尊重你的愿望，我会保持改变的标题。

准确的说，这是一个BTS 的山寨， 一个完全空投给PTS 的山寨币，中文社区讨论了很久， 基本上大多数赞成这个结论。
 为什么不能说这是一次PTS的升级，你知道PTS的官方以前是III ，但III已经宣布放弃了PTS链，所以PTS是没有官方了，但为各自的利益或者其他动机，很多人都想复活PTS。有人总计出来6种版。
所以说任何版本都不能称为强制升级。
再者PTS在11.05快照后价格经历了一次低潮。所以任何不基于11.05的快照的版本，都让人怀疑他的动机。

[cube]

Hi cube,

  Sorry to modify the title of your post. I am in support of your work. However, the previous title is very misleading, according to the feedback of Chinese community. First of all ,PTS is 原型股 in Chinese, not 比特股，比特股is specifically for BTS. In addition, we believe that nothing is "mandatory" except that it is updated by 3I dev teams. DPOS version PTS should compete with other 3rd party versions of PTS, for example, bitPTS.
Please don't change the title back again, otherwise, I will lock the topic.

  Thanks for your understanding.


你好 cube,

很不好意思把你的帖子标题改掉。原标题是比特股PTS强制升级与快照公告。 这个标题非常有误导性，首先，BTS是比特股，PTS是原型股，你把这两个搞混了。其次，作为一个第三方DAC，它的升级不是强制的，应该是跟其他PTS的升级版，比如bitPTS公平竞争的，只有官方团队发布的产品才能够强制大家升级。

请尊重版规，不要再改回去，否则我会锁住帖子。

谢谢合作！

Hi ripplexiaoshan,

Firstly, let me apologise for the confusion caused by the poor translation of 'Bitshares PTS' to '比特股PTS'.  As you have pointed out, it should be 'PTS 原型股'.

PTS Upgrade has wide support, including that from I3.  We respect I3's wish to let the OLD PTS-POW to be 'switched off' and to be taken over by the new PTS-DPOS. This will avoid further confusion and possible scammers who could cheat unawared users by selling the old PTS-POW coins after PTS-DPOS goes LIVE.  The mandatory PTS Upgrade would achieve this goal.

With all due respect, I do not think I have broken any forum rules by keeping the original title of the same post in the English community.  The word 'mandatory' itself is neutral and has no association with any entities.  The English-community section accepts the original title in full while the Chinese-community section insists to change it.  The Bitshare forum in essence is engaging in double-standards. 

You are a highly-regarded BTS Chinese community leader. I appreciate you putting a formal request to the author.  I respect your wish and I would keep the changed title.

翻译:

ripplexiaoshan, 你好。

首先, 让我为因翻译不佳('Bitshares PTS' 翻译为 '比特股PTS') 而造成的混乱表示歉意。如你所指出的, 它应该是 "PTS原型股"。

PTS升级具有广泛的支持，包括I3。我们尊重I3的愿望，让PTS-POW '关闭'并让它被新PTS-DPOS替换。

这将避免进一步的混乱和骗子在PTS-DPOS实施后出售旧PTS-POW币(原型股)给不知晓的用户。PTS强制升级将实现这一目标。

与所有应有的尊重, 我不认为因为为了保持原有英文社区帖子的标题，这就打破了版规。'强制'-这个词本身是中性的,与任何实体没有关联。

英文社区论坛分节接受帖子完整的原题而中文社区节坚持要改变它。Bitshare论坛在本质上是搞双重标准。

你是一个备受推崇的BitShare中文社区领导者。我很感谢你正式请求笔者。我尊重你的愿望，我会保持改变的标题。

[cn-members]

BTS和PTS现在哪个叫比特股 ？

一直以来都是BTS叫比特股，PTS叫原型股。

Sorry for the confusion. "比特股 PTS" was a direct English-to-Chinese translation of 'Bitshares PTS'. My Chinese is not good. It should be '原型股'.

There are a lot of difference in English and Chinese .

Especially the "endorsement" that stan gave you was purely being supportive , but if translate into Chinese , it will be interpreted "PTS is still being maintained by Bitshares team " . That's why we want you to stress that this is a third party project .

When the western say support , they tend to say it as a good gesture . But when Chinese read it , there's a lot of room for interpretation .

