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Offline faddat

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Forking bitshares
« on: January 24, 2015, 11:30:02 AM »

Dan and I had a lot to think about after speaking with you guys on the mumble hangout.  We're really glad that we did.  Bytemaster was correct-- we do form a DAC.  Here's what Dawn proposes to do:

  • Formally Tie Bitshares and Dawn through launching a delegate on bitshares
  • Support bitshares through the creation of hardware implementing its features
  • Offer to replace this awful forum code with Discourse because we think y'all are cool
  (Bulleted lists shouldn't be so damn hard!)
  • Sync our codebases-- for the sake of API compatibility and just goodness, overall, we're going to keep up with your changes and make our changes available to you
  • Aim for a larger number of more local delegates
  • Create an info-liberation toolkit as both hardware and software
  • Offer services based on that info-liberation toolkit

Offline fuzzy

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 12:21:48 PM »
Bitsapphire was supposed to be doing the switch to new forums, but to be honest if it hasnt been done in the past 6 months it is probably safe to bet its no longer a priority. Sounds like a good idea.

Delegate idea. Great. That is precisely what I woild like to see happen.

Bitshares customized hardware? Well then you basically have solidified our superiority in this space with a first mover advantage up that cannot be over stated in its importance.

Syncing code bases and providing updates from your end just makes everything more seemless to integrate your hardware (+100%)

More local delegates? What does this part mean?

And the info liberation toolkit...well obviously we are going to have star trek now as opposed to tue next great war we potentially feel the urge to quell before it begins with this currency crisis,


So looking forward to working with you faddat. Ill chat personally soon!
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Offline gamey

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2015, 12:22:51 PM »

What is Dawn ?  I haven't had a chance to listen to the mumble hangout ?
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Akado

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 02:17:20 PM »

What is Dawn ?  I haven't had a chance to listen to the mumble hangout ?

check it here  :)
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13598.0
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Offline faddat

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 02:23:46 PM »
Dawn is a DAC dedicated to the goal of improving the world through technology.  We make open hardware and software, and support them with services.  We've much bigger plans than that, though, and I hope that you and others on this forum will get to be a part of that.  Here's our 1-year:

https://www.icloud.com/pages/AwBWCAESEDEArRhp07qAQzyUX35J3RYaKq4Cs5B2PyOQ26G9ikeKh_51C2q0toR7LjbAdGp_AgbdR_TdWJr-05FzFwMCUCAQEEIJP7_hH1QDFHQeZbxxoX0HKbB_x4CHVWcUP5WDqgmngD#Dawn

We are hoping to accomplish many really huge dreams:

  • Open Farm Robotics
  • Open Jet airliner
  • Open Personal computing devices:
    • MiniPC
    • Laptop
    • Tablet
    • Router

And much, much more!  itdawns.org is the URL....

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 02:31:03 PM »
Dawn is a DAC dedicated to the goal of improving the world through technology.  We make open hardware and software, and support them with services.  We've much bigger plans than that, though, and I hope that you and others on this forum will get to be a part of that.  Here's our 1-year:

https://www.icloud.com/pages/AwBWCAESEDEArRhp07qAQzyUX35J3RYaKq4Cs5B2PyOQ26G9ikeKh_51C2q0toR7LjbAdGp_AgbdR_TdWJr-05FzFwMCUCAQEEIJP7_hH1QDFHQeZbxxoX0HKbB_x4CHVWcUP5WDqgmngD#Dawn

We are hoping to accomplish many really huge dreams:

  • Open Farm Robotics
  • Open Jet airliner
  • Open Personal computing devices:
    • MiniPC
    • Laptop
    • Tablet
    • Router

And much, much more!  itdawns.org is the URL....
Please explain how Dawn is a DAC?
As far as I can see, Dawn is a regular company selling hardware, what am I missing?

