Author Topic: BeyondBitcoin hangout with Bytemaster 01-30-15  (Read 12287 times)

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Offline fuzzy

Yeh but it is also more likely people would get far wealthier from working for another company than BitShares and buying BitShares as opposed to working for our blockchain and taking criticism, but it doesn't mean people aren't doing it! :)

Learning all that mining crap to support a POW network and put all that money into various things so you end up with significantly less % BTS doesn't help BTS at all (if you had just bought BTS instead), but does help the mining pools a bit.  So you end up wasting both significant time and money, both which could go to help BitShares. 

I'm just telling rgcrypto that while it sounds neat, it really is only valuable if you are already mining.  Rgcrypto does some of the most valuable work I've seen for Bitshares at the moment and he definitely shouldn't be dicking around trying to get a mining rig working which would be a total waste of his talents.  The man is golden.

The bolded part = bingo (not the game we may have to cringe through seeing in our wallets). 
I agree that he might be better utilizing his talents by doing what he does best, but that doesn't mean that this "mining for bitshares" idea couldn't bring in a huge userbase from other cryptocurrencies that are mined. 
As it stands, miners are now having to pay taxes on what they mine, valued at the time when it is mined.  In a Bear Market....we can effectively say that very few miners are going to be happy about paying taxes based on cryptocurrencies that have likely lost a great deal of their value since being mined.  Being able to mine into bitUSD or another, more stable currency helps bitshares by bringing the volume of bitAssets up while also helping miners who are feeling caught in a (bear) trap. 

I don't think we should underestimate the power of that synergy...

Don't overestimate this 'huge community'.  The mining+paying taxes angle is interesting but I'm not sure how many miners declare their mining income.

It would be a better idea 8 months ago but I'm not sure how many people even care about mining anymore.  I used to know a few geeks who messed with that, but I don't know any anymore because they quit.

You can spend $250 on a machine that generates .25 a day, or .75 if power is free.  <- maybe better deals and maybe I made a big mistake but that is the state of mining.  Machines that are 1/2 as efficient wouldn't even make a profit with scrypt.

Luckybit was talking about it 8 months ago.  I wonder what happened to that guy ;)
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Offline gamey

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Yeh but it is also more likely people would get far wealthier from working for another company than BitShares and buying BitShares as opposed to working for our blockchain and taking criticism, but it doesn't mean people aren't doing it! :)

Learning all that mining crap to support a POW network and put all that money into various things so you end up with significantly less % BTS doesn't help BTS at all (if you had just bought BTS instead), but does help the mining pools a bit.  So you end up wasting both significant time and money, both which could go to help BitShares. 

I'm just telling rgcrypto that while it sounds neat, it really is only valuable if you are already mining.  Rgcrypto does some of the most valuable work I've seen for Bitshares at the moment and he definitely shouldn't be dicking around trying to get a mining rig working which would be a total waste of his talents.  The man is golden.

The bolded part = bingo (not the game we may have to cringe through seeing in our wallets). 
I agree that he might be better utilizing his talents by doing what he does best, but that doesn't mean that this "mining for bitshares" idea couldn't bring in a huge userbase from other cryptocurrencies that are mined. 
As it stands, miners are now having to pay taxes on what they mine, valued at the time when it is mined.  In a Bear Market....we can effectively say that very few miners are going to be happy about paying taxes based on cryptocurrencies that have likely lost a great deal of their value since being mined.  Being able to mine into bitUSD or another, more stable currency helps bitshares by bringing the volume of bitAssets up while also helping miners who are feeling caught in a (bear) trap. 

I don't think we should underestimate the power of that synergy...

Don't overestimate this 'huge community'.  The mining+paying taxes angle is interesting but I'm not sure how many miners declare their mining income.

It would be a better idea 8 months ago but I'm not sure how many people even care about mining anymore.  I used to know a few geeks who messed with that, but I don't know any anymore because they quit.

You can spend $250 on a machine that generates .25 a day, or .75 if power is free.  <- maybe better deals and maybe I made a big mistake but that is the state of mining.  Machines that are 1/2 as efficient wouldn't even make a profit with scrypt.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 10:19:52 pm by gamey »
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Offline fuzzy

Yeh but it is also more likely people would get far wealthier from working for another company than BitShares and buying BitShares as opposed to working for our blockchain and taking criticism, but it doesn't mean people aren't doing it! :)

Learning all that mining crap to support a POW network and put all that money into various things so you end up with significantly less % BTS doesn't help BTS at all (if you had just bought BTS instead), but does help the mining pools a bit.  So you end up wasting both significant time and money, both which could go to help BitShares. 