We had a lot of confusion for the past few months due to the different tones and expressions between different languages , I don't think any new confusion would help anybody . So , that's why I strongly need you to make that clear and keep point out this is a "community member project" on the title .

Of course , as you may know already , if you can't get the facts straight , this forum is not the only place for different voices .
As the Chinese moderators , we're obligated to help the Chinese community understand the issue , so even if you tried to ignore this issue by changing the title , it won't help your cause . There are more people out there wants to hear the full story .

[lzr1900]

冠Bitshares的名字就不支持。就酱

[cube]

BTS和PTS现在哪个叫比特股 ？

一直以来都是BTS叫比特股，PTS叫原型股。

Sorry for the confusion. "比特股 PTS" was a direct English-to-Chinese translation of 'Bitshares PTS'. My Chinese is not good. It should be '原型股'.

翻译:

对不起,我的帖子造成混乱。 "比特股 PTS"是 "Bitshares PTS"直接的翻译。 我的中文不是很好。它应该是"原型股"。

[gyhy]

我感觉楼主，是想骗钱

[alt]

Hi cube,

  Sorry to modify the title of your post. I am in support of your work. However, the previous title is very misleading, according to the feedback of Chinese community. First of all ,PTS is 原型股 in Chinese, not 比特股，比特股is specifically for BTS. In addition, we believe that nothing is "mandatory" except that it is updated by 3I dev teams. DPOS version PTS should compete with other 3rd party versions of PTS, for example, bitPTS.
Please don't change the title back again, otherwise, I will remove it completely.

  Thanks for your understanding.


你好 cube,

很不好意思把你的帖子标题改掉。原标题是比特股PTS强制升级与快照公告。 这个标题非常有误导性，首先，BTS是比特股，PTS是原型股，你把这两个搞混了。其次，作为一个第三方DAC，它的升级不是强制的，应该是跟其他PTS的升级版，比如bitPTS公平竞争的，只有官方团队发布的产品才能够强制大家升级。

请尊重版规，不要再改回去，否则我会完全删除帖子。

谢谢合作！

支持。可以山寨，但不要误导，一定要写清楚，别出了问题用户都找bts社区背黑锅

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk

[ripplexiaoshan]

Hi cube,

  Sorry to modify the title of your post. I am in support of your work. However, the previous title is very misleading, according to the feedback of Chinese community. First of all ,PTS is 原型股 in Chinese, not 比特股，比特股is specifically for BTS. In addition, we believe that nothing is "mandatory" except that it is updated by 3I dev teams. DPOS version PTS should compete with other 3rd party versions of PTS, for example, bitPTS.
Please don't change the title back again, otherwise, I will lock the topic.

  Thanks for your understanding.


你好 cube,

很不好意思把你的帖子标题改掉。原标题是比特股PTS强制升级与快照公告。 这个标题非常有误导性，首先，BTS是比特股，PTS是原型股，你把这两个搞混了。其次，作为一个第三方DAC，它的升级不是强制的，应该是跟其他PTS的升级版，比如bitPTS公平竞争的，只有官方团队发布的产品才能够强制大家升级。

请尊重版规，不要再改回去，否则我会锁住帖子。

谢谢合作！

[ripplexiaoshan]

BTS和PTS现在哪个叫比特股 ？

一直以来都是BTS叫比特股，PTS叫原型股。

[geyu]

BTS和PTS现在哪个叫比特股 ？

[Stan]

The Chinese community has been integral to the success of PTS. We invite you to join us in growing the Bitshares ecosystem by building a strong, stable, and efficient PTS.

this project cannot delegate pts , because Miner pts always is existed in p2p network，no matter it die or live. but in many Chinese investor mind , pts had finished all task community give to，pts  was dead ，we accept this like all thing in our universe would die。but they have question:why pts is removed from exchange ,why pts is live again. removed from exchange is decided by exchange site, but it must acc. to information our community expressed .so I worry that our community would lose much honor in many Chinese mind. since price of pts was in period of low price after 11.05 .they think pts become non－ value and sold it at low price. make pts live again ,price was up. maybe I can understand it . but to normal investor without much information.in his mind just as :"pts was dead  they sold at low price。 after they sold pts is live price is up." we hurt them would hurt us finally.
so i am not interested with this project though I have some pts now. even I think name should not include PTS，this project should use other name.

