Blackwave Labs(黑潮实验室)/Excoin(是币交中心) Delegate Proposal

[muse-umum]

。。。

[merlin0113]

congratulations!

[cass]

#101 Blackwave Labs welcome on a paid delegate position

[cass]

 voted^^

[onceuponatime]

An api wrapper is worth the cost. Once that is complete we can re-examine whether the delegate is still worth it, but for now we really should vote these guys in.

All it would take now is for one Dev to vote his bonus!! Come on guys, they are at Standby Delgate 104 with 7.29% and init58 at Delegate 101 has only 7.35%

Any one of you "bonus guys" who hasn't voted for them yet could put them in!!

[ebit]

Evaluation object 1：blackwavelabs（黑潮实验室）------ payrate:100%------score：89分。Worth waiting for。

Evaluation of project：
（1.1）Team members information：60分。解释：官方主页只有笼统介绍，没有具体信息，有比特股社区介绍人cass。

黑潮实验室于2014年8月成立，我们目前雇佣了两个全职的开发人员以及一些兼职的客服人员，翻译者，设计者，和开发人员。

Hi Samantha,welcome on board! Guess you propose a 100% payrate delegate, right!?
Pls add this to your proposal.------cass

（1.2）Team performance：100分。解释：根据提供的以往开发项目，可以判断其开发经验丰富。
（1.3）contact：50分。解释：提供了5种联系方式。但没有：qq、facebook、新浪weibo、手机电话、家庭住址。
（2.1）Community communication：100分。解释：及时有效回复了社区疑问。
（2.2）Ability to communicate：100分。解释：熟练使用中英文及西班牙文。
（2.3）Communication skills：100分。解释：能灵活回复社区疑问。

眼下这个过程很有教育意义，我们已经学习到了更多关于如何运行不同的DACs。我们正在写一篇文章去讲述这个过程的详情，以及加上我们对比特股以及社区的分析到https://blackwavelabs.com 上。

（3.1）The code quality：100分。解释：交易所运行正常；github代码编写认真。
（4.1）Long-term planning：100分。解释：明确为第三方角色，从技术角度实现对比特股的推广应用。

请求一个受托人职位去建造开源的API包装器，还会将比特股的功能加到我们即将开源的账户系统里面（就像第一个帖子描述的那样）。

（4.2）Key projects：100分。解释：API包装器、Vault、Bits。这些类似于打赏系统，但更复杂，应用场景更丰富。

Very good! The fact that you plan to open source the API wrapper has me sold. Voting and promoting.------toast

（4.3）Key projects planning：60分。解释：不是忽悠，有了早期版本。但尚无具体时间表。

In the current system, an independent contract worker would have to take on great risk for a commodity which many of the community will request is not liquidated. If in the rare event they are accepted, they have to wait a full two weeks before breaking even on their initial investment. This is not counting the amount of time necessary to campaign for the position in the first place, if that time is considered it could take a month to recover the costs of obtaining the position in the first place. Which may only last 2-3 months before being voted out by popular vote.

（5.1）Community public praise：100分。解释：有待加深了解。

An api wrapper is worth the cost. Once that is complete we can re-examine whether the delegate is still worth it, but for now we really should vote these guys in.------toast

（5.2）Promise fulfillment situation：100分。解释：有待加深了解。

To again clarify, we plan on creating and releasing the API Wrapper and the other listed projects open source regardless if we are elected as a delegate.

We propose that if the BitShares community offer support for our ongoing mission of promoting all innovative cryptocurrencies and providing high quality open source tools. Selecting our development group as a delegate, the community would allow us to allocate more resources to the listed projects (and other unannounced projects that are in planning) so that they can be completed quicker.

[wuyanren]

Welcome Blackwave Labs on board!

Come on @all, calm down and let us grow together!

Wasn't one of the main concerns about delegates that we can attract third party developers to join our community!?
i see most of points of both sides... but at the end IMO we want all the same... let us get BitShares out to the masses…

I'll vote for you! It just needs time to get elected.
My delegate required more then 2 weeks to get elected by community votes...

@Blackwave: if you'll need anything gfx related pls don't hesitate to contact me anytime. If possible pls PM me your skype id!

cheers
cass

I think, the strength of the people will try to prove their strength, not because of someone else's question on the escape.

[cass]

Welcome Blackwave Labs on board!

Come on @all, calm down and let us grow together!