I'm just telling rgcrypto that while it sounds neat, it really is only valuable if you are already mining.  Rgcrypto does some of the most valuable work I've seen for Bitshares at the moment and he definitely shouldn't be dicking around trying to get a mining rig working which would be a total waste of his talents.  The man is golden.

The bolded part = bingo (not the game we may have to cringe through seeing in our wallets). 
I agree that he might be better utilizing his talents by doing what he does best, but that doesn't mean that this "mining for bitshares" idea couldn't bring in a huge userbase from other cryptocurrencies that are mined. 
As it stands, miners are now having to pay taxes on what they mine, valued at the time when it is mined.  In a Bear Market....we can effectively say that very few miners are going to be happy about paying taxes based on cryptocurrencies that have likely lost a great deal of their value since being mined.  Being able to mine into bitUSD or another, more stable currency helps bitshares by bringing the volume of bitAssets up while also helping miners who are feeling caught in a (bear) trap. 

I don't think we should underestimate the power of that synergy... 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline gamey

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Yeh but it is also more likely people would get far wealthier from working for another company than BitShares and buying BitShares as opposed to working for our blockchain and taking criticism, but it doesn't mean people aren't doing it! :)

Learning all that mining crap to support a POW network and put all that money into various things so you end up with significantly less % BTS doesn't help BTS at all (if you had just bought BTS instead), but does help the mining pools a bit.  So you end up wasting both significant time and money, both which could go to help BitShares. 

I'm just telling rgcrypto that while it sounds neat, it really is only valuable if you are already mining.  Rgcrypto does some of the most valuable work I've seen for Bitshares at the moment and he definitely shouldn't be dicking around trying to get a mining rig working which would be a total waste of his talents.  The man is golden.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline fuzzy

I love the idea of the BitShares Mining Pool paid in BitUSD?

Is it fully operational? Is there a tutorial to show me how to use it?
I would go right away to nicehash.com if I knew how to drive that hashing power over to that mining pool.

Selling pressure on our competitors and Buying pressure on BitUSD.
That's what we need.

You'd be better off buying BTS up directly or you have free/subsidized power. Thats the reality of it.

The option needs to be worked into the blockchain where a small % of the edge is put into bitAssets with most going to the owner of a key.  The owner of the key collateralizes the random number appropriately.  blah blah.. build it and maybe they will come.  Actually even this would suck and would need to be designed well enough and then third party devs have to be able to readily figure out how to apply it.  Maybe.

Yeh but it is also more likely people would get far wealthier from working for another company than BitShares and buying BitShares as opposed to working for our blockchain and taking criticism, but it doesn't mean people aren't doing it! :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

sumantso

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Don't let this ship sink.

Very likely it will sink, so strap yourself and enjoy the ride :)

The tech and philosophy will survive and will ultimately be huge, so lets hope the project which is eventually successful sharedrops on us. In the meantime be glad that we are witnessing and funding one of the greatest innovations of mankind.

Offline gamey

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I love the idea of the BitShares Mining Pool paid in BitUSD?

Is it fully operational? Is there a tutorial to show me how to use it?
I would go right away to nicehash.com if I knew how to drive that hashing power over to that mining pool.

Selling pressure on our competitors and Buying pressure on BitUSD.
That's what we need.

You'd be better off buying BTS up directly or you have free/subsidized power. Thats the reality of it.

The option needs to be worked into the blockchain where a small % of the edge is put into bitAssets with most going to the owner of a key.  The owner of the key collateralizes the random number appropriately.  blah blah.. build it and maybe they will come.  Actually even this would suck and would need to be designed well enough and then third party devs have to be able to readily figure out how to apply it.  Maybe.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:02:03 am by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline fuzzy

I love the idea of the BitShares Mining Pool paid in BitUSD?

Is it fully operational? Is there a tutorial to show me how to use it?
I would go right away to nicehash.com if I knew how to drive that hashing power over to that mining pool.

Selling pressure on our competitors and Buying pressure on BitUSD.
That's what we need.

 +5%
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline rgcrypto

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I love the idea of the BitShares Mining Pool paid in BitUSD?

