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Offline Empirical1.1

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The end of POW approaches...
« on: December 25, 2014, 11:42:36 PM »

POW as we know is starting to look very lonely in the top 10 & BTC has been on a long general downtrend. LTC has been on a downtrend for ages and broke a big $100 million psychological barrier.
Ripple is centralised, with huge centralisation of stake, it has it's own market but it's not a decentralised alternative imo.

So two fantastic things are happening LTC is bringing itself within reach and POW as a whole is clearly dying.

So passing LTC will make us look very strong indeed.

I've been bullish on BTS, but definitely not a super-bull for a host of reasons that have resulted in BTS being significantly undervalued imo. The board is shaping up in BTS's favour and giving us a shot though imo.


« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 11:45:47 PM by Empirical1.1 »

Offline Ander

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2014, 11:46:06 PM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P
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Offline islandking

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2014, 11:57:25 PM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 12:35:44 AM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.



Offline Stan

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 01:19:25 AM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.

Sharedrops are given to the owners/customers of a competitor, not to the competitor. 
This is a valid concept that may or may not entice some of them away from the competitor.
(It hasn't really been tried yet except in some ancient discussion about DNS sharedropping on Namecoin users.)

In the case of DevShares, its intended customer base is DPOS developers and ecosystem partners, including those who may prefer the new PTS positioning as a "neutral" share drop target.  So naturally its sharedrop should be engineered to attract such customers wherever we can find them.  The only other airdroppable source of potential DPOS customers is PLAY and MUSIC.  I can see advantages to trying to motivate their developers to use the same test chain as well.  Standardization, cross-pollination of ideas, more testing on common code modules and continued code compatibility testing come to mind.

Many advantages, come to think of it.  Hmmmm....



 
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Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 01:55:27 AM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.

Sharedrops are given to the owners/customers of a competitor, not to the competitor. 
This is a valid concept that may or may not entice some of them away from the competitor.
(It hasn't really been tried yet except in some ancient discussion about DNS sharedropping on Namecoin users.)

In the case of DevShares, its intended customer base is DPOS developers and ecosystem partners, including those who may prefer the new PTS positioning as a "neutral" share drop target.  So naturally its sharedrop should be engineered to attract such customers wherever we can find them.  The only other airdroppable source of potential DPOS customers is PLAY and MUSIC.  I can see advantages to trying to motivate their developers to use the same test chain as well.  Standardization, cross-pollination of ideas, more testing on common code modules and continued code compatibility testing come to mind.

Many advantages, come to think of it.  Hmmmm....

BTS literally just paid millions of dollars to absorb PTS 39 days prior. I highly doubt they attracted many DPOS customers in 39 days and they have like 3 developers.

As it was something that effects BTS, done without shareholder consent & in favour of a competitor or customers of a competitor they feel they had just absorbed,  I'm pretty confident it will be overturned.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 01:56:59 AM by Empirical1.1 »

Offline Pheonike

Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 02:50:19 AM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.

Sharedrops are given to the owners/customers of a competitor, not to the competitor. 
This is a valid concept that may or may not entice some of them away from the competitor.
(It hasn't really been tried yet except in some ancient discussion about DNS sharedropping on Namecoin users.)

In the case of DevShares, its intended customer base is DPOS developers and ecosystem partners, including those who may prefer the new PTS positioning as a "neutral" share drop target.  So naturally its sharedrop should be engineered to attract such customers wherever we can find them.  The only other airdroppable source of potential DPOS customers is PLAY and MUSIC.  I can see advantages to trying to motivate their developers to use the same test chain as well.  Standardization, cross-pollination of ideas, more testing on common code modules and continued code compatibility testing come to mind.

Many advantages, come to think of it.  Hmmmm....
If other developers have chosen dpos to use for their project then they have shown that they are interested in developing dpos. Assuming they open source their code then we can can evaluate it and decide if its worth adding to bts. If they don't open source it then they don't have an interest in helping bts anyway.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 03:25:02 AM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.

I'm with you both on this. Leave PTS behind and focus on building this (BitShares) ecosystem.

Offline cube

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 01:49:31 PM »

Sharedrops are given to the owners/customers of a competitor, not to the competitor. 
This is a valid concept that may or may not entice some of them away from the competitor.
(It hasn't really been tried yet except in some ancient discussion about DNS sharedropping on Namecoin users.)

In the case of DevShares, its intended customer base is DPOS developers and ecosystem partners, including those who may prefer the new PTS positioning as a "neutral" share drop target.  So naturally its sharedrop should be engineered to attract such customers wherever we can find them.  The only other airdroppable source of potential DPOS customers is PLAY and MUSIC.  I can see advantages to trying to motivate their developers to use the same test chain as well.  Standardization, cross-pollination of ideas, more testing on common code modules and continued code compatibility testing come to mind.

Many advantages, come to think of it.
  Hmmmm....

Now. That is thinking BIG.   +5%
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Offline islandking

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 01:58:17 PM »
Sell your PTS, buy some BTS, and release your video. :P

 +5% We all need to be on the same team for this to be extremely successful.

By analogy, I think it's fine for shareholders to have positions in and support multiple companies and even direct competitors.

But I don't think it's OK to give 33% equity to a competitor in anything without shareholder approval though. Especially, when said shareholders have just paid a fortune to buy out said competitor.

I'm with you both on this. Leave PTS behind and focus on building this (BitShares) ecosystem.

