How to make payroll without multiple delegates per developer

[liondani]

Going to sell your BTS?

Please calm all down...
It is obvious we are witnessing times of depression... that times are not optimal to sell to say the least (most times )...  tonyk cares for the project like we do (maybe more) so we should read "behind" the  lines and take his messages  serious into consideration.  Not because he is (or not) absolutely right! But because many supporters feels like he did the last couple of weeks  ...   I hope we will find solutions on existing problems before we take off(?), since it will be more difficult for  the majority of us to  admit/recognize them when we have reached double or triple market caps compared to now ... 



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[luckybit]

I support core developers making six figures, and I support a single person running several 100% delegates whenever it is required. (or runs their own delegate and gets others to run support delegates)

But strategically I think right now a bad time to begin negotiating salary. It's a debate that is most definitely required in the near future, but can it wait until we have a working full node, a working lightweight client, and a working mobile wallet?

Great points Rune/Luckybit!
The best time to negotiate their salaries is after they have left!

They are 2 for a buck!
Let's have our ducks ready first. Then we start searching for them!


I think the total amount of stupidity has reached its critical mass....so, you do not need me, I guess. 

Bye, idiots of all kinds!
 

Going to sell your BTS?

[kao]

- 3Mil BTS bonus for Stan, for posting obscure and/or condescending comments on the forum.

... add to that a 100% delegate.

Costliest memes I've ever seen.

[sumantso]

- 3Mil BTS bonus for Stan, for posting obscure and/or condescending comments on the forum.

... add to that a 100% delegate.

Costliest memes I've ever seen.

[zerosum]

I support core developers making six figures, and I support a single person running several 100% delegates whenever it is required. (or runs their own delegate and gets others to run support delegates)

But strategically I think right now a bad time to begin negotiating salary. It's a debate that is most definitely required in the near future, but can it wait until we have a working full node, a working lightweight client, and a working mobile wallet?

Great points Rune/Luckybit!
The best time to negotiate their salaries is after they have left!

They are 2 for a buck!
Let's have our ducks ready first. Then we start searching for them!


I think the total amount of stupidity has reached its critical mass....so, you do not need me, I guess. 

Bye, idiots of all kinds!
 

[luckybit]

I support core developers making six figures, and I support a single person running several 100% delegates whenever it is required. (or runs their own delegate and gets others to run support delegates)

But strategically I think right now a bad time to begin negotiating salary. It's a debate that is most definitely required in the near future, but can it wait until we have a working full node, a working lightweight client, and a working mobile wallet?

[Stan]

Total salary paid was just over 50K which was not all wasted unless you assume that he contributed nothing, which is not true.  Alas, the bigger loss is the elapsed time and opportunity cost.
 

[toast]

15 Mil BTS and 100K annual pay for the marketing guy that did nothing.......

God,Finally I found the reason why the price of bts keeps going down and why we are running out of ags FUND

Brian is not getting anu of those bts.

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[deer]

15 Mil BTS and 100K annual pay for the marketing guy that did nothing.......

God,Finally I found the reason why the price of bts keeps going down and why we are running out of ags FUND

[onceuponatime]

Those developers who don't actually believe that the work they and their peers are accomplishing is going to make the market cap of bitshares (and thus their pay) at least double in the next few months should probably move on to a project they do believe in.

[liondani]

I will said it again. Problems like this can be solved if we go with the max dilution possible 50 BTS per block from the beginning !!!
BUT it must be given to delegates with fairness  and somehow we must be confident that these funds will give really value to the project and will not get wasted....

Let's hard-code payrates of delegates depended on a)votes !!!

for example right now delegate 101 gets 7.7% of votes and delegate number 1 gets 15%. I didn't do the maths but let's assume that the average % is at 9%.... that would mean that all 9% delegates will take 50 BTS per block and the 15% delegate takes 75 BTS per block and the total BTS per block for all would average to 50 BTS per delegate....

or hard code payrates depended of b) delegate place...
delegate 101 takes 1 BTS per block, 100 takes 2 BTS/block ,  ......  delegate 1 takes 100 BTS per block for a total average for 50BTS / block again...

So we don't waste time to campaign for new delegate with new payrates and new names and the market will push the best delegates to the first spots
I think it is very simple  for anybody to understand that. And we will make good use of every penny that we could abstract from bitshares dilution. Like you said all the power of self funding from the beginning!!! Don't underestimate ethereum and other projects! Don't allow to get on a situation where the competitors will develop with full power/efficiency and we are still rying to get more delegates with 100% payrate elected... It is a waste of valuable time, and even if we have elected  a lot of 100% payrate delegates soon enough, how much time will we loose to re evaluate their contributions and then  proposing each other  new payrates and new campaigns to unvote overpriced delegates, and new campaigns to upvote them again with new delegate name and new payrate etc..? It will be a big mess !!!  We will loose control nad time! I think it is crucial to make changes like this, it will make the network much more efficient...

[fluxer555]

- 3Mil BTS bonus for Stan, for posting obscure and/or condescending comments on the forum.

I love Stan, but I do agree this is grossly in excess.

[mitao]

I am sorry, but this kind of legalistic penny pinching will kill BTS and hurt morale.   
Incentives are aligned

Sure, "incentives are aligned" 

I will be as honest as possible (as always). I was virtually searching for the final straw, to divest at least 1/3 from my favorite project...

- 15 Mil BTS and 100K annual pay for the marketing guy that did nothing...The incentives are aligned. 


- 500-700 K USD for the marketing guy, cause he is 'VOTE' and the next better thing than BTS... (but do not worry he is not getting 2K/mo. delegate, so he is OK).

- 3Mil BTS bonus for Stan, for posting obscure and/or condescending comments on the forum.

- 3Mil BTS bonus for Agent86 for almost finishing an article in 45 days; [striving for the most expensive piece of literature I guess]


- as far as developers go.... well drltc will need 4 delegates voted in to get a fair compensation, after Feb15th. That of course was needed for no other reason but to  get all of the above 'greater good' achieved!



If this is not example of 'The incentives are aligned', I really do not know what is!

Yep, the incentives are aligned. Lol

[Empirical1.1]

I support core developers making six figures, and I support a single person running several 100% delegates whenever it is required. (or runs their own delegate and gets others to run support delegates)

But strategically I think right now a bad time to begin negotiating salary. It's a debate that is most definitely required in the near future, but can it wait until we have a working full node, a working lightweight client, and a working mobile wallet?

It's a strategically bad time for BitShares but a strategically good time for him. Straight after receiving the bonus but before 1.0

[toast]

I don't like creating complexity when such simple work arounds are in place.

You are trading off code complexity for social complexity. I prefer code complexity.

Your opinion on this would have more weight if you participated in code maintainance.

I oppose anu strategy that requires protocol changes for several more months.

Multiple delegates are OK but we need to do housekeeping / optimization before anyone gets dupes

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