Offline Rune

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 03:00:28 PM »
If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 03:13:38 PM »
If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet. :)
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2015, 03:34:41 PM »
Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

sumantso

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2015, 03:39:26 PM »
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2015, 03:42:09 PM »
Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

The project is open source to allow for anyone to develop on the software side but to my knowledge Dawn will be helping us with incorporating our software onto their platform.

Here is the raw version of the latest hangout:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13638.0
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2015, 03:52:46 PM »
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

1) how can we have a truly decentralized movement when we are forced to use hardware controlled by the current paradigm's corrupt power players?
Customized hardware significantly increases our versitility, utility,  partnership potential with other techs like maidsafe (what if we are the first DAC to work directly with maidsafe?), and resilience to attack.
Being first movers in this space also put us at significant advantage to all competitors.

2) I think faddat is confusing the term fork because they to my knowledge do not intend to actualky run their own DAC in terms of what we are doing here.  But they do plan on being a quasi-form of  decentralized autonomous company ...just more on the hardware programming side of the equation.
They hope to issue their UIA on bitshares' platform.

I dont think people yet comorehend just how huge this is for bitshares.  I assure you will, eventtually :)
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Offline Akado

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2015, 04:01:20 PM »
If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet. :)

I searched and only finds things related to a btc miner named phoenix? could you provide a link please?
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2015, 04:08:36 PM »

More importantly BitShares is public domain software. I am being pedantic because if we're going to be living in this space we need to get our paradigm straight. Open source simply means the authors/owners are willing to show people the code and perhaps compile it themselves. It does not mean that it is free or open to community development. Open source software can have a number of different types of licenses attached to it. For example GNU source code is treated differently than Public Domain.

My concern is the perception that "Open Source" = "Free". If we want more people to open their source up for all to see we need to respect the license they have chosen.

Welcome Dawn. Was great chatting with you on the Mumble. I'm excited to see some of the features implemented in hardware. For example a big pain point we have now is indexing. If a hardware solution could optimize that it would be a huge win. The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:12:22 PM by Riverhead »

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Forking bitshares
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2015, 04:12:43 PM »
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Welcome Dawn! I listened to the mumble session where you introduced your project and it is a great project! Looking forward to it!

As I see it: Dawn would be a "normal company", not a DAC in the sense as BitShares or Bitcoin are DACs. I define a system as a DAC that provides a "ledger based service" (updating account balances via a blockchain, (money), trading/exchange/bank based on a blockchain, issuing lottery tickets etc.). The service Dawn wants to offer to customers is not a ledger based service (selling hardware). What Dawn wants (as far as I understood it) is to manage their company based on a public ledger (including: assign property/shareholder rights, shareholder voting, paying dividens etc.).  They could do this in two ways:
(1) Fork Bitshares to "Dawnshares" so that the native tokens of this DAC (Downshares) would represent the shares in the Dawn business (selling hardware).
(2) Issue a User Issued Asset that is tracked on the BitShares blockchain and give it to the shareholders of the Dawn company. Here is a great by BM about user issued assets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzruOULgmng

(1) would be a lot of effort and has no advantages as I see it. BM mentioned one I can not recall right now.
(2) would be much more cost effective, could do everything (1) can (BM mentioned one thing it can't that I can't remember right now) and would provide much more liquidity / more exposure to users of BitShares.
One real difference is the security and maintainance: With (1) Dawn provides for it's own security and maintenance (security that transactions (sending Dawnshares, voting etc.) are not reversed and that trading shares and voting is always possible) and small Dawn shareholder would have to trust that the big Dawn shareholders are not colluding. With (2) Dawn externalizes security and maintenance to the BitShares network. (2) in that sense would be more neutral.
 
@faddat: Here are two articles about what the term DAC describes: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DAC/Crypto-Equity_Analysis_under_the_DAC_metaphor
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3901.0
The term "DAC" was intended as an analogy to describe and analyze "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin (and BitShares). 
 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:32:10 PM by delulo »

 

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