Is it fully operational? Is there a tutorial to show me how to use it?
I would go right away to nicehash.com if I knew how to drive that hashing power over to that mining pool.

Selling pressure on our competitors and Buying pressure on BitUSD.
That's what we need.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Yes, it is a good point.

Watch out, Powerball! BitShares has another multi-billion dollar industry in its sights.



The picture is quite accurate. I had a quick look, 80%+ of bingo players are woman,  while 90%+ BTS users are male.
So it's a complete mismatch. At this stage we should pursue other types of gambling instead if at all possible.

We should give existing male users recreational gaming and gambling options if we want to grow BitAssets as well as challenge for some of the Bitcoin market share.

Unless you are looking for a way to get a new demographic involved...  :)

I knew that would be the comeback :)
I haven't seen any evidence of new demographics in any alt-coins. This is the same thinking around the 'marketing push' that somehow BitShares would leapfrog into mainstream demographics and scoop up Bitcoiners in the process.  I'm a numbers and facts guy, I know what the demographics for crypto-currency are, I know what worked for Bitcoin and think plays a large role in LTC and DGC volumes and I really love the numbers I'm seeing from dice and casino games.

There have probably been over a 1000 sites that have offered BitCoin gambling options up to now yet very few if any successful bingo options. Bitcoin free market entrepreneurs would have pursued that more if any numbers backed it up.

Edit: I don't mind the idea of proceeds going to charity or even if there are little/no proceeds if it helps promote BitAsset use, I'm just specifically not a big fan of bingo as it doesn't appeal to males. I guess there are legal implications with regard to other options, I still haven't had a chance to listen to the mumble yet.

If you could do a seamless bingo front end website, you might attract that demographic, however I don't know how you'd get round the issue of BitAssets (that market wouldn't be keen.) Our users will play it, if it's the only option they have, so it's better than nothing but is my least favoured option.

There's a great opportunity here to get our existing 90%+ male BTS holders to drive BitAsset growth and even take Bitcoin market share, but the games should replicate & improve upon what's already producing results & has been shown to work unless there is compelling evidence/figures to back up another strategy.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 06:35:29 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline Stan

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In the killing two birds with one stone department, those who were looking for a charity angle and those who want to introduce a little gaming fun may find their interests aligned.

We are not so interested in this making money for the chain directly as we are in causing the usage of bitAssets to go up.

So, creating a game where proceeds go to charity could become a self-licking ice cream cone.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 05:28:04 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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Yes, it is a good point.

Watch out, Powerball! BitShares has another multi-billion dollar industry in its sights.



The picture is quite accurate. I had a quick look, 80%+ of bingo players are woman,  while 90%+ BTS users are male.
So it's a complete mismatch. At this stage we should pursue other types of gambling instead if at all possible.

We should give existing male users recreational gaming and gambling options if we want to grow BitAssets as well as challenge for some of the Bitcoin market share.

Unless you are looking for a way to get a new demographic involved...  :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Yes, it is a good point.

Watch out, Powerball! BitShares has another multi-billion dollar industry in its sights.



The picture is quite accurate. I had a quick look, 80%+ of bingo players are woman,  while 90%+ BTS users are male.
So it's a complete mismatch. At this stage we should pursue other types of gambling instead if at all possible.

We should give existing male users recreational gaming and gambling options if we want to grow BitAssets as well as challenge for some of the Bitcoin market share.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:50:49 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline donkeypong

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Yes, it is a good point.

Watch out, Powerball! BitShares has another multi-billion dollar industry in its sights.



Offline fuzzy

I know several people that play bingo for money multiple times per week.   I know others that play bingo every time they go on a cruise!   It is "entertaining" in the same way as TV.

It is mindless....  but you know what... so are most people ;)

I think a key ingredient of any built-in promotional game is the possibility for an escalating jackpot.  The bigger the jackpot grows the less boring the game becomes.  Heck, I might even play if the jackpot was big enough to buy Apple.  Or at least I would use it to get my wife, mother, and sister interested.   :)

Every big jackpot blowoff is as good as a news release about ShapeShift in terms of its potential to motivate new people to download a wallet.

It's also about generating some liquidity in the BitAsset realm. 

We have numerous ideas for doing that in ways attractive to various constituencies.  Remember convertible BitSilverEagles<->SilverEagles are in the pipeline too. 

Everyone should pursue whatever activity they have the skills to make happen.  Those who succeed are very likely to be rewarded with a delegate slot.

Very good point. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D