Who did they sell to? 
Who lost and who gained in that trade? 
Was one side unfairly taking advantage of the other?
If so, which side?
All information was available to everyone.
We all watched the the thinking evolve in real time.
The community discussed it every step of the way.
And everyone made their own conclusions.

I think the most important issue here is to get the facts straighten up . The market need to hear a full story .

1、Do you , Stan ,  expect (honestly, not diplomatically ) there will be a valuable DAC like Play and Music in the future to air drop on DPOS PTS ?  Instead of some DAC that lack of long term plan and vision like Lottoshares ?

The whole reason people hold PTS in the first place is because they might get a bite from a valuable DAC , not just anything that drops 10% on their head .

2、Will I3 or AGS fund provide promotion , marketing and development fund to attract those developer out there to share drop on DPOS PTS ?   (simple answer , yes or no ).

3、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 claim responsibility for anything negative may cause by DPOS PTS ?

4、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 maintain this project even if it fails  ? (I'm not asking what the community would do to save it ) .

5、Do you think it's appropriate for us to address the market specifically that "DPOS PTS is not a I3 product and it's not being maintain by the Bitshares team and will not be given any financial support . The Bitshares team will not claim any formal responsibility for this DPOS PTS ."

It is true that PTS will not have that degree of support any more, but in some ways that may be good.  If I understand correctly, it is now being positioned as a neutral demographic of people who appreciate and understand DACs - one that any developer can feel comfortable honoring.  And it still has many advantages over all the first-generation altcoins out there, as I summarized here:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11877.msg159163#msg159163

right .... so can you think of a reason even at its prime days why PTS only attracted Lottoshares to drop on PTS for free (music,play,dns,vote don't count free because I3 and AGS gave them something in return , funds , promotions  )

Tons of alt-coins out there , only Lottoshares dropped  on PTS for free , and it wasn't even a decent drop (lock in period , most people haven't got the chance to access the balance )

Sparkle is giving 33% on initial supply to PTS 14/12/2014 https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=80.0

Ron Paul Money just gave 10% to PTS. They use 05/11 snapshot, but in future guys like this will drop on the active PTS https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848182.0

Also PTS is not just a sharedrop token now. PTS will also be a well distributed, no inflation, DPOS crypto-currency. That also has a value that a slow POW PTS didn't have.

Good point.  THE best pure currency from technology, performance and incumbency with a proven share drop record.  Lots of growth room from current price.   Other new entries can only dream of this strong of a starting position!

[Empirical1.1]

The Chinese community has been integral to the success of PTS. We invite you to join us in growing the Bitshares ecosystem by building a strong, stable, and efficient PTS.

this project cannot delegate pts , because Miner pts always is existed in p2p network，no matter it die or live. but in many Chinese investor mind , pts had finished all task community give to，pts  was dead ，we accept this like all thing in our universe would die。but they have question:why pts is removed from exchange ,why pts is live again. removed from exchange is decided by exchange site, but it must acc. to information our community expressed .so I worry that our community would lose much honor in many Chinese mind. since price of pts was in period of low price after 11.05 .they think pts become non－ value and sold it at low price. make pts live again ,price was up. maybe I can understand it . but to normal investor without much information.in his mind just as :"pts was dead  they sold at low price。 after they sold pts is live price is up." we hurt them would hurt us finally.
so i am not interested with this project though I have some pts now. even I think name should not include PTS，this project should use other name.

Who did they sell to? 
Who lost and who gained in that trade? 
Was one side unfairly taking advantage of the other?
If so, which side?
All information was available to everyone.
We all watched the the thinking evolve in real time.
The community discussed it every step of the way.
And everyone made their own conclusions.

I think the most important issue here is to get the facts straighten up . The market need to hear a full story .

1、Do you , Stan ,  expect (honestly, not diplomatically ) there will be a valuable DAC like Play and Music in the future to air drop on DPOS PTS ?  Instead of some DAC that lack of long term plan and vision like Lottoshares ?

The whole reason people hold PTS in the first place is because they might get a bite from a valuable DAC , not just anything that drops 10% on their head .

2、Will I3 or AGS fund provide promotion , marketing and development fund to attract those developer out there to share drop on DPOS PTS ?   (simple answer , yes or no ).

3、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 claim responsibility for anything negative may cause by DPOS PTS ?

