Author Topic: We need more delegates for marketing  (Read 6997 times)

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sumantso

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At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

Its why I have cooled on the idea of running a BTCtalk sig campaign. Matt said he could spare 10% of a delegate pay, but I calculated its hardly enough to make a dent. I might still start it up later, but currently promoting by bumping threads and getting discussion going seems to be better.

Sadly, we don't have the money to go in swinging and grab attention. AGS funds could've been used but its gone now and we have to move on.

sumantso

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Cross posting from Nullstreet, I hope the dev team considers it:

Quote from: 4239:@HPEnvy
I dont care if I dont see a penny. As a marketing department, we should have at least 10 delegates to do what's necessary. Free work will only work for so long. The fact we can't seem to vote in any other delegates made me diversify holdings for now.

Maybe set up a donation fund and see if it can complement the dilution income? I worked with Worldcoin earlier and it was run entirely off donations. Granted the work done was nowhere near what we would expect to be done for Bitshares, but still it may help.

Regarding the other issues, please try to pitch to BM the benefit of separation of employees and block producers. I would like to see a page in my wallet which shows the various projects and the amount they are asking, and at the top I will see a bar showing how much money I have to spend (like a game). I can then allot it to the various projects/individuals accordingly and even tip volunteers (like, say, Fuzzy). I can either do it manually or click on recommended lists provided by other members.

I think it will make the whole pay structure flexible and allow for not only going above the individual caps if necessary, but also pay for short term projects and bounties without touching the block producing aspect. I see there is a suggestion for using Riverhead, that is a problem as he already runs two delegates.

Offline gamey

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Gamey i didn't wanted to lecture you! I just wanted to say, that at least the community should use different words.

Inflation is - you get nothing back!
Hiring people with increasing the sharebase is ? I don't know the right word, but maybe we should think about it!

We could see as example the BTS as an Startup and we have 101 Fundingrounds for our investors. Our investors are not contributing money, but time. Time they should spend to create value for us.

We are hiring and paying with new created funds.

We are doing constant fundingrounds daily. I think we have to invent a new word for this kind of blockchain/shares.

We are paying our employees with company shares :D

I'm just super cranky lately.  Honestly I am not sure why.  I'm not the most patient of people and it has been showing lately.

While I agree with you and like this thread.. I'd rather stick with how to get the most out of our delegate pay so I become irritated/frustrated too quickly... sigh

I'll try to stop using inflation because although the word doesn't register with me as a bad thing, it will with others and my usage does  promote using it elsewhere.  In fact I'm sure I use it elsewhere also, so I'll take your suggestion.
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Offline matt608

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matt, you can include on the left side of the post your delegate, maybe this will help to get more attention. In fact anyone who is supporting you can do it. I did it with monsterer!

Done, thanks for the tip.

Offline Shentist

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Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

matt, you can include on the left side of the post your delegate, maybe this will help to get more attention. In fact anyone who is supporting you can do it. I did it with monsterer!

Offline Shentist

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I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Thank you for the lecture, but I don't think it matters what we call it in threads like this.  Ok.. no inflation.. dilution.. whatever

I didn't say it was a reason, I was just pointing out that it would be a shame if that is the case.  Although it will at least pay the core developers something for their continued support which is absolutely critical.

This is partially why things like this never go anywhere, people get sidetracked on bullshit.

Gamey i didn't wanted to lecture you! I just wanted to say, that at least the community should use different words.

Inflation is - you get nothing back!
Hiring people with increasing the sharebase is ? I don't know the right word, but maybe we should think about it!

We could see as example the BTS as an Startup and we have 101 Fundingrounds for our investors. Our investors are not contributing money, but time. Time they should spend to create value for us.

We are hiring and paying with new created funds.

We are doing constant fundingrounds daily. I think we have to invent a new word for this kind of blockchain/shares.

We are paying our employees with company shares :D

Offline gamey

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Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

+5% 

I also agree about someone helping bytemaster get the word out there is more effective than ads on crypto sites. 

Although Argentina and other  global hotspots having a currency crisis might have value in ads.

It would also be nice to hear what Agent86 is doing so we can avoid blatant overlap.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Xeldal

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At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

I would have no problem with 5 100%'s going to a highly professional/skill/trusted/established/verifiable marketing team, but I agree with you that at this point most of what will get done is via word of mouth, small motivated groups willing to work for peanuts either because they love it or are already heavily invested and have much to gain by doing the work. 

Myself, I'm looking into putting together one of these small teams and intent to fund it entirely myself until I've got something to show for it.  We are still early in getting big capital eyes interest in taking one of these 101 seats.  The way I see it, for anyone with even the slightest wherewithal to do it, its a huge opportunity to jump in there and establish yourself.  If bitshares moves where we all hope it will, the effort and money you expend now will pay off massively in the future.  ... or maybe it won't, but that's the risk we're taking for what could be a great reward.  Even if its not a delegate position, this space is full of opportunity, but it doesn't suit everyone's risk apatite.

Offline matt608

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Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

Offline gamey

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I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Thank you for the lecture, but I don't think it matters what we call it in threads like this.  Ok.. no inflation.. dilution.. whatever

I didn't say it was a reason, I was just pointing out that it would be a shame if that is the case.  Although it will at least pay the core developers something for their continued support which is absolutely critical.

This is partially why things like this never go anywhere, people get sidetracked on bullshit.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 09:54:38 pm by gamey »
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Offline Shentist

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At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

we are talking about 2 different things. I think it is to early to pay for advertisment, in fact i am against paying advertisment. It will give not enough back. What we need are persons who will get Bytemaster interviews, will get us links on webpages etc. this is done for "free" but you have to pay this guy. In the past i expected Brian doing this kind of job, but i was wrong.

So now we need someone who will do this and coordinate the community efforts.

Offline Shentist

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I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Ggozzo

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At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

Offline gamey

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I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Shentist

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I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!