Author Topic: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?  (Read 17437 times)

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Offline toast

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VB wrote somewhere that etherium can be used to create "layers" (or something hell i knew) of other coins on top of or in it,
is it true?

It can be used to create literally anything that computers can do, that's the point. The only question is whether its efficient enough on ethereum to be worth building there. Our market engine can't be easily replicated inside ethereum to work as well as ours without some critical changes.
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Offline Crossover

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VB wrote somewhere that etherium can be used to create "layers" (or something hell i knew) of other coins on top of or in it,
is it true?

Offline luckybit

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Hi all,

Ethereum (often considered a Bitshares alternative) is about to start something in 6 days / 25.1.2014... (see countdown at Main site: http://ethereum.org/ )
Do you think its better than bitshares? Why yes, why no?
Is it better to invest 100% in Ethereum instead of indirectly investing 1:10 (PTS share of bitshares is 10% only)
into bitshares right now? Can bitshares outperform ethereum by factor 10?
Really thinking about it where to invest and its a tough decision.. so whats your oppinion on that and why?


Whitepaper: http://vbuterin.com/ethereum.html
Forums: http://forum.ethereum.org/

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We will find out if Ethereum is released.
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Offline Crossover

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what features etherium has which BTS tools doesn't have?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 10:49:47 pm by Crossover »

Offline bytemaster

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Offline donkeypong

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Does it seem to anyone else that V-man and Hoskinson seem to be all over the place? Are they ever going to develop this Ethereum concept of theirs or just keep talking about it? And does anybody understand at this point where they're getting their funding?

You really believe behind the concept is V-man ??? Of course they have the advantage to talk 24 hours per day...  V-man=Satoshi Nakamoto 2.0 (or is it again the 1.0 rembranded)

KJV Matthew 7:15
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Whoever it is, they definitely are trying to brand V-man as the next Steve Jobs or Elon Musk visionary-genius. 

Offline liondani

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Does it seem to anyone else that V-man and Hoskinson seem to be all over the place? Are they ever going to develop this Ethereum concept of theirs or just keep talking about it? And does anybody understand at this point where they're getting their funding?

You really believe behind the concept is V-man ??? Of course they have the advantage to talk 24 hours per day...  V-man=Satoshi Nakamoto 2.0 (or is it again the 1.0 rembranded)

KJV Matthew 7:15
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Offline SatoshiFantasy

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Quote
Meanwhile, back at the bat cave, Bytemaster and their team are actually working on making a product and hoping that it will impress people enough to inspire competition in the space.

 +5% +5% +5% +5%

Offline fuzzy

Does it seem to anyone else that V-man and Hoskinson seem to be all over the place? Are they ever going to develop this Ethereum concept of theirs or just keep talking about it? And does anybody understand at this point where they're getting their funding?

This is precisely why there are many people being brought in behind the scenes.  Who knows who the hell these people really are...but they are apparently "insiders", which always has a tendency to bring and lock in talent.  They are creating a pageant..and the pageant is meant to get others to do the work for them.  Meanwhile, back at the bat cave, Bytemaster and their team are actually working on making a product and hoping that it will impress people enough to inspire competition in the space.

"Ether" is supposed to be "Petro to Bitcoin's Gold"--or so says their salesman Hosk.  It's definitely a nice feeling to see that one is not alone in their assessment of the possible conclusions. :)
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Offline donkeypong

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Looks like Vitalik is scheduled to talk to the Silicon Valley Ethereum groupies. http://www.meetup.com/EthereumSiliconValley/events/169053392/
The interesting part is that he's supposed to discuss several problems facing cryptos, including "every node must process every transaction". If I'm not mistaken, this scalability was a key point upon which Dan Larimer nailed him in that video clip from the Miami conference. Vitalik did not have a good answer ready then (probably because there isn't one). So now, either they have some solution to share or they are just addressing it because there's been enough negative feedback on this. I'm guessing it's the latter.

Does it seem to anyone else that V-man and Hoskinson seem to be all over the place? Are they ever going to develop this Ethereum concept of theirs or just keep talking about it? And does anybody understand at this point where they're getting their funding?