4、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 maintain this project even if it fails  ? (I'm not asking what the community would do to save it ) .

5、Do you think it's appropriate for us to address the market specifically that "DPOS PTS is not a I3 product and it's not being maintain by the Bitshares team and will not be given any financial support . The Bitshares team will not claim any formal responsibility for this DPOS PTS ."

It is true that PTS will not have that degree of support any more, but in some ways that may be good.  If I understand correctly, it is now being positioned as a neutral demographic of people who appreciate and understand DACs - one that any developer can feel comfortable honoring.  And it still has many advantages over all the first-generation altcoins out there, as I summarized here:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11877.msg159163#msg159163

right .... so can you think of a reason even at its prime days why PTS only attracted Lottoshares to drop on PTS for free (music,play,dns,vote don't count free because I3 and AGS gave them something in return , funds , promotions  )

Tons of alt-coins out there , only Lottoshares dropped  on PTS for free , and it wasn't even a decent drop (lock in period , most people haven't got the chance to access the balance )

Sparkle is giving 33% on initial supply to PTS 14/12/2014 https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=80.0

Ron Paul Money just gave 10% to PTS. They use 05/11 snapshot, but in future guys like this will drop on the active PTS https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848182.0

Also PTS is not just a sharedrop token now. PTS will also be a well distributed, no inflation, DPOS crypto-currency. That also has a value that a slow POW PTS didn't have.

[cn-members]

The Chinese community has been integral to the success of PTS. We invite you to join us in growing the Bitshares ecosystem by building a strong, stable, and efficient PTS.

this project cannot delegate pts , because Miner pts always is existed in p2p network，no matter it die or live. but in many Chinese investor mind , pts had finished all task community give to，pts  was dead ，we accept this like all thing in our universe would die。but they have question:why pts is removed from exchange ,why pts is live again. removed from exchange is decided by exchange site, but it must acc. to information our community expressed .so I worry that our community would lose much honor in many Chinese mind. since price of pts was in period of low price after 11.05 .they think pts become non－ value and sold it at low price. make pts live again ,price was up. maybe I can understand it . but to normal investor without much information.in his mind just as :"pts was dead  they sold at low price。 after they sold pts is live price is up." we hurt them would hurt us finally.
so i am not interested with this project though I have some pts now. even I think name should not include PTS，this project should use other name.

Who did they sell to? 
Who lost and who gained in that trade? 
Was one side unfairly taking advantage of the other?
If so, which side?
All information was available to everyone.
We all watched the the thinking evolve in real time.
The community discussed it every step of the way.
And everyone made their own conclusions.

I think the most important issue here is to get the facts straighten up . The market need to hear a full story .

1、Do you , Stan ,  expect (honestly, not diplomatically ) there will be a valuable DAC like Play and Music in the future to air drop on DPOS PTS ?  Instead of some DAC that lack of long term plan and vision like Lottoshares ?

The whole reason people hold PTS in the first place is because they might get a bite from a valuable DAC , not just anything that drops 10% on their head .

2、Will I3 or AGS fund provide promotion , marketing and development fund to attract those developer out there to share drop on DPOS PTS ?   (simple answer , yes or no ).

3、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 claim responsibility for anything negative may cause by DPOS PTS ?

4、Will I3 or the active developers of I3 maintain this project even if it fails  ? (I'm not asking what the community would do to save it ) .

5、Do you think it's appropriate for us to address the market specifically that "DPOS PTS is not a I3 product and it's not being maintain by the Bitshares team and will not be given any financial support . The Bitshares team will not claim any formal responsibility for this DPOS PTS ."

It is true that PTS will not have that degree of support any more, but in some ways that may be good.  If I understand correctly, it is now being positioned as a neutral demographic of people who appreciate and understand DACs - one that any developer can feel comfortable honoring.  And it still has many advantages over all the first-generation altcoins out there, as I summarized here:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11877.msg159163#msg159163

right .... so can you think of a reason even at its prime days why PTS only attracted Lottoshares to drop on PTS for free (music,play,dns,vote don't count free because I3 and AGS gave them something in return , funds , promotions  )

Tons of alt-coins out there , only Lottoshares dropped  on PTS for free , and it wasn't even a decent drop (lock in period , most people haven't got the chance to access the balance )