Proposal---Delegates inspectors group

[gamey]

I think this is naturally occurring already. Although having a one spot to go to in Chinese and English would be nice. Outside of that I think that there are enough bored ass people on here to keep tabs on those who are not producing and make it known. It might be the case when we start to have more non-core dev delegates but at this stage it doesn't need a delegate.

People literally love to do this because they hate the thought of someone getting one over on them.  This problem doesn't need a delegate at this point.

Another way of looking at it though is that it helps marketing, and growing confidence in the project, but do we really need a delegate to do this? 
When we ask people to do month/biweekly reports, we shouldn't push this idea of 'keeping tabs' on them, but let it be a way for everyone to communicate what they are working on. 
This will help grow market cap by instilling confidence in the investors. 
Those not paying for themselves will show their colors. 
Those who never do anything will be very obvious. 
But it really is just as much of a tool to showcase all the work that is being done. 
No greater content could be shown.
Not a more effective message be known.
Let me center this paragraph like a poorman's Stan.

I didn't propose a new delegate position, and probably will never do it, because it currently is a sub-program of market.cn.group101, who is responsible for all the shareholders, especially some investors who are not very involved in the developing and this forum due to language and time. They want to see how their shares are diluted then decide who to vote for.

Ahh my bad then.  It becomes hard to keep it all clear and I was at the end of my day.  I am in 101% agreement we need some system to put things together.

I hate doing stuff like that.  Whether timesheets or documenting what you've done for management.  So if we are not having someone hound people, then we are going to be asking for their voluntary contribution of describing the work they've done.  When we do that, we need to make sure the community sees this just as much as a reason to advertise what BitShares is doing as playing the check-up game on delegates.

Those who are not pulling their weight will be found sooner than later.  We don't need need a management layer at this point.

[fuzzy]

 
Can you find a honest media ?
No , you can't . The best way to prevent certain people abusing the power of information is to provide more competing information , just like the media .
Anyone can be one of this position , with or without pay .
Anyone with their free time can do this .

If we dont find a way to pay people doing this, it is going to be so open to corruption its not even funny.  Those who are expected to work for free can not do it indefinitely and if they do, eventually they will realize the opportunity costs--whether on their own or pointed out by someone approaching them to ask special favors.  The only potential exception to this rule are those who already have substantial sums invested in the project.  But even there are dangers there as power blocks form. 

Asking people to work for free indefinitely is bad juju.  Those who work free and can be trusted are the first we should pay because otherwise, idealism is beaten out of them as they watch to see others paid and recognize they are looked at as less valuable. 
This causes either cpchances for corruption or for those people to leave and seek projects that pay for their work.

The chinese marketing volunteers should be the most keen to this feeling, knowing their history.

[fuzzy]

Who guards the guardians?

They certainly will not audit themselves out of the position.   Just look at the SEC....

Why they need to be audited? They just ask the delegates their progress and report the information that provided by delegates to the community. If there is any dishonesty, the delegates will argue and the community will know. They won't make any voting suggestion or rating.   

This begins making more sense.  Good idea...depending on the progress reporting metrics we are talking about.

[ripplexiaoshan]

Who guards the guardians?

They certainly will not audit themselves out of the position.   Just look at the SEC....

Why they need to be audited? They just ask the delegates their progress and report the information that provided by delegates to the community. If there is any dishonesty, the delegates will argue and the community will know. They won't make any voting suggestion or rating.   

[fuzzy]

Who guards the guardians?

They certainly will not audit themselves out of the position.   Just look at the SEC....

Look at the HRs on the regular company ...
What would they do to solve the problem you asked ?

I already talked about it and the strategy with delegate hangouts.  The only way you can get to the bottom of this stuff is to give competitors the ability to audit the delegates they hope to displace and join up in a common forum to get the word out to the public when there is a potential issue.  Then the Community can decide if claims made are true or if they are not. 

You have to give the power to the community.   

[ripplexiaoshan]

I think this is naturally occurring already. Although having a one spot to go to in Chinese and English would be nice. Outside of that I think that there are enough bored ass people on here to keep tabs on those who are not producing and make it known. It might be the case when we start to have more non-core dev delegates but at this stage it doesn't need a delegate.

People literally love to do this because they hate the thought of someone getting one over on them.  This problem doesn't need a delegate at this point.

Another way of looking at it though is that it helps marketing, and growing confidence in the project, but do we really need a delegate to do this? 
When we ask people to do month/biweekly reports, we shouldn't push this idea of 'keeping tabs' on them, but let it be a way for everyone to communicate what they are working on. 
This will help grow market cap by instilling confidence in the investors. 
Those not paying for themselves will show their colors. 
Those who never do anything will be very obvious. 
But it really is just as much of a tool to showcase all the work that is being done. 
No greater content could be shown.
Not a more effective message be known.
Let me center this paragraph like a poorman's Stan.

I didn't propose a new delegate position, and probably will never do it, because it currently is a sub-program of market.cn.group101, who is responsible for all the shareholders, especially some investors who are not very involved in the developing and this forum due to language and time. They want to see how their shares are diluted then decide who to vote for.

[ripplexiaoshan]

From my understanding the OP is proposing a page which gives information about the delegates .. NOT a rating ..

Exactly, what we want to do is to present the general information of all high payrate delegates regularly, including the progress. This is supposed to be done by each delegate, but as we can see, few of them update their status frequently. Then we can remind them and summarize all the information in a single post to show a comparison, which is very necessary when multiple teams are doing the same task.

[btswildpig]

So you would be like a ratings agency?  Seems like you would have a lot of power over who is elected and who isn't...

