Author Topic: Forking bitshares  (Read 6052 times)

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Offline Rune

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Okay-- I'll put it another way-- Dawn plans to be 100% Libre in the GNU fashion about everything.  When we have to use closed components, we will work to eliminate them in future versions.  We know all too well that Open Source != Gratis.  Our intent with using the phrase Open Source is to signal to people that our code, etc are available and to let users know that they can and should participate in the production of both the hardware and software.   

To those who were talking about adding value re: a delegate-- yes, that's our intent.  I could have hardware wallets in people's hands lightning-fast.  I will only need some info from people here as to how they should be configured & what UX should be like. 

My offer of a forum was totally legit-- just say the word and I can have shiny discourse up and set for you all.  I do need to look at what the migration would be like, though....

Dawn is not a DAC yet.  Dawn is a DAC startup, a proto-DAC, an organization with aspirations of DAC-hood.  Excuse my overstatement.

Getting an "official" bitshares hardware wallet that's fully integrated with the bitshares full node and light client is really one of the biggest things we could get right now hardware wise. I'd suggest you research the different hardware wallet options and use your expertise to decide on which one is best to port, then turn that into a delegate proposal. Once you deliver and start selling the hardware wallet, you will have earned trust from the community and will likely get continued support for your delegate in whatever next step you wish to take, as long as it's something that benefits bitshares.

Offline robrigo

Uh, I think I am using your forum for its intended purpose:

Collaboration. 

Your forum code-- the software running the forum-- it basically sucks.  Sorry, but that's the bottom line. 

I'm totally not trying to rag on the community here, though-- community is killer!

If you want to see where Bitsapphire (current team that took over maintenance of the forums) is at with the forum replacement, I would reach out to them in email. They post here occasionally.

Last I heard, they were building a custom solution to keep the SMF forum and a new discourse forum in sync with each other so anyone could use either forum and not miss a beat. This was months ago though.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 07:34:53 pm by robrigo »

Offline faddat

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Uh, I think I am using your forum for its intended purpose:

Collaboration. 

Your forum code-- the software running the forum-- it basically sucks.  Sorry, but that's the bottom line. 

I'm totally not trying to rag on the community here, though-- community is killer!

Offline faddat

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Okay-- I'll put it another way-- Dawn plans to be 100% Libre in the GNU fashion about everything.  When we have to use closed components, we will work to eliminate them in future versions.  We know all too well that Open Source != Gratis.  Our intent with using the phrase Open Source is to signal to people that our code, etc are available and to let users know that they can and should participate in the production of both the hardware and software.   

To those who were talking about adding value re: a delegate-- yes, that's our intent.  I could have hardware wallets in people's hands lightning-fast.  I will only need some info from people here as to how they should be configured & what UX should be like. 

My offer of a forum was totally legit-- just say the word and I can have shiny discourse up and set for you all.  I do need to look at what the migration would be like, though....

Dawn is not a DAC yet.  Dawn is a DAC startup, a proto-DAC, an organization with aspirations of DAC-hood.  Excuse my overstatement. 


Offline ag

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This is ridiculous. Dawn, please leave our forum alone. I think you are disrupting! maybe you want to steal our passwords!

Offline fuzzy

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet. :)

I searched and only finds things related to a btc miner named phoenix? could you provide a link please?
http://fenixer.org



More importantly BitShares is public domain software. I am being pedantic because if we're going to be living in this space we need to get our paradigm straight. Open source simply means the authors/owners are willing to show people the code and perhaps compile it themselves. It does not mean that it is free or open to community development. Open source software can have a number of different types of licenses attached to it. For example GNU source code is treated differently than Public Domain.

My concern is the perception that "Open Source" = "Free". If we want more people to open their source up for all to see we need to respect the license they have chosen.

Welcome Dawn. Was great chatting with you on the Mumble. I'm excited to see some of the features implemented in hardware. For example a big pain point we have now is indexing. If a hardware solution could optimize that it would be a huge win. The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.

Well-stated.  This is a very important distinction to be made thanks for doing it Riverhead.


You have it about right (for now).  Who knows where this will go in the future, but if it starts here we are looking at even more positive PR associated with our project and if they accept bitAssets (as they plan on doing) we are looking at bringing a lot of people to our ecosystem. 

If they are making money from a delegate, they are then able afford to offer discounts to those who pay with things like bitUSD.  We really need to do this...I can't express the important of them getting paid by BitShares...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Welcome Dawn! I listened to the mumble session where you introduced your project and it is a great project! Looking forward to it!

As I see it: Dawn would be a "normal company", not a DAC in the sense as BitShares or Bitcoin is a DAC. I define a system as a DAC that provides a "ledger based service" (updating account balances, (money), trading/exchange/bank, issuing lottery tickets etc.). The service Dawn wants to offer to customers is not a ledger based service (selling hardware). What Dawn wants (as far as I understood it) is to manage their company based on a public ledger (including: assign property/shareholder rights, sherholder voting, paying dividens etc.).  They could do this in two ways:
(1) Fork Bitshares to "Dawnshares" so that the native tokens of this DAC (Downshares) would represent the shares in the Dawn business (selling hardware).
(2) Issue a User Issued Asset and give it to the shareholders of the Dawn company.