Offline JoeyD

I might be an idealist, but I have been burnt enough in the past to not be wary about the future or the dangers of human nature. I'm not deluding myself into thinking that Bitcoin will improve man or prevent wars or something like that. All I'm hoping for is that it can be an equalizer. I don't mind there being forest fires, just as long as new growth is allowed to happen. (And we don't have insane idiots thinking they can "win" if they blow up the entire planet if they are about to lose, with the means to do it as well.)

I've seen what monopolization (centralization) can and has done and how it murders innovation. I also have seen how they appeal to the lazy and Ethereum seems to target the "can't-be-bothered-to-figure-it-out"- and the "who's-backing-it"-market very specifically. I completely share your fear of centralization in hardware and especially in wetware.

My hope is that there will be more scripting-libraries in the short term that can interface with crypto-currencies and manage their own wallets, work on top of Bitcoin or any other coin/blockchain for that matter and make things like Ethereum practically irrelevant as long as it cannot offer something better. If their main goal is to have no features, that to my eyes that looks like they'll have no way to compete in an honest market.

Very short term I'm kind of dreading the arrival of Wall-Street. Here comes an army of uninterested who might just as well try to see how low they can go and milk the idealists trying to prop up the price of bitcoin. Why do so many bitcoin-speculators hail the coming of the Locusts, as if that could have no negative impact on bitcoin price and as if that would make bitcoin any more valuable or useful or guarantee an increase in price?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 10:23:12 am by JoeyD »

Offline fuzzy

Holy sh*....

Did I hear an echo?


I don't quite follow, did I double post or was this topic debated ad nauseam somewhere on this forum and I missed it?


I think fuznuts is referring to the post he made on page 3 that covers similar ground maybe? Don't know, anyway I liked both your posts.

I posted my 'conspiracy theory' about Ethereum on their Bitcointalk page early Feb, but I'll repost here, same sort of idea as you guys just a bit more 'out there'


Quote
Is this the Ethereum gameplan?

Hypothetical scenario

Right now in the US they are busy struggling with how best to regulate crypto-currencies.

These are the potential conclusions I think they will draw...

1. It is too hard to try to regulate the hundreds of crypto-currencies that are out there.
2. Banking compliance is a serious business and issuing bit-licenses and trying to monitor hundreds of new untrusted exchanges is not feasible.
3. Crypto-currencies have deflationary tendencies which run counter to most existing currencies.

The potential solution...

1. It might be possible to regulate 1 base crypto-currency on which other things can be built.
2. Only large existing retail/investment banks with sufficient experience in banking compliance can be trusted as exchanges.
3. A reasonably inflationary crypto-currency would be ideal.

How does Ethereum stack up?

1. Yes Ethereum could be the base crypto, lots of things can be built on top of it, but link back to it when you need to transfer out to fiat.
2. Large existing banks might already have an interest in Ethereum, there is a very large pre-mine, where is it going?
3. Ethereum is very inflationary.

Result...

'They' will decide Ethereum gives consumers the benefits of crypto-currencies while giving the regulators the ability to regulate it and  ensure there are as few bad actors as possible.

They will make it legal for on-line retailers to accept Ethereum as payment and they will make legal Ethereum to fiat exchanges, administered by large existing banks.
However moving to fiat or making online purchases with any other crypto-currency will be illegal.   

Some investment banks are incredibly powerful and influential with large global footprints, they will be able to help ensure this model is also adopted in many other countries. This could make Ethereum insurmountable

______________________________

This is only a hypothetical, but I came up with it because I thought the pre-mine and inflationary model was unattractive.
There's also not a lot of reason why people wouldn't fork Ethereum and create their own competing models with more attractive parameters. (less inflationary and no pre-mine.)

However Ethereum's inflationary model & large pre-mine (Which goes to?) would be appealing to TPTB.
By influencing regulations and laws in favour of Ethereum they could also ensure no competing models could threaten it.


Using this hypothesis, the way Ethereum is being approached starts to make a lot of sense.

Thoughts? 

