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Offline MrJeans

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BitShare investing/trading
« on: December 09, 2013, 10:57:09 PM »

Let me know if this should be moved elsewhere.

What would be the best way to get the most out of ones BitShares during the early stages of BitShares?

If I hold my BitShares, I will get more dividends (from half of mining and transaction fees). But the dividends would not be enough to keep up with the inflation of new BitShares entering the system (through mining).

Thus my purchasing power will not increase over time and may infact decrease.

And I also assume supply of BitShares will be high at the start.

Given the above what would be the best way for an early adopter to make the most of BitShares when it first comes out?

Would it be to hold BitShares and collect dividends and hope for high capital appreciation against fiat? Or buy BitUSD and collect dividends from your bitUSD through the BitShares you have used to back up the BitUSD?

I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 10:01:44 AM »
I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

By this I mean; if I assume the value of BitShares will appreciate over time against fiat: would it be better to buy long on a particular BitAsset, or simply hold onto the BitShares.

I understand the benefits of buying BitAssets in order to speculate.

Offline phoenix

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 07:11:08 PM »
I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

By this I mean; if I assume the value of BitShares will appreciate over time against fiat: would it be better to buy long on a particular BitAsset, or simply hold onto the BitShares.

I understand the benefits of buying BitAssets in order to speculate.

For this aspect of Bitshares, the advantage of holding a Bitasset instead of Bitshares is that whenever you buy long on a Bitasset, someone else has to short the same Bitasset. They give up their dividends on the collateral they used on the Bitasset, and the people who bought long get to collect those extra dividends.

As for how to get the maximum value from Bitshares in the first few months, my best advice is to pay attention to the final plans for Bitshares. Bytemaster has suggested several plans for Bitshares, from a six month waiting period for mining rewards to mature, to proof of stake instead of proof of work mining. Not all of these plans will actually be implemented, but you should keep an eye on them. Then, when Bitshares are about to be released, you should look at what's actually going to be used, and make your own market predictions from there.
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline Stan

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 09:09:08 PM »
I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

By this I mean; if I assume the value of BitShares will appreciate over time against fiat: would it be better to buy long on a particular BitAsset, or simply hold onto the BitShares.

I understand the benefits of buying BitAssets in order to speculate.

For this aspect of Bitshares, the advantage of holding a Bitasset instead of Bitshares is that whenever you buy long on a Bitasset, someone else has to short the same Bitasset. They give up their dividends on the collateral they used on the Bitasset, and the people who bought long get to collect those extra dividends.

As for how to get the maximum value from Bitshares in the first few months, my best advice is to pay attention to the final plans for Bitshares. Bytemaster has suggested several plans for Bitshares, from a six month waiting period for mining rewards to mature, to proof of stake instead of proof of work mining. Not all of these plans will actually be implemented, but you should keep an eye on them. Then, when Bitshares are about to be released, you should look at what's actually going to be used, and make your own market predictions from there.

... and we will probably release an iteration or two of "testshares" so you can experiment with it before you begin playing for "keeps".
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 11:54:19 PM »
Thanks! can't wait for testshares!

Offline 8bit

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 07:06:45 AM »
I find the benefits of holding BitUSD or any other BitAsset over simply holding onto BitShares rather confusing.

By this I mean; if I assume the value of BitShares will appreciate over time against fiat: would it be better to buy long on a particular BitAsset, or simply hold onto the BitShares.

I understand the benefits of buying BitAssets in order to speculate.

For this aspect of Bitshares, the advantage of holding a Bitasset instead of Bitshares is that whenever you buy long on a Bitasset, someone else has to short the same Bitasset. They give up their dividends on the collateral they used on the Bitasset, and the people who bought long get to collect those extra dividends.

As for how to get the maximum value from Bitshares in the first few months, my best advice is to pay attention to the final plans for Bitshares. Bytemaster has suggested several plans for Bitshares, from a six month waiting period for mining rewards to mature, to proof of stake instead of proof of work mining. Not all of these plans will actually be implemented, but you should keep an eye on them. Then, when Bitshares are about to be released, you should look at what's actually going to be used, and make your own market predictions from there.

... and we will probably release an iteration or two of "testshares" so you can experiment with it before you begin playing for "keeps".

How do you plan to prevent testshares from competing with bitshares?
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 10:45:21 AM »
I would assume that BitShares would be improved, has bug fixes etc relative to each test share version. And if people know that test shares is only for testing, they wont take it seriously and for example spend all their test shares on one high risk trade.

It would therefore be in their best interest to use BitShares when it launches.

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 09:27:09 AM »
BitShares depends upon one detail, the they must have non-0 value.  So TestShares must be carefully designed to make sure this is true.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 09:38:54 PM »
When reading through the bitshares white paper in came across inactivity fees and dividend dust as a way of collecting fees for the bitshare, dac. How will these fees come into play. I hope to hold bitshares for their capital appreciation and not use them for trading. Will fees apply to me.

Offline phoenix

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 10:28:24 PM »
When reading through the bitshares white paper in came across inactivity fees and dividend dust as a way of collecting fees for the bitshare, dac. How will these fees come into play. I hope to hold bitshares for their capital appreciation and not use them for trading. Will fees apply to me.

Those fees only apply to inactive Bitshares. However, you could simply transfer your Bitshares to your own address to get out of the fees. As long as you do this once a year, you'll be fine. (If the original wallet doesn't do this automatically, someone will make a wallet that does)
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 07:41:14 PM »
When reading through the bitshares white paper in came across inactivity fees and dividend dust as a way of collecting fees for the bitshare, dac. How will these fees come into play. I hope to hold bitshares for their capital appreciation and not use them for trading. Will fees apply to me.

Those fees only apply to inactive Bitshares. However, you could simply transfer your Bitshares to your own address to get out of the fees. As long as you do this once a year, you'll be fine. (If the original wallet doesn't do this automatically, someone will make a wallet that does)

This will save you the 5% penalty fee, but there will still be the normal transaction fee.  That said, dividends earned should more than compensate for this fee.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 09:05:30 PM »
When reading through the bitshares white paper in came across inactivity fees and dividend dust as a way of collecting fees for the bitshare, dac. How will these fees come into play. I hope to hold bitshares for their capital appreciation and not use them for trading. Will fees apply to me.

Those fees only apply to inactive Bitshares. However, you could simply transfer your Bitshares to your own address to get out of the fees. As long as you do this once a year, you'll be fine. (If the original wallet doesn't do this automatically, someone will make a wallet that does)

This will save you the 5% penalty fee, but there will still be the normal transaction fee.  That said, dividends earned should more than compensate for this fee.
What other fees should steely eyed bit share holders look out for so as to not loose their precious assets?

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 01:14:45 AM »
When reading through the bitshares white paper in came across inactivity fees and dividend dust as a way of collecting fees for the bitshare, dac. How will these fees come into play. I hope to hold bitshares for their capital appreciation and not use them for trading. Will fees apply to me.

Those fees only apply to inactive Bitshares. However, you could simply transfer your Bitshares to your own address to get out of the fees. As long as you do this once a year, you'll be fine. (If the original wallet doesn't do this automatically, someone will make a wallet that does)

This will save you the 5% penalty fee, but there will still be the normal transaction fee.  That said, dividends earned should more than compensate for this fee.
What other fees should steely eyed bit share holders look out for so as to not loose their precious assets?

If there is a margin call there is a 5% fee.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 01:17:23 AM »
Yes, but this would only apply to persons holding positions in BitAssets and not persons simply holding BitShares for capital growth, correct?

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitShare investing/trading
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 01:18:03 AM »
Correct only if you are in a short position


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For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

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