Wasn't one of the main concerns about delegates that we can attract third party developers to join our community!?
i see most of points of both sides... but at the end IMO we want all the same... let us get BitShares out to the masses…

I'll vote for you! It just needs time to get elected.
My delegate required more then 2 weeks to get elected by community votes...

@Blackwave: if you'll need anything gfx related pls don't hesitate to contact me anytime. If possible pls PM me your skype id!

cheers
cass

[btswildpig]

Hi , I think there's a misunderstanding here .
I'll glad to help you sort it out on behalf of some people from Chinese and English speaking community .
I'm kind of the communication and PR expert around here .

Over all , I think this issue here about poor communication in both parties .

Stay here , I'll help you sort out this thing .

Typing ......

[svk]

I feel you are being very impatient and rash here, but I also agree with a number of your points, and I think you'll find most of the community does too.  I'll try to address some of your points:

I don't make this claim because I wasn't elected, I make this claim because there are a 10 delegates (1 being a test), way too many init* delegates taking up the 101 slots. Less than 778 USD a day is being invested into the human capital of this institution, which is more on the level of a small business. It also appears no one wants to acknowledge that they will have a hard time finding contracters when the system requires them to pay 885 USD (not counting the many hours the campaigning will take) for a chance to run, which most likely given the statistics will fail.

I'm not sure where you're getting this information, but it's not quite correct. There are currently 12 100% delegates (none of which are tests, you may be referring to the one run by the user "testz"?). There are two more 100% delegates that are quite close to being voted in, and they've been around for a while now. There's also 1 delegate at 10%, and several new 100% delegates that will get voted in over the next few weeks probably.

What you fail to take into account is that this system is still very new (about a month and a half), and most people are still trying to get accustomed to it. Contrary to what you claim, there are more 100% delegates that have successfully been elected than not, and those who are outside for now will get there eventually. There is a lot of inertia to voting so it takes a long time for people to get their votes out, but eventually they will if your proposition is interesting.

There are definitely too many init's and I don't think you'll find anyone here who disagrees with that, unfortunately some big stakeholders are keeping them elected.

Instead the concerns almost entirely revolved around if we could hold the block rewards essentially indefinitely or focused on limiting their short term loses from inflation on their current holdings or being critical of other communities. The atmosphere here is generally unprofessional overall and absolutely falls short of the marketing slogan "the future of banking".

I think one user asked you to hold the earnings? I certainly don't agree with that and I'm sure lots of others feel the same. There's also a quite irrational fear of inflation among many members of this community, but the change that allowed inflation to happen is also quite recent which may be why. I see you got some negative reaction to your support of Nubits, that's explained by the fact that a lot of people here consider it a a dangerous Ponzi scheme, but you also got comments saying they don't care if you support Nubits.

You may not realize this but you also got the support of several very influential community members like Xeroc and Toast, and if you'd just remained patient you would probably have gotten elected.

We will be stepping back as we do not have additional time to invest continually addressing this community repeatedly on the same points, but we will keep an eye on the project. Though we suspect some enterprising individuals will likely fork the codebase, give more attention to fair distirubution and come up with a more meaningful mission statement than make short term profit for early adopters and really take full advantage concept of DPOS.

I'd love for you to elaborate on your complaints about the distribution. Bitshares has a much fairer distribution than just about any crypto currency out there, including Bitcoin, so I'm a little surprised by this. Yes, the voting power of Bytemaster is currently quite important, but it is due to voter apathy more than poor distribution. Having the core developer control less than 8-9% of a coin is quite good in my opinion, especially considering his share is not the result of a premine or insta-mine or early-mine as is the case with so many coins.

[arhag]

@Excoin

First, I agree with you that the delegate system is not an ideal way to pay workers who add value to BitShares. I (and others) have been continually pushing that point through proposals to separate delegates (who only maintain consensus and produce blocks) from a new concept of workers (who are hired by the blockchain to add value to it in whatever way the stakeholders want). Since they are not block producers there is no security need for them to put up two weeks of pay up front to register. The ideal system I propose would allow the stakeholders to decide on their salary in BitUSD and they would get paid that amount (assuming the dilution budget supports it) directly in BitUSD.

But there are many important things to do to improve BitShares. And even I, a huge advocate for separating delegates and workers, do not think it is a high priority. The delegate pay system we have right now is a work around IMHO, but it is a good enough compromise for the time being.

