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Offline fluxer555

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The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« on: January 03, 2015, 07:37:12 AM »

It has been brought to attention in numerous other threads that it seems that Stan is being overcompensated for his contributions. I am starting this thread so that Stan, the devs, and shareholders can share their opinions, and their interpretation of the facts.

Now let me be clear, I love Stan. What mainly concerns me is that Stan is getting paid as much as a full-time dev. He was even listed in the same group, as if he was in fact a dev:

(Thread titled 'Year End Developer Bonuses')
Toast, Nathan, Valentine, Vikram, Stan, and James Caffe, Dan N.  (all of whom have 100% pay delegates) have received 3M BTS severance / bonus from Invictus

This is not meant to be an attack, but rather an opportunity for shareholders and employees to discuss fair compensation.

Questions:

What contributions has Stan made so far that qualify him to be worth as much as a full-time dev?
What is Stan currently doing that qualifies him to be paid $300 a day?
Is it worth 3 million BTS to incentivize Stan to keep doing whatever it is that he is doing?
What incentives do shareholders have to vote for Stan? (What would we lose if Stan stopped whatever it is that he is doing?)

Shareholders, please ask your questions civilly.
Stan, please provide us with your reasonable answers.
Everyone, let us come to our own informed conclusions and vote accordingly.
BTS: flux-tips

Offline onceuponatime

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2015, 08:03:50 AM »
There are a few negative people on this forum bound and determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

This project is a marathon, not a sprint.

Stan is a founder and leader of this project. His leadership has been and continues to be what has driven this project on, overcoming an enormous number of hurdles that we have had to overcome, and encouraging the innovations that have had to be invented and implemented.

Quitters gonna quit. Some people fear success more than failure. I have seen it over and over again in my life.

Leadership is perhaps the essence of a successful project, and without it all of the other contributions come to nothing. Stan fulfills that role, and deserves compensation.

Recall the assholes who drove Steve Jobs out of Apple because they thought they knew better - then after they had run Apple into the ground they had to bring him back because he was the one with vision.  Don't repeat their mistake.

Online 天籁

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 08:10:17 AM »
Support Stan!
BTS account: disneyland
PLAY account: playone

Offline hpenvy2

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2015, 08:14:59 AM »
I'm confused by the reaction. OP asked a legit question in a very professional manner.

Offline graffenwalder

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2015, 08:23:24 AM »
Maybe I've missed some things lately. But how did you come up with the $300 dollar a day salary?


Offline onceuponatime

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 08:31:23 AM »
I'm confused by the reaction. OP asked a legit question in a very professional manner.

"It has been brought to attention in numerous other threads"
 by whom? List them and their contributions to this project.

"He was even listed in the same group, as if he was in fact a dev"
Devs are very skilled and highly valuable persons. So is a leader (CEO). Did you get my reference to Steve Jobs? Do you think he did much coding?

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2015, 08:32:51 AM »
All paid delegates are going to have to get used to the fact they need to be more transparent in what they are specifically developing and the value they are adding to the network going forward.

Offline lovejoy

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 08:40:02 AM »
What's the worth of Laozi's contribution to the Dao De Jing?

Thirty spokes meet at a nave;
Because of the hole we may use the wheel.
Clay is moulded into a vessel;
Because of the hollow we may use the cup.
Walls are built around a hearth;
Because of the doors we may use the house.
Thus tools come from what exists,
But use from what does not.



Offline hpenvy2

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 08:49:00 AM »
I'm confused by the reaction. OP asked a legit question in a very professional manner.

"It has been brought to attention in numerous other threads"
 by whom? List them and their contributions to this project.

"He was even listed in the same group, as if he was in fact a dev"
Devs are very skilled and highly valuable persons. So is a leader (CEO). Did you get my reference to Steve Jobs? Do you think he did much coding?

I think you are somehow confusing my statement with the OP. I'm not interesting in playing fallacy bingo. Given the post about the 3M bts bonus, I was simply stating the OP question is legit. You have a shareholder asking about the duties of the project lead, in what alternate universe is that not acceptable?

Look through the threads, countless snide comments about what Stan accomplishes. I'm thankful that the OP asked and Stan can give a solid answer we can all reference in the future. I don't care about philosophical debates about Steve Jobs contribution, I just want to hear the answer to a question that's referenced time and time again. Nothing more, I'm not nearly as emotionally invested as others.

Offline lovejoy

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 09:17:01 AM »
For the record, I'm all for transparency in this, and the OP really was a reasonable request.  For me it's more about the timing, and the context. In kung fu, timing is everything. :)

In an evening on the forums filled with seemingly endless threads marbled with the toxic veins of scarcity consciousness, it's been pushing the limits of my pitchfork meter, so I reach for levity. 


