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Offline islandking

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Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« on: January 13, 2015, 04:21:52 PM »

The wallet is set to default at 0.5 BTS per transaction, but in the settings it can be brought down to 0.10. It seems like almost all of the transactions are using the 0.10 fee instead of 0.50.

Is this a problem? It is 5x lower so that means 5x lower profit for our DAC.

This is not a big issue right now but I am just wondering what the plans are for fees in the future.
I've been working on a new electronic cash system that's fully peer-to-peer, with no trusted third party. - Satoshi

Offline Rune

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Re: Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2015, 04:34:53 PM »
The fees are neglible either way. Their purpose is to prevent spam, so as long as we aren't getting spammed fees should be as low as possible. When BitShares has grown to the point where it has a huge userbase of people using the block chain primarily for practical reasons, rather than as investors, then it will make sense to increase fees also for the sake of earning revenue. At this moment fee revenue is nonexistent anyway and value is gained from getting new users to buy into bitassets.

Offline Frodo

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Re: Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 04:43:22 PM »
Let me just quote bytemaster here http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/bitshares/2014/12/30/BitShares-Fee-Schedule-Explained/
Quote
Variable fees are up to the discretion of delegates which must maintain shareholder approval. The primary purpose of these fees is to cover the actual costs of propagating, validating, and storing the transaction on the blockchain. The minimum amount you can get away with paying is determined by the delegate that charges the least; however, for best performance you should pay an amount equal to the delegate that charges the most.
[...]
Delegates can publish their fee expectations as part of the public data associated with their account. In the future wallets will be able to use this published information to automatically select the proper fees for the user.

So the minimum transaction fee can be changed without hardfork. But I agree with Rune, at this point in time it doesn't make a lot of sense to do so.

Offline islandking

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Re: Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 05:02:24 PM »
Thanks for the link to that article. Bytemaster also said this:
Quote
The minimum amount you can get away with paying is determined by the delegate that charges the least; however, for best performance you should pay an amount equal to the delegate that charges the most.

As of December 2014 the default minimum fee required by the delegates is set at 0.1 BTS which is a fraction of a cent. The default fee specified in the wallet is 0.5 BTS which is about 1 cent. The amount paid by the wallet is configurable, but the default is more than necessary so that it is future proof.

I agree with Rune that it is a negligible at this point. I feel like we need to incentive market makers so maybe keeping it at 0.10 BTS is a good idea.
I just thought I would bring it up as a good discussion topic.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 05:03:57 PM by islandking »
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Offline Frodo

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Re: Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 05:47:56 PM »
I feel like we need to incentive market makers so maybe keeping it at 0.10 BTS is a good idea.

I agree, higher TX fees would do more harm than good right now.
And considering that we are still ~600k below supply since the hard fork, while paying multiple 100% delegates I am more than happy.

I just thought I would bring it up as a good discussion topic.

Sure, always a good thing to bring up discussion topics.

Offline theoretical

Re: Bitshares fee potential issue? 0.50 vs 0.10 BTS
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2015, 05:57:38 PM »
This is not a big issue right now but I am just wondering what the plans are for fees in the future.

We're planning to eventually allow delegates to publish feeds for all fee types charged by the network, and the actual fee will then be the median of the feeds.  Thus fees will be set by the delegates.

Currently delegates can sort-of set fees by choosing not to include transactions with low fees, but it requires unanimous consent of the delegates.

A median is more robust about ensuring the will of the majority of delegates will win in case some delegates want lower fees and others want higher fees.
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