[POLL] Setting another 10% Bitshares as "Angelshares" to fundraise for DACS

[luckybit]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

I don't see any reason why AngelShares needs to be traded on a blockchain.  Angel Investors should not be day-trading and their funds should be committed until the DACs launche.   With this setup Invictus could simply publish an AngelAddress on the BTC or PTS blockchains and have daily auctions documented right on the blockchain.  This would be public, easily trackable, and a simple script could scrape the bitcoin blockchain to calculate the genesis block for future chains.

Suppose they issued 10,000 AngelShares per day by auction.  This would establish a price and also make it more difficult for large investors to dump in all at once.    Early investors get better prices than later investors assuming Invictus does a good job with the money.  The difficulty of wining shares in the auction every day would increase proportional to demand the success of Invictus.  If they screw up their funds get cut off. 

I think it would be a fun and exciting way to issue new shares in future DACs with almost 0 overhead. 

The daily auctions would create excitement and opportunity for the little guy to take advantage of price dips when the big guys are not buying.  It would be a whole new kind of mining with all the excitement of an auction and the attempts to game the bidding by doing ebay style sniping at the last second. 

Make it fun for the little guy, give him the advantage of being able to follow the day-to-day variance while the big-money is too busy to follow auctions that closely or attempt sniping to get a deal.

They have to be day traded. Without mining the only way to distribute them is by trade. Your options make no sense.  I'm in favor of day trading in this situation because then miners or anyone with anything of value can trade for it.

[lzr1900]

We now need centralised Angelshares? Have you decided on a later date for 'Godshares' yet...   

Mastercoin really got a terrible reputation after their centralised issuance. Now you're going to do it too & worse, you're doing it after you already went the route of PTS funding first! Now I've seen it all! 

To be constructive though, despite the hiccup at the start, people probably feel that Protoshares have been issued in a fairly decentralised way. You would probably be able to decrease the stated Bitshare issuance thereby increasing the value of Protoshares as long as you only made such a huge market moving move ONCE.

(Obviously you could just purchase PTS before the announcement and get more than enough funding that way and as sickening as this move might be in terms of insider trading. It will probably be infinitely better for your reputation than trying to issue Angelshares after having initiated Protoshares. (Whether or not PTS is unaffected or benefits.)

In terms of trying to launch. Another group could just steal your Bitshares platform and start it in a fairer, more transparent and decentralised way and potentially receive massive support from the crypto community that may shun you for going about funding in the way you are suggesting right now.

(Also part of the point of mining is that the shares are issued in a fair, decentralized way, based on maths not human/centralized estimation of value - ie. as in the form of development bounties. Also the miners then bring those shares to the market in a fair decentralised way so that investors feel they are more likely to be paying fair market value not an inflated Quark price because of hoarding/other price manipulation schemes.)

seems 3I didn't care, and honor the Protoshares holders!!I'm angry!

[Pocket Sand]

We now need centralised Angelshares? Have you decided on a later date for 'Godshares' yet...   

Mastercoin really got a terrible reputation after their centralised issuance. Now you're going to do it too & worse, you're doing it after you already went the route of PTS funding first! Now I've seen it all! 

To be constructive though, despite the hiccup at the start, people probably feel that Protoshares have been issued in a fairly decentralised way. You would probably be able to decrease the stated Bitshare issuance thereby increasing the value of Protoshares as long as you only made such a huge market moving move ONCE.

(Obviously you could just purchase PTS before the announcement and get more than enough funding that way and as sickening as this move might be in terms of insider trading. It will probably be infinitely better for your reputation than trying to issue Angelshares after having initiated Protoshares. (Whether or not PTS is unaffected or benefits.)

In terms of trying to launch. Another group could just steal your Bitshares platform and start it in a fairer, more transparent and decentralised way and potentially receive massive support from the crypto community that may shun you for going about funding in the way you are suggesting right now.

(Also part of the point of mining is that the shares are issued in a fair, decentralized way, based on maths not human/centralized estimation of value - ie. as in the form of development bounties. Also the miners then bring those shares to the market in a fair decentralised way so that investors feel they are more likely to be paying fair market value not an inflated Quark price because of hoarding/other price manipulation schemes.)

[Empirical1]

We now need centralised Angelshares? Have you decided on a later date for 'Godshares' yet...   

Mastercoin really got a terrible reputation after their centralised issuance. Now you're going to do it too & worse, you're doing it after you already went the route of PTS funding first! Now I've seen it all! 

To be constructive though, despite the hiccup at the start, people probably feel that Protoshares have been issued in a fairly decentralised way. You would probably be able to decrease the stated Bitshare issuance thereby increasing the value of Protoshares as long as you only made such a huge market moving move ONCE.