Pretty on-point, except I openly say that could be an attempt to co-opt a decentralized renaissance and leash it to a central point of control (sounds absolutely scary to me).  So mine sounds less "rational" and more downright frustrated to those who have a tendency to think the world is a little nicer a place than I do.. 

We can all be idealistic about this technology, but there is no reason that I can think of why this kind of technology couldn't be built to become Centralization 2.0, where the "Empire" now has all the decentralized resilience that humanity once boasted as its primary means of combating corrupt regimes.

Really like the way you said it...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:01:46 am by fuznuts »
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Offline MolonLabe

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I understand why no one could have have developed a competing fork of Bitcoin (needing some coordination to bootstrap the project), but I don't understand why someone couldn't just develop a competing fork of Etherium. I don't see a network effect.

If its going to be an open source project, why not just wait for them to code it, then fork it into 'Free Etherium' (no organization, no premine, merged mining, bitcoin-coinbase-schedule, ppc-mining, etc)? People would only have to switch once.

It seems obvious to me.

Is there anyone who knows econ with the Etherium team?

Offline Empirical1

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Holy sh*....

Did I hear an echo?


I don't quite follow, did I double post or was this topic debated ad nauseam somewhere on this forum and I missed it?


I think fuznuts is referring to the post he made on page 3 that covers similar ground maybe? Don't know, anyway I liked both your posts.

I posted my 'conspiracy theory' about Ethereum on their Bitcointalk page early Feb, but I'll repost here, same sort of idea as you guys just a bit more 'out there'


Quote
Is this the Ethereum gameplan?

Hypothetical scenario

Right now in the US they are busy struggling with how best to regulate crypto-currencies.

These are the potential conclusions I think they will draw...

1. It is too hard to try to regulate the hundreds of crypto-currencies that are out there.
2. Banking compliance is a serious business and issuing bit-licenses and trying to monitor hundreds of new untrusted exchanges is not feasible.
3. Crypto-currencies have deflationary tendencies which run counter to most existing currencies.

The potential solution...

1. It might be possible to regulate 1 base crypto-currency on which other things can be built.
2. Only large existing retail/investment banks with sufficient experience in banking compliance can be trusted as exchanges.
3. A reasonably inflationary crypto-currency would be ideal.

How does Ethereum stack up?

1. Yes Ethereum could be the base crypto, lots of things can be built on top of it, but link back to it when you need to transfer out to fiat.
2. Large existing banks might already have an interest in Ethereum, there is a very large pre-mine, where is it going?
3. Ethereum is very inflationary.

Result...

'They' will decide Ethereum gives consumers the benefits of crypto-currencies while giving the regulators the ability to regulate it and  ensure there are as few bad actors as possible.

They will make it legal for on-line retailers to accept Ethereum as payment and they will make legal Ethereum to fiat exchanges, administered by large existing banks.
However moving to fiat or making online purchases with any other crypto-currency will be illegal.   

Some investment banks are incredibly powerful and influential with large global footprints, they will be able to help ensure this model is also adopted in many other countries. This could make Ethereum insurmountable

______________________________

This is only a hypothetical, but I came up with it because I thought the pre-mine and inflationary model was unattractive.
There's also not a lot of reason why people wouldn't fork Ethereum and create their own competing models with more attractive parameters. (less inflationary and no pre-mine.)

However Ethereum's inflationary model & large pre-mine (Which goes to?) would be appealing to TPTB.
By influencing regulations and laws in favour of Ethereum they could also ensure no competing models could threaten it.


Using this hypothesis, the way Ethereum is being approached starts to make a lot of sense.

Thoughts? 

Offline JoeyD

Holy sh*....

Did I hear an echo?

Echoo

I don't quite follow, did I double post or was this topic debated ad nauseam somewhere on this forum and I missed it?

Or have I accidentally landed in some text based adventure through some scifi twist of fate?
"l" to look at my surroundings.
"i" to inspect my inventory.
If I go "s" will things turn sour?
Can I press "L" to read my log and see what my goal is, is it the fabled Amulet of Yendor?

 :o , that could very well be a great marketing trick. Put an Amulet of Yendor equivalent in your DAC and lure all them adventurous treasure seekers who dream of obtaining the "almost" unobtainable.