Offline BTS007

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 09:29:09 AM »
Support Stan! +5% +5%
BTS ID:bts007

Offline onceuponatime

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 09:41:27 AM »
I'm confused by the reaction. OP asked a legit question in a very professional manner.

"It has been brought to attention in numerous other threads"
 by whom? List them and their contributions to this project.

"He was even listed in the same group, as if he was in fact a dev"
Devs are very skilled and highly valuable persons. So is a leader (CEO). Did you get my reference to Steve Jobs? Do you think he did much coding?

I think you are somehow confusing my statement with the OP. I'm not interesting in playing fallacy bingo. Given the post about the 3M bts bonus, I was simply stating the OP question is legit. You have a shareholder asking about the duties of the project lead, in what alternate universe is that not acceptable?

Look through the threads, countless snide comments about what Stan accomplishes. I'm thankful that the OP asked and Stan can give a solid answer we can all reference in the future. I don't care about philosophical debates about Steve Jobs contribution, I just want to hear the answer to a question that's referenced time and time again. Nothing more, I'm not nearly as emotionally invested as others.

Alright, I think I see your points.

However to me it seems that you are looking for quantifiable and measurable objectives in an area where that is not feasible. How do you objectively measure vision, maturity, guidance, leadership? Shareholders must determine that for themselves. My determination is that Stan has been critical to keeping up enthusiasm and guiding this project over many hurdles. He has also been instrumental in setting the course.

Many shareholders who were hoping for quick gains have become discouraged by the lack of growth in market cap. That will come if we stay the course. It may even come soon, but it will come because we didn't give up.

I voted for Stan's delegate. I am free to withdraw my vote at anytime, as are you and all shareholders. I know that you don't like my reference to Steve Jobs, but that's too bad. I find it appropriate. He was voted out and the company went into a tailspin. When he was brought back, Apple thrived. Jobs was a visionary.

Choose wisely.

Offline .yoshi

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 09:59:12 AM »
Quote
What contributions has Stan made so far that qualify him to be worth as much as a full-time dev?

I would love to see some well reasoned responses to this question from the pro-Stan camp.

In the year and some odd months I've been following these forums, Stan has:

- Thrown together a handful of half baked newsletters, often well past their promised deadlines.
- Performed many PR blunders on the forums, mostly through poor communication. I have seen Stan create several threads where he puts his foot directly in his mouth, only to spend the next 5+ pages of the topic failing to mitigate the damage he's caused.
- Flown to a few conferences

To his credit, he has stopped making empty promises (for the most part) and has restricted himself to the role Forum Cheerleader as of late. No doubt an improvement, but hardly worth a 45k bonus.

Any evidence of Stan's valuable contributions in his "Operations" role would be greatly appreciated and a pleasant surprise, I'm sure, to many readers of this forum.

Offline .yoshi

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Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2015, 10:04:48 AM »
What hurdles has Stan guided Bitshares through??

Offline luckybit

Re: The worth of Stan's contribution to BitShares
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2015, 10:17:54 AM »
It has been brought to attention in numerous other threads that it seems that Stan is being overcompensated for his contributions. I am starting this thread so that Stan, the devs, and shareholders can share their opinions, and their interpretation of the facts.

Now let me be clear, I love Stan. What mainly concerns me is that Stan is getting paid as much as a full-time dev. He was even listed in the same group, as if he was in fact a dev:

(Thread titled 'Year End Developer Bonuses')
Toast, Nathan, Valentine, Vikram, Stan, and James Caffe, Dan N.  (all of whom have 100% pay delegates) have received 3M BTS severance / bonus from Invictus

This is not meant to be an attack, but rather an opportunity for shareholders and employees to discuss fair compensation.

Questions:

What contributions has Stan made so far that qualify him to be worth as much as a full-time dev?
What is Stan currently doing that qualifies him to be paid $300 a day?
Is it worth 3 million BTS to incentivize Stan to keep doing whatever it is that he is doing?
What incentives do shareholders have to vote for Stan? (What would we lose if Stan stopped whatever it is that he is doing?)

Shareholders, please ask your questions civilly.
Stan, please provide us with your reasonable answers.
Everyone, let us come to our own informed conclusions and vote accordingly.

His contributions have been critical. He's as important to Bitshares as Dan Larimer. How could anyone question that?

If not for Stan most people wouldn't have understood what Bitshares was in the very beginning.

I think a lot of people questioning Stan's contributions were not involved with the community in 2013 when things first started. Stan brought the community together with his communications.

What hurdles has Stan guided Bitshares through??

Communication hurdles and community building. Stan communicated to the dreamers while Dan communicated technical information. I think Stan was critical to get Bitshares to where it is now.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 10:20:48 AM by luckybit »
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