Yes please let PTS die like it should have. We paid millions during the merger so PTS should no longer be included in anything. I am confident that the shareholders are going to revolt against anyone supporting PTS through sharedrops.
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Offline alphaBar

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 03:40:34 PM »
Yes please let PTS die like it should have. We paid millions during the merger so PTS should no longer be included in anything. I am confident that the shareholders are going to revolt against anyone supporting PTS through sharedrops.

What you are implying (that the merger was a "buyout") is simply a distortion of some early draft proposals. Stan and Dan have both consistently stated that PTS and the social consensus will live on. This anti-diversity view is bizarre and hurtful to BTS, which depends on the success of DPoS to gain wide adoption. We, as a community, should be glad to own the most advanced crypto-coin (BTS) PLUS a share in all future DPoS implementations (via AGS/PTS and the social consensus).

Offline liondani

Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 03:48:27 PM »
Yes please let PTS die like it should have. We paid millions during the merger so PTS should no longer be included in anything. I am confident that the shareholders are going to revolt against anyone supporting PTS through sharedrops.

What you are implying (that the merger was a "buyout") is simply a distortion of some early draft proposals. Stan and Dan have both consistently stated that PTS and the social consensus will live on. This anti-diversity view is bizarre and hurtful to BTS, which depends on the success of DPoS to gain wide adoption. We, as a community, should be glad to own the most advanced crypto-coin (BTS) PLUS a share in all future DPoS implementations (via AGS/PTS and the social consensus).
I must agree that what you are saying make sense...

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Offline nomoreheroes7

Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 05:13:24 PM »
Yes please let PTS die like it should have. We paid millions during the merger so PTS should no longer be included in anything. I am confident that the shareholders are going to revolt against anyone supporting PTS through sharedrops.

What you are implying (that the merger was a "buyout") is simply a distortion of some early draft proposals. Stan and Dan have both consistently stated that PTS and the social consensus will live on. This anti-diversity view is bizarre and hurtful to BTS, which depends on the success of DPoS to gain wide adoption. We, as a community, should be glad to own the most advanced crypto-coin (BTS) PLUS a share in all future DPoS implementations (via AGS/PTS and the social consensus).

Whether or not these are just reflective of the ideas expressed in the proposals, the problem is that myself and I assume many others were under the impression that what the  second sharedrop to PTS and AGS was for was to ultimately buy out PTS and AGS for their features (including having BTS be the new sharedrop target for third parties as well). I was here all through the merger fiasco and not once did I think things would turn out like this, because it wasn't clearly communicated. I can almost guarantee there are many of us who would have strongly opposed the 14% sharedrop inflation to PTS and AGS if we would've known that PTS was gonna continue competing against us and steal resources/spotlight/community etc.

Offline alphaBar

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 05:33:57 PM »

Whether or not these are just reflective of the ideas expressed in the proposals, the problem is that myself and I assume many others were under the impression that what the  second sharedrop to PTS and AGS was for was to ultimately buy out PTS and AGS for their features (including having BTS be the new sharedrop target for third parties as well). I was here all through the merger fiasco and not once did I think things would turn out like this, because it wasn't clearly communicated. I can almost guarantee there are many of us who would have strongly opposed the 14% sharedrop inflation to PTS and AGS if we would've known that PTS was gonna continue competing against us and steal resources/spotlight/community etc.

PTS is not a competitor to BTS and certainly nobody is "stealing resources" (that's not how open source software works). They are completely different tokens directed towards different applications. BTS is a feature-rich DAC that is intended to disrupt a variety of industries, while PTS is a DAC-agnostic sharedrop token that could never compete with BTS on features or development. No crypto-coin in history has EVER been displaced by a copycat clone or a token with a subset of its features. Other DACs will exist whether we want them to or not. PTS ensures that we get a stake in all of those tokens, many of which will be doing things that BTS doesn't desire to do (see Music for example). It is true that 3rd party DACs (not PTS) will compete with Bitshares and that some of them may be successful despite our wishes. PTS ensures that we own a stake in those tokens too. It is not a zero-sum game. We are not losing anything by holding both the vanilla DPoS sharedrop token (PTS) and the Ferrari of DACs (BTS). Killing one will not increase the value of the other, but having them both will probably lead to some synergy. This is the same reason why Toyota created Lexus, Honda created Acura, etc, etc, etc. They are directed towards different applications (not competitors), and yet they both promote the same underlying technology (DPoS).

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: The end of POW approaches...
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM »
Quote
PTS is not a competitor to BTS and certainly nobody is "stealing resources" (that's not how open source software works). They are completely different tokens directed towards different applications. BTS is a feature-rich DAC that is intended to disrupt a variety of industries, while PTS is a DAC-agnostic sharedrop token that could never compete with BTS on features or development. No crypto-coin in history has EVER been displaced by a copycat clone or a token with a subset of its features. Other DACs will exist whether we want them to or not. PTS ensures that we get a stake in all of those tokens, many of which will be doing things that BTS doesn't desire to do (see Music for example). It is true that 3rd party DACs (not PTS) will compete with Bitshares and that some of them may be successful despite our wishes. PTS ensures that we own a stake in those tokens too. It is not a zero-sum game. We are not losing anything by holding both the vanilla DPoS sharedrop token (PTS) and the Ferrari of DACs (BTS). Killing one will not increase the value of the other, but having them both will probably lead to some synergy. This is the same reason why Toyota created Lexus, Honda created Acura, etc, etc, etc. They are directed towards different applications (not competitors), and yet they both promote the same underlying technology (DPoS).

well said  +5%

 

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