(1) would be a lot of effort and has no advantages as I see it. BM mentioned one I can not recall right now.
(2) would be much more cost effective, would provide much more liquidity / more exposure to users of BitShares.

@faddat: Here are two articles about what the term DAC describes: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DAC/Crypto-Equity_Analysis_under_the_DAC_metaphor
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3901.0
The term "DAC" was inteded as an analogy to describe and analyze "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin (and BitShares). 
 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:17:22 pm by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline santaclause102

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Welcome Dawn! I listened to the mumble session where you introduced your project and it is a great project! Looking forward to it!

As I see it: Dawn would be a "normal company", not a DAC in the sense as BitShares or Bitcoin are DACs. I define a system as a DAC that provides a "ledger based service" (updating account balances via a blockchain, (money), trading/exchange/bank based on a blockchain, issuing lottery tickets etc.). The service Dawn wants to offer to customers is not a ledger based service (selling hardware). What Dawn wants (as far as I understood it) is to manage their company based on a public ledger (including: assign property/shareholder rights, shareholder voting, paying dividens etc.).  They could do this in two ways:
(1) Fork Bitshares to "Dawnshares" so that the native tokens of this DAC (Downshares) would represent the shares in the Dawn business (selling hardware).
(2) Issue a User Issued Asset that is tracked on the BitShares blockchain and give it to the shareholders of the Dawn company. Here is a great by BM about user issued assets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzruOULgmng

(1) would be a lot of effort and has no advantages as I see it. BM mentioned one I can not recall right now.
(2) would be much more cost effective, could do everything (1) can (BM mentioned one thing it can't that I can't remember right now) and would provide much more liquidity / more exposure to users of BitShares.
One real difference is the security and maintainance: With (1) Dawn provides for it's own security and maintenance (security that transactions (sending Dawnshares, voting etc.) are not reversed and that trading shares and voting is always possible) and small Dawn shareholder would have to trust that the big Dawn shareholders are not colluding. With (2) Dawn externalizes security and maintenance to the BitShares network. (2) in that sense would be more neutral.
 
@faddat: Here are two articles about what the term DAC describes: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DAC/Crypto-Equity_Analysis_under_the_DAC_metaphor
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3901.0
The term "DAC" was intended as an analogy to describe and analyze "crypto currencies" like Bitcoin (and BitShares). 
 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:32:10 pm by delulo »

Offline Riverhead


More importantly BitShares is public domain software. I am being pedantic because if we're going to be living in this space we need to get our paradigm straight. Open source simply means the authors/owners are willing to show people the code and perhaps compile it themselves. It does not mean that it is free or open to community development. Open source software can have a number of different types of licenses attached to it. For example GNU source code is treated differently than Public Domain.

My concern is the perception that "Open Source" = "Free". If we want more people to open their source up for all to see we need to respect the license they have chosen.

Welcome Dawn. Was great chatting with you on the Mumble. I'm excited to see some of the features implemented in hardware. For example a big pain point we have now is indexing. If a hardware solution could optimize that it would be a huge win. The possibilities are endless once you're willing to commit code to metal.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:12:22 pm by Riverhead »

Offline Akado

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If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet. :)

I searched and only finds things related to a btc miner named phoenix? could you provide a link please?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline fuzzy

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

1) how can we have a truly decentralized movement when we are forced to use hardware controlled by the current paradigm's corrupt power players?
Customized hardware significantly increases our versitility, utility,  partnership potential with other techs like maidsafe (what if we are the first DAC to work directly with maidsafe?), and resilience to attack.
Being first movers in this space also put us at significant advantage to all competitors.

2) I think faddat is confusing the term fork because they to my knowledge do not intend to actualky run their own DAC in terms of what we are doing here.  But they do plan on being a quasi-form of  decentralized autonomous company ...just more on the hardware programming side of the equation.
They hope to issue their UIA on bitshares' platform.

I dont think people yet comorehend just how huge this is for bitshares.  I assure you will, eventtually :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

The project is open source to allow for anyone to develop on the software side but to my knowledge Dawn will be helping us with incorporating our software onto their platform.

Here is the raw version of the latest hangout:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13638.0
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

sumantso

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TLMCrZLbx3M2hrM3pnY0Z6dUU/view

I caught the first 15-20 minutes, and I am still confused what is it supposed to do for BitShares and why is this being called forking.

Offline Troglodactyl

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Welcome faddat and Dawn!

Have you already planned the software side of your mesh networking support for Mammoth, or are you just planning to handle the hardware and make it capable of supporting any of the existing software projects?

Are you considering moving your stakeholder involvement platform to BitShares?

fuzzy, is the last mumble recording posted anywhere yet?

Offline fuzzy

If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.

Fenix will be the hardware wallet. :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline Rune

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If you want to get the support (and subsidy through a delegate) of the bitshares community, you have to offer something that will be useful to us right now, most likely a hardware wallet. All the other ideas can come later, at first you need to offer something of immediate value.

Also issuing your stock on the bitshares blockchain is fine even if you're not a DAC. You just need to do KYC and whitelisting.