Author Topic: Angel Shares Feedback Requested  (Read 78126 times)

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Offline threepoint14

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Crash the price.that's what u want.Good job,bytemaster!You made it!

If we took the original proposal, PTS should go up 10x the current price. Also, Invictus doesn't benefit from protoshares. And it's debatable if it's worked to bring in the talent the project needs to grow. People are willing to work, but they need money.

If they can raise capital and increase PTS stake of BitShares hell yeah it should go up.  I am torn between buying these cheap prices or just waiting for AngelShares and getting them even cheaper while everyone else figures this out.   

Offline dacer

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I would encourage the creation of PTS 2.0 (Angelcoins) that would be another 10% of Bitshares's 21 million, so 20% of total Bitshares would be claimed at the beginning through these two rounds of "venture".

THESE you could use in the way you want, where you let people invest weekly and they get a % of the Angelshares proportional to their Bitcoin or Protoshares contribution (and you should probably accept protoshares at a premium relative to Bitcoins)

2.1 million would be  21 months @ 100k Angelcoins per month - The deal stays the same with Protosharesholders, you get to raise a shitload of money to finance multiple DACs at once and try your new mechanism.

Most importantly, you haven't committed to what you'll do with the other 80%, so when you really solve the problem and have the RIGHT idea you won't have tied yourself down like you're trying to do with this 100% to PTS holders nonsense.


Who besides me would support this?

I'm right with you, Lighthouse.
Bytemaster, I can donate 5% of all my PTS to you if you really need it.

Offline que23

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Crash the price.that's what u want.Good job,bytemaster!You made it!

If we took the original proposal, PTS should go up 10x the current price. Also, Invictus doesn't benefit from protoshares. And it's debatable if it's worked to bring in the talent the project needs to grow. People are willing to work, but they need money.
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Offline bytemaster

Great job on the self sabotage bytemaster, now back to < 0.01 we go.

Yep... but you know what, these short term price movements do not reflect long term value for those who understand what this is about. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

lzr1900

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Crash the price.that's what u want.Good job,bytemaster!You made it!

Offline que23

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Why would we think an upgraded version of momentum wouldn't be minable by cloud or botnets?   Has any actual innovation been made, I must have missed it

I think Lighthouse may have something workable. 

10% for PTS
10% for Angels
80%  Undefined???

What happens to the 80% when they launch BitShares? 


 

The social contract is for 10% of all future DACs. If they suddenly said it was 5%. Then there would be a mutiny. However, they actually offered us a lot more. A lot, lot more. I think it's strange to say we want you to dilute our shares by giving away 80% more shares. How would that help the project?
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Offline GentleGnome

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Great job on the self sabotage bytemaster, now back to < 0.01 we go.

Offline que23

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Why would we think an upgraded version of momentum wouldn't be minable by cloud or botnets?   Has any actual innovation been made, I must have missed it

Lets see what Invictus has proposed:

Decentralized Mining - The Future of BitShares Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=905.msg9065#msg9065

Attempted to decentralize pools with lottery mining that makes mining for profit a non-starter and attempts to encourage solo mining. 

Momentum 2.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=962.msg9752#msg9752

Attempts to fix Momentum 1.0 which had problems with GPU miners gaining a 3x advantage.  MemoryCoin borrowed some of these ideas.

Decentralized Autonomous Countries
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1396.msg14762#msg14762

Points out all of the flaws of mining and the implicit centralization.  Even PTS is centralized in 3 pools right now, 1 of which may even have over 51%.     Anyone committed to decentralization  would have to drop mining based upon this alone.   Anyone clamoring for mining must be selfish and not looking at the big picture that a little profit today will end up controlled at the end of the day.   Those that don't want the rich to buy it up seem to ignore that mining does not prevent the rich, but helps them cement control.

Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & the End of Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.msg11955#msg11955

Introduces a new system of proof-of-stake that bytemaster claims is more secure than mining.

From where I sit this looks like a ton of innovative ideas and real attempts to encourage decentralization and favor the little guy; a true commitment to decentralization above all else.

This guy is like Ron Paul, good ideas, uncompromising, but terrible at delivery.   If you want him to be able to hire people to make up for his flaws then he will need money.

I think Lighthouse may have something workable. 

10% for PTS
10% for Angels
80%  Undefined???

What happens to the 80% when they launch BitShares? 


 
tldr; Momentum 2.0 was released today in MemoryCoin v2. So basically its ready to go now.
By the way if you have Protoshares you can import you wallet for MemoryCoin right now.

Wow, this is game changing news! I wish you were here like 13 pages ago.
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Offline bytemaster

tldr; Momentum 2.0 was released today in MemoryCoin v2. So basically its ready to go now.
By the way if you have Protoshares you can import you wallet for MemoryCoin right now.