(Obviously you could just purchase PTS before the announcement and get more than enough funding that way and as sickening as this move might be in terms of insider trading. It will probably be infinitely better for your reputation than trying to issue Angelshares after having initiated Protoshares. (Whether or not PTS is unaffected or benefits.)

In terms of trying to launch. Another group could just steal your Bitshares platform and start it in a fairer, more transparent and decentralised way and potentially receive massive support from the crypto community that may shun you for going about funding in the way you are suggesting right now.

(Also part of the point of mining is that the shares are issued in a fair, decentralized way, based on maths not human/centralized estimation of value - ie. as in the form of development bounties. Also the miners then bring those shares to the market in a fair decentralised way so that investors feel they are more likely to be paying fair market value not an inflated Quark price because of hoarding/other price manipulation schemes.)

[luckybit]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

I don't see any reason why AngelShares needs to be traded on a blockchain.  Angel Investors should not be day-trading and their funds should be committed until the DACs launche.   With this setup Invictus could simply publish an AngelAddress on the BTC or PTS blockchains and have daily auctions documented right on the blockchain.  This would be public, easily trackable, and a simple script could scrape the bitcoin blockchain to calculate the genesis block for future chains.

Suppose they issued 10,000 AngelShares per day by auction.  This would establish a price and also make it more difficult for large investors to dump in all at once.    Early investors get better prices than later investors assuming Invictus does a good job with the money.  The difficulty of wining shares in the auction every day would increase proportional to demand the success of Invictus.  If they screw up their funds get cut off. 

I think it would be a fun and exciting way to issue new shares in future DACs with almost 0 overhead. 

The daily auctions would create excitement and opportunity for the little guy to take advantage of price dips when the big guys are not buying.  It would be a whole new kind of mining with all the excitement of an auction and the attempts to game the bidding by doing ebay style sniping at the last second. 

Make it fun for the little guy, give him the advantage of being able to follow the day-to-day variance while the big-money is too busy to follow auctions that closely or attempt sniping to get a deal.

I agree. We should have a little people centered design with a focus on making it fun and providing opportunity for advancement. If we do that then we'll attract a wide range of people to the DACs because they'll feel like they have a chance just as anyone else. If there is also the ability to provide services in an organized fashion that can make up for the lack of mining while developing the community up then you introduce a new positive profit strategy for use cases in which people cannot afford to buy Bitcoins or cannot legally obtain them. We must never shut the door on the little guy no matter how big we get because most of us will have been the little guy.

Please remember that we have some people who are not in developed nations and consider a wide array of use cases and profit strategies. We have some people who are homeless in developed nations, some people in all sorts of different financial situations who will want to be a part of this because they believe in it. Inclusion should be a strongly held value for this community.

[que23]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

I don't see any reason why AngelShares needs to be traded on a blockchain.  Angel Investors should not be day-trading and their funds should be committed until the DACs launche.   With this setup Invictus could simply publish an AngelAddress on the BTC or PTS blockchains and have daily auctions documented right on the blockchain.  This would be public, easily trackable, and a simple script could scrape the bitcoin blockchain to calculate the genesis block for future chains.

Suppose they issued 10,000 AngelShares per day by auction.  This would establish a price and also make it more difficult for large investors to dump in all at once.    Early investors get better prices than later investors assuming Invictus does a good job with the money.  The difficulty of wining shares in the auction every day would increase proportional to demand the success of Invictus.  If they screw up their funds get cut off. 

I think it would be a fun and exciting way to issue new shares in future DACs with almost 0 overhead. 

The daily auctions would create excitement and opportunity for the little guy to take advantage of price dips when the big guys are not buying.  It would be a whole new kind of mining with all the excitement of an auction and the attempts to game the bidding by doing ebay style sniping at the last second. 

Make it fun for the little guy, give him the advantage of being able to follow the day-to-day variance while the big-money is too busy to follow auctions that closely or attempt sniping to get a deal.

That's a really cool idea 3.14. Here's my take on Angel Shares: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1429.0

[threepoint14]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

I don't see any reason why AngelShares needs to be traded on a blockchain.  Angel Investors should not be day-trading and their funds should be committed until the DACs launche.   With this setup Invictus could simply publish an AngelAddress on the BTC or PTS blockchains and have daily auctions documented right on the blockchain.  This would be public, easily trackable, and a simple script could scrape the bitcoin blockchain to calculate the genesis block for future chains.

Suppose they issued 10,000 AngelShares per day by auction.  This would establish a price and also make it more difficult for large investors to dump in all at once.    Early investors get better prices than later investors assuming Invictus does a good job with the money.  The difficulty of wining shares in the auction every day would increase proportional to demand the success of Invictus.  If they screw up their funds get cut off. 