Another thing you should be aware of is how long it takes to get even long supported core devs or obviously beneficial delegate proposals into the top 101. I think it took over a week to get toast's 100% delegate in and I don't think there is a single person in this community who disagreed with that decision. The client is still immature and buggy. It is not yet easy and convenient to load it up and change votes. More importantly, features like cold storage with offline signing, separate voter keys, multisig, and lightweight clients have not yet been released. All of these features will make it safer, easier, and faster for stakeholders to update their votes, and I expect we should see both higher voter participation and faster voter response as a result. I am saying this because I hope your decision wasn't made partly because the blackwavelabs delegate got few votes in the relatively short period of less than a week. You cannot tell what the true community consensus is yet because very few people have likely had the opportunity to evaluate the proposal and update their votes yet. Also, trying to predict the stakeholder consensus from the sample of the voices here who are motivated enough to post in this forum can potentially give you a very skewed representation of the true stakeholder consensus.

The other thing I want to mention is regarding your comment on initial distribution. The initial distribution was determined by free market forces (either by donating BTC/PTS in the AGS campaign or choosing to expend resources to mine PTS tokens). Whichever method was used, the people trying to get some percentage of the genesis tokens spent resources to get a stake in the vision of this project, the same vision that is gradually being realized today. I don't think you can get a much more fair distribution than that.

Also, my impression is that this community is for the most part thinking long term and isn't just concerned about short term profits (at least as much as is possible with any cryptocoin). You are always going to have people holding coins to make some money off of it in the short term and there is no way to somehow filter these people out and prevent them from buying the coin. But I don't see any problem with regards to this community continually supporting improvements to the system. We are all about taking full advantage of DPOS. We have many ideas and proposals, and are open to hear from you and anyone else about ideas you have that you think will improve the system more. But people also need to keep in mind that there is a lot to do and these things need to be prioritized. So perhaps some great ideas need to be left on the back burner for a little while the truly important tasks that can make or break BTS are tackled first.

[thistome]

saddly but it's true that many people short on vision.

include log and wuyanren



来自 MI 1S 上的 Tapatalk now Free

[santaclause102]

I am all the way positive about the OP's contribution.

All I asked for was a cost/time estimate for what the OP is campaigning for.

[cgafeng]

saddly but it's true that many people short on vision.

[Excoin]

So far my impression is this community is very unhealthy, both the English and Chinese speaking community took no concern to verify my identity using PGP keys, no one reviewed code we provided and not as single person asked if we would be participating in the local economy by using our block rewards to hire members of the community.

Instead the concerns almost entirely revolved around if we could hold the block rewards essentially indefinitely or focused on limiting their short term loses from inflation on their current holdings or being critical of other communities. The atmosphere here is generally unprofessional overall and absolutely falls short of the marketing slogan "the future of banking".

As I said in my longer post that most everyone on both sections appears to be sidestepping, it appears not enough care was given to fair initial distribution and as a result of an early bubble investors are too afraid of inflation to actually utilize the system that has been put in place because most of them have lost money on their initial investment.

I don't make this claim because I wasn't elected, I make this claim because there are a 10 delegates (1 being a test), way too many init* delegates taking up the 101 slots. Less than 778 USD a day is being invested into the human capital of this institution, which is more on the level of a small business. It also appears no one wants to acknowledge that they will have a hard time finding contracters when the system requires them to pay 885 USD (not counting the many hours the campaigning will take) for a chance to run, which most likely given the statistics will fail.

The community will expect these contracters to work for essentially free until they prove themselves because the community is too lazy or unwilling or lack the skill necessary to do the proper work to vet potential employees. Because of this, the current system will primarily only appeal to people who already have a large stake in BTS, which a small pool.

I think the software is wonderful and has great potential, unfortunately the current execution is very poor and the community surrounding it has so far done little with it and as result the market has reflected those facts.

Unfortunately most people here will sidestep the points made in this this post like my previous posts because they are heavily invested instead of looking at the project and community critically and fixing the issues holding it back.

We will be stepping back as we do not have additional time to invest continually addressing this community repeatedly on the same points, but we will keep an eye on the project. Though we suspect some enterprising individuals will likely fork the codebase, give more attention to fair distirubution and come up with a more meaningful mission statement than make short term profit for early adopters and really take full advantage concept of DPOS.

I have learned a lot through the process, though an expensive lesson, in the end I feel it was worth it to learn more about BTS. I will post our article here with our analysis when it ready to be published.