Actually, it isn't fair to call it Momentum 2.0 because it doesn't use the algorithm I specified.  It borrows ideas from Momentum 2.0 (such as AES) but does not use population count or collisions how I specified.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

I'm watching this thread... keep up the great discussion and I hope we can find something that works for everyone.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline super3

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Why would we think an upgraded version of momentum wouldn't be minable by cloud or botnets?   Has any actual innovation been made, I must have missed it

Lets see what Invictus has proposed:

Decentralized Mining - The Future of BitShares Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=905.msg9065#msg9065

Attempted to decentralize pools with lottery mining that makes mining for profit a non-starter and attempts to encourage solo mining. 

Momentum 2.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=962.msg9752#msg9752

Attempts to fix Momentum 1.0 which had problems with GPU miners gaining a 3x advantage.  MemoryCoin borrowed some of these ideas.

Decentralized Autonomous Countries
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1396.msg14762#msg14762

Points out all of the flaws of mining and the implicit centralization.  Even PTS is centralized in 3 pools right now, 1 of which may even have over 51%.     Anyone committed to decentralization  would have to drop mining based upon this alone.   Anyone clamoring for mining must be selfish and not looking at the big picture that a little profit today will end up controlled at the end of the day.   Those that don't want the rich to buy it up seem to ignore that mining does not prevent the rich, but helps them cement control.

Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & the End of Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.msg11955#msg11955

Introduces a new system of proof-of-stake that bytemaster claims is more secure than mining.

From where I sit this looks like a ton of innovative ideas and real attempts to encourage decentralization and favor the little guy; a true commitment to decentralization above all else.

This guy is like Ron Paul, good ideas, uncompromising, but terrible at delivery.   If you want him to be able to hire people to make up for his flaws then he will need money.

I think Lighthouse may have something workable. 

10% for PTS
10% for Angels
80%  Undefined???

What happens to the 80% when they launch BitShares? 


 
tldr; Momentum 2.0 was released today in MemoryCoin v2. So basically its ready to go now.
By the way if you have Protoshares you can import you wallet for MemoryCoin right now.

Offline que23

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Link?

Sorry, didn't you read the white paper the put out a couple of weeks ago. http://the-iland.net/static/downloads/TransactionsAsProofOfStake.pdf

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.0

I've read lots and lots of whitepapers including this one.

I don't have the technical background to know if it's an awesome idea. Super3 says people are excited about it and others are looking into implementing it. But I think the heart of the issue is that miners are employees of the DAC. But, it's now not known if the DAC should be wasting resources on them, who are in turn handing their money to the electric company. Invictus wants to redirect those resources to speed up development, create more sites explaining and promoting bitshares and get higher quality videos and presentations and everything else we need to grow.
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Offline threepoint14

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Why would we think an upgraded version of momentum wouldn't be minable by cloud or botnets?   Has any actual innovation been made, I must have missed it

Lets see what Invictus has proposed:

Decentralized Mining - The Future of BitShares Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=905.msg9065#msg9065

Attempted to decentralize pools with lottery mining that makes mining for profit a non-starter and attempts to encourage solo mining. 

Momentum 2.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=962.msg9752#msg9752

Attempts to fix Momentum 1.0 which had problems with GPU miners gaining a 3x advantage.  MemoryCoin borrowed some of these ideas.

Decentralized Autonomous Countries
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1396.msg14762#msg14762

Points out all of the flaws of mining and the implicit centralization.  Even PTS is centralized in 3 pools right now, 1 of which may even have over 51%.     Anyone committed to decentralization  would have to drop mining based upon this alone.   Anyone clamoring for mining must be selfish and not looking at the big picture that a little profit today will end up controlled at the end of the day.   Those that don't want the rich to buy it up seem to ignore that mining does not prevent the rich, but helps them cement control.

Transactions as Proof-of-Stake & the End of Mining
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1138.msg11955#msg11955

Introduces a new system of proof-of-stake that bytemaster claims is more secure than mining.

From where I sit this looks like a ton of innovative ideas and real attempts to encourage decentralization and favor the little guy; a true commitment to decentralization above all else.

This guy is like Ron Paul, good ideas, uncompromising, but terrible at delivery.   If you want him to be able to hire people to make up for his flaws then he will need money.

I think Lighthouse may have something workable. 

10% for PTS
10% for Angels
80%  Undefined???

What happens to the 80% when they launch BitShares? 


   


Offline devilfish

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Well this escalated quickly....i'll read the 7 new pages when I get home but I can only assume this idea is dead in the water now

I don't know what deal you're talking about. There are several ideas on the table. And things aren't that heated. I'm having fun.

Bytemasters initial proposal

Where did I say things were heated?
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Offline phoenix

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off-topic...but this thread is heated.  sometimes its good to remember why we are all here...

And we all know why...but sometimes we need a reminder.  Hope this finds you all well.  I'm holding and buying, because I believe in this community.  F not believing...the only time to not believe is when people stop caring.  Obviously, that is not the case. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf8Fwiy0Bkc

Peace and Love to all you guys.  You have become a family to me.

Thanks fuznuts, I agree that things have become heated, but everyone seems to be staying relatively sane. Merry Christmas to you all, and a happy new year!
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