That is my fear too for the future of bitshares...
hope we have not something like ....
I mean with so much power they have (more than Countries Governments in my opinion)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/15/credit-ratings-agencies-moodys
http://www.voxeu.org/article/rating-agency-europe-good-idea
http://www.economicpredictions.org/who-is-to-blame-for-the-financial-crisis.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_%28credit_rating_agencies%29

Oh , you want shareholders to pay for dilution , and you don't want the delegate to be reviewed by anybody just like normal company's HR department would do ?

So .....What are we building here ?

If we're not building a business , then what are we paying for exactly ?

If the delegate can do their job well and put up a report like any good employee in companies would do , we won't even talk about needing a inspector in the first place .

This is not politics . Delegates are elected to be an employee , not to be a politician or a leader . Delegates are employees to the system and the system needs a way to identify those individuals who are the best for the system .

If you find a way to find/identify inspectors that are honest and objective I am on it?
When we have for example in future 30 inspectors, will we need to elect about 10 new inspectors to review the work/inspecting of the previous 30?
What about the slate future? Is it not helpful enough?
What about the registration fee?
What about the current market cap ? (current dev's are underpaid...)
I don't think we need this right now! Maybe it is a really good idea, I just think it is not the right timing...

Can you find a honest media ?
No , you can't . The best way to prevent certain people abusing the power of information is to provide more competing information , just like the media .
Anyone can be one of this position , with or without pay .
Anyone with their free time can do this .

For the record , if we don't address this issue , the dev's are gonna underpaid more and more , because no investor in their right mind would invest into a project without knowing how the delegates who are dilution their shares are doing . And that alone would affect the share price , thus affect the developers' income more and more .

How can you tell your friend "this project is doing ok , it has a lot of great delegates" , but you can't even find an evidence to support it ?

[btswildpig]

Who guards the guardians?

They certainly will not audit themselves out of the position.   Just look at the SEC....

Look at the HRs on the regular company ...
What would they do to solve the problem you asked ?

[fuzzy]

Who guards the guardians?

They certainly will not audit themselves out of the position.   Just look at the SEC....

[liondani]

So you would be like a ratings agency?  Seems like you would have a lot of power over who is elected and who isn't...

That is my fear too for the future of bitshares...
hope we have not something like ....
I mean with so much power they have (more than Countries Governments in my opinion)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/15/credit-ratings-agencies-moodys
http://www.voxeu.org/article/rating-agency-europe-good-idea
http://www.economicpredictions.org/who-is-to-blame-for-the-financial-crisis.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_%28credit_rating_agencies%29

Oh , you want shareholders to pay for dilution , and you don't want the delegate to be reviewed by anybody just like normal company's HR department would do ?

So .....What are we building here ?

If we're not building a business , then what are we paying for exactly ?

If the delegate can do their job well and put up a report like any good employee in companies would do , we won't even talk about needing a inspector in the first place .

This is not politics . Delegates are elected to be an employee , not to be a politician or a leader . Delegates are employees to the system and the system needs a way to identify those individuals who are the best for the system .

If you find a way to find/identify inspectors that are honest and objective I am on it?
When we have for example in future 30 inspectors, will we need to elect about 10 new inspectors to review the work/inspecting of the previous 30?
What about the slate future? Is it not helpful enough?
What about the registration fee?
What about the current market cap ? (current dev's are underpaid...)
I don't think we need this right now! Maybe it is a really good idea, I just think it is not the right timing...

[gamey]

I think this is naturally occurring already. Although having a one spot to go to in Chinese and English would be nice. Outside of that I think that there are enough bored ass people on here to keep tabs on those who are not producing and make it known. It might be the case when we start to have more non-core dev delegates but at this stage it doesn't need a delegate.

People literally love to do this because they hate the thought of someone getting one over on them.  This problem doesn't need a delegate at this point.

Another way of looking at it though is that it helps marketing, and growing confidence in the project, but do we really need a delegate to do this? 
When we ask people to do month/biweekly reports, we shouldn't push this idea of 'keeping tabs' on them, but let it be a way for everyone to communicate what they are working on. 
This will help grow market cap by instilling confidence in the investors. 
Those not paying for themselves will show their colors. 
Those who never do anything will be very obvious. 
But it really is just as much of a tool to showcase all the work that is being done. 
No greater content could be shown.
Not a more effective message be known.
Let me center this paragraph like a poorman's Stan.

[sumantso]

We want to separate delegates from workers and paid proposal and have all inflation require a majority of active votes

Welcome news! All the drum banging seems to have worked

The way I see it, block producing is of utmost importance and there should be as much redundancy as possible. The software itself should be able to push down on the priority list depending on production efficiency, geographical separation, similar hosting etc.

[xeroc]

From my understanding the OP is proposing a page which gives information about the delegates .. NOT a rating ..

[btswildpig]

So you would be like a ratings agency?  Seems like you would have a lot of power over who is elected and who isn't...

That is my fear too for the future of bitshares...
hope we have not something like ....
I mean with so much power they have (more than Countries Governments in my opinion)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/15/credit-ratings-agencies-moodys
http://www.voxeu.org/article/rating-agency-europe-good-idea
http://www.economicpredictions.org/who-is-to-blame-for-the-financial-crisis.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_%28credit_rating_agencies%29

Oh , you want shareholders to pay for dilution , and you don't want the delegate to be reviewed by anybody just like normal company's HR department would do ?

So .....What are we building here ?

If we're not building a business , then what are we paying for exactly ?

If the delegate can do their job well and put up a report like any good employee in companies would do , we won't even talk about needing a inspector in the first place .

This is not politics . Delegates are elected to be an employee , not to be a politician or a leader . Delegates are employees to the system and the system needs a way to identify those individuals who are the best for the system .