I think it would be a fun and exciting way to issue new shares in future DACs with almost 0 overhead. 

The daily auctions would create excitement and opportunity for the little guy to take advantage of price dips when the big guys are not buying.  It would be a whole new kind of mining with all the excitement of an auction and the attempts to game the bidding by doing ebay style sniping at the last second. 

Make it fun for the little guy, give him the advantage of being able to follow the day-to-day variance while the big-money is too busy to follow auctions that closely or attempt sniping to get a deal.

This should also solve all of the regulatory risks that Invictus would face if they launched a new currency that was only signed by them.  Instead they just accept BTC payments and then create software that honors the keys those payments were sent from.  No more risk than they face with BTC, transparent, and enforceable by anyone.

[threepoint14]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

I don't see any reason why AngelShares needs to be traded on a blockchain.  Angel Investors should not be day-trading and their funds should be committed until the DACs launche.   With this setup Invictus could simply publish an AngelAddress on the BTC or PTS blockchains and have daily auctions documented right on the blockchain.  This would be public, easily trackable, and a simple script could scrape the bitcoin blockchain to calculate the genesis block for future chains.

Suppose they issued 10,000 AngelShares per day by auction.  This would establish a price and also make it more difficult for large investors to dump in all at once.    Early investors get better prices than later investors assuming Invictus does a good job with the money.  The difficulty of wining shares in the auction every day would increase proportional to demand the success of Invictus.  If they screw up their funds get cut off. 

I think it would be a fun and exciting way to issue new shares in future DACs with almost 0 overhead. 

The daily auctions would create excitement and opportunity for the little guy to take advantage of price dips when the big guys are not buying.  It would be a whole new kind of mining with all the excitement of an auction and the attempts to game the bidding by doing ebay style sniping at the last second. 

Make it fun for the little guy, give him the advantage of being able to follow the day-to-day variance while the big-money is too busy to follow auctions that closely or attempt sniping to get a deal.

[doesntmatter]

It seems to me that these angelshares, would also be a DAC, so as a holder of protoshares i am also entitled to angelshares, which will also get me bitshares???

[kokojie]

So basically you are floating another 10% of bitshares by issuing Angelshares? this is in addition to the 10% allocated to PTS

[que23]

No, i'm talking about how Bitshares are eventually allocated.  We signed on with Protoshares being 10% and mining being 90% with a total supply of 21 million.

1) All chains Invictus launches will be derived from ProtoShares with a 1:1 mapping and 10% of the ultimate money supply of that chain.
2) ProtoDomains may Split from ProtoShares prior to the Launch of DomainShares so that it can be traded and valued separately.   
3) Keyhotee ID is not a currency, there is no way to map ProtoShares into Keyhotee ID (the name chain)
4) There will be many BitShares based chains, not one, and all of them will be 1:1 with ProtoShares
5) We reserve the right to release ProtoShares v2 that honors 100% of ProtoShares v1 with 100% of the money supply allocated. 
6) Associated Press, DAC would honor ProtoShares

Exceptions to the ProtoShares honoring would be if we decided to release a true competitor to be used as a money-only coin and not a trading platform.  In this case we may choose to honor the initial positions in ALL existing *-coin chains proportional to their market cap. 

I want to make it very clear that at no time will we 'reset the clock' for a new chain and owning ProtoShares today does get you ownership in everything we do in the future either directly or indirectly.

This post above was posted by you and written by bytemaster. I found it odd that you haven't posted it here, since you think the contract has been broken. There isn't one mention of 90% anywhere. In fact, it says they have the right to release v2.

Invictus doesn't sell bitshares or protoshares or angel shares. This is really odd that people would vote for them to do that. Really odd.

[Lighthouse]

No, i'm talking about how Bitshares are eventually allocated.  We signed on with Protoshares being 10% and mining being 90% with a total supply of 21 million. 

[que23]

I'm not sure you're being fair here. You're talking about the mining of Angel Shares, not ProtoShares or BitShares. Also, I don't know the mechanics of the mining. Also, I'm not sure if people coming to this thread know this is what it means.

[Lighthouse]

Why are people voting for Invictus to sell protoshares or bitshares. Invictus doesn't sell Protoshares, and Bitshares aren't even out yet, nor will they be sold by invictus. I think there's a real lack of understanding in the community about what this project is.

Because there is no difference between being the exclusive mining power renter and selling the resulting coins created.  The only difference is you buy based on a fixed price with a variable return, that's still buying and selling.

This was unclear because they used the mechanism of mining, but monopolized the output.

[que23]

Why are people voting for Invictus to sell protoshares or bitshares. Invictus doesn't sell Protoshares, and Bitshares aren't even out yet, nor will they be sold by invictus. I think there's a real lack of understanding in the community about what this project is.